LKFS

BIGBANGBUZZ · 8th September 2009

I'm just a about to start mixing a series in my home studio that specifies the mix be an average of -24 LKFS.

Is the only meter out there to measure this the Dolby Media Meter or LM100.
will LEQa be near enough?

Cheers

M

nathand · 8th September 2009

You need the DMM or the LM100 with the latest firmware upgrade.

Were you thinking of trying LEQa with Phasescope? Many here have said it is a no go.

Sventeck · 8th September 2009

Quote:

Were you thinking of trying LEQa with Phasescope? Many here have said it is a no go.

LEQa will get you in the ballpark in some cases, but does not translate directly to LKFS.
Media Meter or LM100 seems to be the only options...

nathand · 8th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

I'm just a about to start mixing a series in my home studio that specifies the mix be an average of -24 LKFS.

Is the only meter out there to measure this the Dolby Media Meter or LM100.
will LEQa be near enough?

Cheers

M

If you felt like rolling the dice, there is this to consider....

Taken from NBCU Television Network - HDTV TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION - July 2008, for 2008/2009 Season

"Use ITU-R.BS.1770 (Otherwise known as LKFS) as the measurment tool or LEQ-A if ITU-R.BS.1770 is not available."

BIGBANGBUZZ · 9th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathand

If you felt like rolling the dice, there is this to consider....

Taken from NBCU Television Network - HDTV TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION - July 2008, for 2008/2009 Season

"Use ITU-R.BS.1770 (Otherwise known as LKFS) as the measurment tool or LEQ-A if ITU-R.BS.1770 is not available."

Here in Australia, I have got by using a peak and VU meter.

If the Digi LEQ A is no good, is there any other plugin options?

BIGBANGBUZZ · 9th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

Here in Australia, I have got by using a peak and VU meter.

If the Digi LEQ A is no good, is there any other plugin options?

Just checking does the DMM come with both XP and OSX Installers ?

Steven1145 · 9th September 2009

There's also the TC Electronic LM5D. Either for PTHD or for System6000 users.

danijel · 9th September 2009

Still no first-hand reports on the free Orban meter?

ORBAN Loudness Meter

It has the ITU BS.1770 loudness metering (stereo), but it would require a separate PC with calibrated inputs if you're on a mac.

Maybe it is still a cheap solution, especially if you have an old PC lying around.

nathand · 9th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by danijel

Still no first-hand reports on the free Orban meter?

ORBAN Loudness Meter

It has the ITU BS.1770 loudness metering (stereo), but it would require a separate PC with calibrated inputs if you're on a mac.

Maybe it is still a cheap solution, especially if you have an old PC lying around.

I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.

BIGBANGBUZZ · 10th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathand

I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.

I'll give the Orban a go, I'll be able to take a feed from my mixer and feed it into my sound card. I may need a 3rd monitor to view it though.. as my other 2 LCDs are taken up using Protools. thanks.

Audio_Vision · 10th September 2009

The T.C. Electronic LM5D is an excellent meter if you are looking for ITU-R. B.S. 1770 metering. It gives you a long term number and a short term segment meter, which I like beter than the short term number display on the Media Meter/LM100. It has a peak warning that is user selectable too.

danijel · 10th September 2009

Seems like BS.1770 is taking on progressively:

Apple - Downloads - Audio - AudioLeak
BBC - OpenSource - Broadcast Audio Production Tools

Seems like they both allow logging and variable integration time....

lee_k · 14th March 2010

Edited - Orban one already mentioned!

iluvcapra · 14th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by danijel

Seems like BS.1770 is taking on progressively:

Apple - Downloads - Audio - AudioLeak
BBC - OpenSource - Broadcast Audio Production Tools

Seems like they both allow logging and variable integration time....

I've used AudioLeak before, its only catch is that it doesn't work in real time -- you have to mix the audio down and then run the audio thru the program, and it spits out a chart and report. The Pro version does do LKFS though.

rorban · 16th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathand

I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.

We have just posted v2 of the Orban meter, which supports "manual" operation, BS.1770-2 loudness metering, Loudness Range analysis, reconstructed peak metering, and more. ORBAN Loudness Meter

Bob Orban

Pedantic Sound · 16th March 2012

Has anyone tried the new Waves LM?

Nate Hoffman · 16th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedantic Sound

Has anyone tried the new Waves LM?

Yes, I use it regularly and it's great. No 5.1 Audiosuite though.

Winter · 18th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rorban

We have just posted v2 of the Orban meter, which supports "manual" operation, BS.1770-2 loudness metering, Loudness Range analysis, reconstructed peak metering, and more. ORBAN Loudness Meter

Bob Orban

Great news! Thanks a lot for posting this, I'm going to try it right now!

BIGBANGBUZZ · 18th March 2012

I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu

tom_lowe · 18th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu

Why have you stopped using LKFS? VU won't give you short-term loudness, integrated loudness or the LRA. Also, I'm not sure -23LKFS would always equal -3VU as the VU meter doesn't use the weighting algorithm therefore it would react to frequencies differently. I'm guessing you got that figure using a 1KHz sine wave?

Also, LUFS/LKFS is designed to be used on the whole programme, not just dialogue.

