Pro Tools in Post-- a couple questions

[Nu Mixer]

I'm a wiz at Pro Tools doing music sessions, but don't have as much experience in post.

I see a job posting for a "Pro Tools operator" that I'm interested in applying for.

Coming from the music world, how difficult would it be for me to learn the following:

- Switching and conforming between frame rates
- dialog syncing
- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

Any dialog on this MUCH appreciated!

[Sventeck]

You're technical pro tools skills, will translate well, as in the actual opperation of the software.
The techniques, however, are different in post.

- Switching and conforming between frame rates

If this is refering to pulling up or down sessions or mixes, yes this will take a second to wrap your head around... this was the most confusing thing for me when I first started... That said, there are some excellent resources out there that can make it relatively painless

- dialog syncing

not sure what that's referring to... could be a number of things...

- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

no problem... details of it depend on the facility...

hope some of that was useful

[Jfriah]

All the advice I can offer: individual learning curves may vary. Start cutting/working on something now--take a movie trailer (for own personal use) or something and start playing.

As for frame rates---Haha, ask them "WHY?"---you shouldn't 'have to' switch and conform between frame rates unless something happens/something screws up. But it is part of the game, yes. And can be tough or easy(-ier).

Mostly now I try to insist on working in 23.976fps if that's what the project is, and having the video house do final tape conversions altogether.

But it is into and from PAL where you start going "huh???"---that and the 4% pitch change if they go that route.
-Jeff

[SDDP]

Originally Posted by Nu Mixer

I'm a wiz at Pro Tools doing music sessions, but don't have as much experience in post.

I see a job posting for a "Pro Tools operator" that I'm interested in applying for.

Coming from the music world, how difficult would it be for me to learn the following:

- Switching and conforming between frame rates
- dialog syncing
- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

Any dialog on this MUCH appreciated!

If you fully know your way around protools and audio in general, then post should be an easy transition. It will take time to learn the nuances that apply to film and picture.
I started out as a Recording Engineer/Musician using Protools when it was Session 8 back in 1993. Got offered a job in film for just syncing Dialogue to the production track. 16 years later I ended up owning a Post Production Studio.

I suggest reading the basic books like what you can find at Amazon under:audio post production
Read all of Bob Kats books/comments/youtubes.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by Nu Mixer

I'm a wiz at Pro Tools doing music sessions, but don't have as much experience in post.

I see a job posting for a "Pro Tools operator" that I'm interested in applying for.

Coming from the music world, how difficult would it be for me to learn the following:

- Switching and conforming between frame rates
- dialog syncing
- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

Any dialog on this MUCH appreciated!

First of all, I wouldn't tell people you are a wiz at protools. In the last 12 or so years, I have not met one person who says they are wiz/expert at protools and actually is. You are just setting up a scenario for you to make yourself look bad. I know quite a few people who have had this happen to them and have been fired because of it. Especially since you are coming from a music background, be honest with whoever you are interviewing with. If you only know how to use LE, then state that. If you've only ever used PTHD in a music situation, then state that. There are certain things in protools that are used for post that most music people don't know about (like paste to selection, session start time, and sync points, for example). So, being a wiz with protools in a music scenario doesn't mean you'll be moving at the speed of light in a post scenario... at least not at first.

The two big things I see a lot of music people get thrown by... getting used to editing without the grid. learning how to work with timecode.

Being able to use protools is the easy part. In the end it's just a tool. But the techniques you are employing to work with picture are the more important things to know, regardless of the DAW you do them on.

[TVPostSound]

As for frame rates---Haha, ask them "WHY?"---you shouldn't 'have to' switch and conform between frame rates unless something happens/something screws up.

Yeah, that will get him the gig.

The ad sounds like repurposing work. Mostly conforming from NTSC to PAL, and usually after a cut down (this film was edited to run in the time alloted)!!!

Its not for the weak of heart, or someone coming from music.

Good luck.

[TVPostSound]

Oh, one more thing with machine laybacks.

DO NOT DO AN ASSEMBLE EDIT!!! ONLY INSERT EDIT AUDIO.

[ggegan]

Just go for it. The only way you're going to get the experience is by actually doing it.

