Advice for production sound with 744T

[Enos]

Hi guys!
I'm doing production sound recording for a short film in December and am putting together a list of desired equipment for the producers to include in their budgetting.
They are shooting with two cameras and for most of the film there is only two characters speaking at one time. My plan of action is hiring out a Sound Devices 744T, two booms + 2 radio mics. I'd have radio mic coverage of each actor at any time plus two booms covering either actors, specifics or simply as a stereo take of the shot. My question is regarding using the 744T. Obviously I need a mixer to use the additional two channels as the 744 only has two preamps. However, cosidering the two preamps on the machine have digital trims, would it be wise or is it common to run your mics through a mixer with analog gain trims before going into a sound devices?

This question is not only regarding this shoot. I am planning to invest in a 722 soon adn would like to know how many of you use this with a separate mixer or wether going straight into the SD preamp is fine?

[philper]

Originally Posted by Enos

Hi guys!
I'm doing production sound recording for a short film in December and am putting together a list of desired equipment for the producers to include in their budgetting.
They are shooting with two cameras and for most of the film there is only two characters speaking at one time. My plan of action is hiring out a Sound Devices 744T, two booms + 2 radio mics. I'd have radio mic coverage of each actor at any time plus two booms covering either actors, specifics or simply as a stereo take of the shot. My question is regarding using the 744T. Obviously I need a mixer to use the additional two channels as the 744 only has two preamps. However, cosidering the two preamps on the machine have digital trims, would it be wise or is it common to run your mics through a mixer with analog gain trims before going into a sound devices?

This question is not only regarding this shoot. I am planning to invest in a 722 soon adn would like to know how many of you use this with a separate mixer or wether going straight into the SD preamp is fine?

The preamps in the 744 are very good. That said, I find it more convenient to use a small outboard mixer: more connections, easier to mix on. If you really want to connect all your sound sources to the 744 directly you can do it (most wireless receivers have line-level out and thus can feed the 744's line ins directly, leaving the 2 mic pres for the boom mics), but then you lose quick level control of the wireless. For a simple project I'd recommend using a small mixer and mixing your booms to one output channel and your lav mics to the other. On scenes where you use only 2 booms or only two lavs or one of each you can split them out. Otherwise you will need a 4 channel mixer with direct outs (SD 442 etc) and will have no mixed track for editorial or dailies. An new alternative is the SD 552--5 inputs with a built in 2 track recorder--that plus the 744 would be a very versatile combination.

Philip Perkins

[marclop]

Philip got you covert. From my experience I use the 442 and the 744 together. I feed from the 442 to the 744(channel 3 line in) for boom, because I like to have some extra boost and channel 1 and 2 of the recorder for the lavs.

best regards,
Marco

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Enos

However, cosidering the two preamps on the machine have digital trims, would it be wise or is it common to run your mics through a mixer with analog gain trims before going into a sound devices?

The two trims are analog, so don't worry, they're perfect for the two booms. I can't say anything for sure about feeding the RX directly into line-ins (as I've only recorded through 442), but I'm almost certain it would work just fine if you set the RX out carefully. The only problem I see would be the monitoring inconvenience, as you would have to record them lower than the booms to be safe from overloading.

[Enos]

Thanks for these replies! I have been asking around and am getting a lot of useful information. I think, budget permitting, I might go for the 744T with a 442. I could then mix the lavs to one channel the booms to another and output to the camera as well. Would that sound logical?

Also, how common would it be to record straight to camera through a 422?

[eastwestaudio]

Enos, the serious advantage of running a 442 and 744t together is that you can record up to 4 isos (isolated tracks) on the 744t (sent from the 442), and send a stereo mix of those same tracks to multiple cameras from the 442.

Use the 4 inputs of the 442, send the direct outs to the 4 inputs on the 744t - then mix away on the 442 for a stereo send to camera(s)

If you are hindered by budget - then you can rent a SD mix-pre instead and run 2 signals into that and then into inputs 3 and 4 on the 744t. Much better level control.

You can send a line level out from the 744t of up to as many tracks as you want, but you will pretty much be unable to "mix" them (provide level control during the takes). Still a good way to go if editorial will survive with a less than perfect scratch track.

-Greg-

[eastwestaudio]

Originally Posted by Enos

Thanks for these replies! I have been asking around and am getting a lot of useful information. I think, budget permitting, I might go for the 744T with a 442. I could then mix the lavs to one channel the booms to another and output to the camera as well. Would that sound logical?

Also, how common would it be to record straight to camera through a 422?

Also: don't do the above if you don't have to (ie, mixing the booms to one track, lavs to another) if you have the ability to record them to their own individual tracks! you'll save yourself a lot of work on set - and a lot of potential problems in post. you should hope that all you'll have to do is mix the multiple inputs for your camera sends.

as per running a 442 straight to camera - it's very common in the ENG/doc world - because there's no time/budget for someone to deal with the isolated audio tracks in post.

-Greg-

[philper]

Originally Posted by eastwestaudio

Also: don't do the above if you don't have to (ie, mixing the booms to one track, lavs to another) if you have the ability to record them to their own individual tracks! you'll save yourself a lot of work on set - and a lot of potential problems in post. you should hope that all you'll have to do is mix the multiple inputs for your camera sends.

as per running a 442 straight to camera - it's very common in the ENG/doc world - because there's no time/budget for someone to deal with the isolated audio tracks in post.

-Greg-

Even if you don't mix the mics for recording you need to be able to MONITOR them mixed in order to be able to hear if there is a problem when they are combined (ie phase). Remember that even though you may not be mixing the mics together on the set they will EVENTUALLY have to be combined in some fashion in the mix. The time to fix mic position problems is during RECORDING not during POST.

Philip Perkins

[Enos]

Thanks once again for all this information! Budget is still pending so I will have to wait and see how much I can spend but if at all possible I will try and get the 442 AND 744T and record isos on the 744 and a 2 channel mixdown to camera! Sounds like the perfect option :)

[Andrew Mottl]

Hey Enos,
is that you man? How is the mix going?


As for the 744T: I did a one man-small-team-half-docu-style production in summer. There was no small mixer that could have augmented the 744, so I used the lav-receivers' ability to output line level signal. Those then fed the line inputs of the 744. As I lacked an assistant I was happy to know my levels were safe (used the 744's line input trims) and spent my time booming and following the action. So it would work, as long as the receivers do output high (line) level audio. Worth checking out before shoot should you not find a 442.

Good luck and fun!

[Enos]

Hi Andrew! The mix is doing well.. Final week of mixing is on the go! Its going well..slowly but surely :)