It also certainly won't give you True Peak metering which more and more broadcasters are now implementing.

nucelar · 18th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu

Good luck with QC. :P

Dan Smith · 18th March 2012

+1 for WLM
At work we have the Media Meter but since we got WLM in the update of our Waves bundle I've been using that instead. I really like it. Did a few shows with both it and the Media Meter and the readings are spot on. Plus you get other things like true peak. I really like the read outs of the WLM. Highly recommend it.

Winter · 18th March 2012

Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.

Dallas Taylor · 18th March 2012

I started on the LM100, then moved on to the DMM, then moved to VMeters, now I'm using the WLM. It's simple, cheap & even has deliverable presets built in.

BIGBANGBUZZ · 18th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucelar

Good luck with QC. :P

Never failed one :p

tpad · 18th March 2012

A V.I. (volume indicator) which everyone insists on incorrectly calling a "VU" meter, is useful for real time balancing and monitoring of average program levels, but it won't give you LKFS without a lot of visual averaging. So, you need to use some other instrumentation to verify that you are meeting the long-term LKFS specification. On uncompressed speech, if you peak at 0 VU with zero aligned on tone to -20 dBFS, then the long term average speech level will probably be around -27 dBFS. If you are working with bass heavy material and use A-weighting, then you will get erroneous results in comparison with LKFS, since it is basically flat down to 100 Hz whereas the A-weighting is heavily rolled off.

tom_lowe · 19th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.

Best out there, IMO.

pethenis · 19th March 2012

I use this:

Flux:: sound and picture development

Runs flawless, practically no load on my PT machine ( I meter over Ethernet on a spare macbook with screen connected), looks realy nice and does it all!

**Geert van den Berg** · 19th March 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.

Yes we use their plugins and the loudness batch processor as well.

brew · 19th March 2012

Orban has a free app on his website that meters just about every standard.

ORBAN Loudness Meter

8th September 2009	#1
BIGBANGBUZZ Gear addict Joined: Sep 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 369 Thread Starter	LKFS I'm just a about to start mixing a series in my home studio that specifies the mix be an average of -24 LKFS. Is the only meter out there to measure this the Dolby Media Meter or LM100. will LEQa be near enough? Cheers M

8th September 2009	#2
nathand Gear addict Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 379	You need the DMM or the LM100 with the latest firmware upgrade. Were you thinking of trying LEQa with Phasescope? Many here have said it is a no go. __________________ Nathan Dubin Margarita Mix de Santa Monica www.lastudios.com

9th September 2009	#8
danijel Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 1,732	Still no first-hand reports on the free Orban meter? ORBAN Loudness Meter It has the ITU BS.1770 loudness metering (stereo), but it would require a separate PC with calibrated inputs if you're on a mac. Maybe it is still a cheap solution, especially if you have an old PC lying around. __________________ Danijel Milosevic

18th March 2012	#22
Dan Smith Gear Head Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Provo, UT Posts: 58	+1 WLM +1 for WLM At work we have the Media Meter but since we got WLM in the update of our Waves bundle I've been using that instead. I really like it. Did a few shows with both it and the Media Meter and the readings are spot on. Plus you get other things like true peak. I really like the read outs of the WLM. Highly recommend it.

18th March 2012	#24
Dallas Taylor Gear maniac Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Washington DC Posts: 172	I started on the LM100, then moved on to the DMM, then moved to VMeters, now I'm using the WLM. It's simple, cheap & even has deliverable presets built in. __________________ DALLAS TAYLOR CAS/MPSE /// Sound Designer/Mixer @ Defacto \\\ Twitter • Facebook

9th September 2009	#7
Steven1145 Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 501	There's also the TC Electronic LM5D. Either for PTHD or for System6000 users.

10th September 2009	#11
Audio_Vision Gear interested Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Baltimore Posts: 13	The T.C. Electronic LM5D is an excellent meter if you are looking for ITU-R. B.S. 1770 metering. It gives you a long term number and a short term segment meter, which I like beter than the short term number display on the Media Meter/LM100. It has a peak warning that is user selectable too.

14th March 2010	#13
lee_k Gear interested Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 5	Edited - Orban one already mentioned!

16th March 2012	#16
Pedantic Sound Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2012 Location: NYC Posts: 288	Has anyone tried the new Waves LM?

18th March 2012	#23
Winter Gear maniac Joined: May 2008 Location: Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain) Posts: 163	Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.

18th March 2012	#26
tpad Gear nut Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 107	A V.I. (volume indicator) which everyone insists on incorrectly calling a "VU" meter, is useful for real time balancing and monitoring of average program levels, but it won't give you LKFS without a lot of visual averaging. So, you need to use some other instrumentation to verify that you are meeting the long-term LKFS specification. On uncompressed speech, if you peak at 0 VU with zero aligned on tone to -20 dBFS, then the long term average speech level will probably be around -27 dBFS. If you are working with bass heavy material and use A-weighting, then you will get erroneous results in comparison with LKFS, since it is basically flat down to 100 Hz whereas the A-weighting is heavily rolled off.

19th March 2012	#28
pethenis Gear maniac Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 260	I use this: Flux:: sound and picture development Runs flawless, practically no load on my PT machine ( I meter over Ethernet on a spare macbook with screen connected), looks realy nice and does it all!

19th March 2012	#30
brew Gear realist Joined: Mar 2004 Location: FL Posts: 202 1 Review written	Orban has a free app on his website that meters just about every standard. ORBAN Loudness Meter

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