When I was first starting out I bullshitted my way into a lot of gigs that I had no business getting involved in, but I did my best, asked a lot of questions and tried like hell to pull off. Sometimes I came off like a hero and more often I wound up looking like a chump, but I learned something every time and made certain that I never made the same mistake twice. Eventually, if you have half a brain and you are determined to master the process, you will be at least as proficient as half the people I deal with on a regular basis who make a pretty good living at it.

[Lipflap]

Originally Posted by Nu Mixer

I'm a wiz at Pro Tools doing music sessions, but don't have as much experience in post.

I see a job posting for a "Pro Tools operator" that I'm interested in applying for.

Coming from the music world, how difficult would it be for me to learn the following:

- Switching and conforming between frame rates
- dialog syncing
- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

Any dialog on this MUCH appreciated!

None of these jobs require significant Pro Tools mastery, but each has its own traps, and all of these procedures are, to one extent or another, black arts. Even the "Machine control with Pro Tools" assignment seems like a simple PT set-up procedure. But you'd best have someone in your Rolodex whom you can turn to if the machine gets weird.

As Gary Gegan said, go for the gig, but get some real, in-person, help as to how it's really done. Being in over your head is something we've all done; being in over your head without a life jacket is unnecessarily thrilling!

Good luck,

[toolskid]

If you wanna work in post, better brush up on your people skills first and tools later, you'll deal with more clients/colleagues than you could ever imagine in music!!

[Nu Mixer]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I went ahead and applied for the position. Obviously, I'm not professing to be a "Pro Tools wiz" on my cover letter! I just wanted to point out HERE that I've been using the program daily for over 10 years, so I should be fairly comfortable with it.

[RichV]

Chasing tape and laying back is decently easy once you've done it a couple times in PT. It really is, as mentioned, all about sitting down with machine control and using it.

Editorial wise, it requires a hugely different skill-set. Post is all about efficiency and speed, so every kind of shortcut for snapping, conforming, and generally moving regions is something you want to be a master at. Nudging by frame. Ways of selecting exactly what you want and need to. Etc. Conforming and editing dialog is a very transparent art that requires finesse in all aspects - ADR to picture was easier to get spot on when DV Toolkit had VocAlign. I'll never understand why Digidesign took it away. It's all relative to the project anyway though, whether you're trying to better match a slightly off ADR line or you're squeezing in a ton of VO in to a promo that really didn't have enough time for it (using slight pitch/time, cutting takes together to sound as natural as possible).

Framerates can be a nightmare to someone coming from strictly music. Just read up on everything you can regarding framerates, the differences, and why. It's insanely useful to understand the video side of post when working in post sound to avoid further technological nightmares.

[stilts27]

Originally Posted by Nu Mixer

I'm a wiz at Pro Tools doing music sessions, but don't have as much experience in post.

I see a job posting for a "Pro Tools operator" that I'm interested in applying for.

Coming from the music world, how difficult would it be for me to learn the following:

- Switching and conforming between frame rates
- dialog syncing
- Laying back to tape
- Machine control with Pro Tools

Any dialog on this MUCH appreciated!

I see you came across the craigslist AD in LA....good luck...you will be going up against experienced Operators in LA w/ experience.

[SurveillanceP]

Originally Posted by TVPostSound

Oh, one more thing with machine laybacks.

DO NOT DO AN ASSEMBLE EDIT!!! ONLY INSERT EDIT AUDIO.

eeeee!

I've seen this.

[juniorhifikit]

Protools skills are kind of a basic/given. If you know how to run the program you're probably fine there (though I learn a new trick now and then from my A-list pals). It's the client issues, and knowing how to deal with every f'd up situation that pops up while you're in the hot seat. A whole different set of problems from the music world. Let's face it, if it was easy and there were no problems, it wouldn't be work.

Blah blah blah, I guess I'm saying it's experience and problem solving skills that are important - keep your head.

[SaschaP]

Etch-A-Sketch is on point.

I thought I "knew" Pro Tools until I switched from music to post. I was operating around 10% as fast as the veterans around me. It's also a bit strange to go from mixing a 3 min song for 2 days with well recorded audio, to mixing a 43min TV show in 2 days with poorly recorded audio.

One thing that doubled my speed was assigning all of the tools (trim, grabber, etc..) to the buttons on a 6 button mouse. Save one button for delete and your left hand almost never needs to leave the left side of the keyboard...