BIGBANGBUZZ
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#1
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
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LKFS

I'm just a about to start mixing a series in my home studio that specifies the mix be an average of -24 LKFS.

Is the only meter out there to measure this the Dolby Media Meter or LM100.
will LEQa be near enough?

Cheers

M
#2
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
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You need the DMM or the LM100 with the latest firmware upgrade.

Were you thinking of trying LEQa with Phasescope? Many here have said it is a no go.
#3
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Were you thinking of trying LEQa with Phasescope? Many here have said it is a no go.
LEQa will get you in the ballpark in some cases, but does not translate directly to LKFS.
Media Meter or LM100 seems to be the only options...
#4
8th September 2009
Old 8th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
I'm just a about to start mixing a series in my home studio that specifies the mix be an average of -24 LKFS.

Is the only meter out there to measure this the Dolby Media Meter or LM100.
will LEQa be near enough?

Cheers

M

If you felt like rolling the dice, there is this to consider....

Taken from NBCU Television Network - HDTV TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION - July 2008, for 2008/2009 Season

"Use ITU-R.BS.1770 (Otherwise known as LKFS) as the measurment tool or LEQ-A if ITU-R.BS.1770 is not available."
BIGBANGBUZZ
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#5
9th September 2009
Old 9th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathand View Post
If you felt like rolling the dice, there is this to consider....

Taken from NBCU Television Network - HDTV TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION - July 2008, for 2008/2009 Season

"Use ITU-R.BS.1770 (Otherwise known as LKFS) as the measurment tool or LEQ-A if ITU-R.BS.1770 is not available."
Here in Australia, I have got by using a peak and VU meter.

If the Digi LEQ A is no good, is there any other plugin options?
BIGBANGBUZZ
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#6
9th September 2009
Old 9th September 2009
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
Here in Australia, I have got by using a peak and VU meter.

If the Digi LEQ A is no good, is there any other plugin options?
Just checking does the DMM come with both XP and OSX Installers ?
#7
9th September 2009
Old 9th September 2009
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There's also the TC Electronic LM5D. Either for PTHD or for System6000 users.
#8
9th September 2009
Old 9th September 2009
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Still no first-hand reports on the free Orban meter?

ORBAN Loudness Meter

It has the ITU BS.1770 loudness metering (stereo), but it would require a separate PC with calibrated inputs if you're on a mac.

Maybe it is still a cheap solution, especially if you have an old PC lying around.
#9
9th September 2009
Old 9th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
Still no first-hand reports on the free Orban meter?

ORBAN Loudness Meter

It has the ITU BS.1770 loudness metering (stereo), but it would require a separate PC with calibrated inputs if you're on a mac.

Maybe it is still a cheap solution, especially if you have an old PC lying around.

I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.
BIGBANGBUZZ
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#10
10th September 2009
Old 10th September 2009
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathand View Post
I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.
I'll give the Orban a go, I'll be able to take a feed from my mixer and feed it into my sound card. I may need a 3rd monitor to view it though.. as my other 2 LCDs are taken up using Protools. thanks.
#11
10th September 2009
Old 10th September 2009
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The T.C. Electronic LM5D is an excellent meter if you are looking for ITU-R. B.S. 1770 metering. It gives you a long term number and a short term segment meter, which I like beter than the short term number display on the Media Meter/LM100. It has a peak warning that is user selectable too.
#12
10th September 2009
Old 10th September 2009
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#13
14th March 2010
Old 14th March 2010
  #13
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Edited - Orban one already mentioned!
#14
14th March 2010
Old 14th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
Seems like BS.1770 is taking on progressively:

Apple - Downloads - Audio - AudioLeak
BBC - OpenSource - Broadcast Audio Production Tools

Seems like they both allow logging and variable integration time....
I've used AudioLeak before, its only catch is that it doesn't work in real time -- you have to mix the audio down and then run the audio thru the program, and it spits out a chart and report. The Pro version does do LKFS though.
#15
16th March 2012
Old 16th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathand View Post
I'm running them side by side right now for a test.

The Orban is very cool, don't get me wrong. But since it's real-time I'm feeling like I have to do the average myself. I like how the DMM just spits me a number, done.

If M plans on mixing through the meter I would try out the Orban for sure. The reading on both meters seems to be the same.

Since LKFS appears to be an "unlocked" algorithm, if you will, I'm hoping that it can inexpensively included in all workstations.
We have just posted v2 of the Orban meter, which supports "manual" operation, BS.1770-2 loudness metering, Loudness Range analysis, reconstructed peak metering, and more. ORBAN Loudness Meter

Bob Orban
#16
16th March 2012
Old 16th March 2012
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Has anyone tried the new Waves LM?
#17
16th March 2012
Old 16th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic Sound View Post
Has anyone tried the new Waves LM?
Yes, I use it regularly and it's great. No 5.1 Audiosuite though.
#18
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorban View Post
We have just posted v2 of the Orban meter, which supports "manual" operation, BS.1770-2 loudness metering, Loudness Range analysis, reconstructed peak metering, and more. ORBAN Loudness Meter

Bob Orban
Great news! Thanks a lot for posting this, I'm going to try it right now!
BIGBANGBUZZ
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#19
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu
#20
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu
Why have you stopped using LKFS? VU won't give you short-term loudness, integrated loudness or the LRA. Also, I'm not sure -23LKFS would always equal -3VU as the VU meter doesn't use the weighting algorithm therefore it would react to frequencies differently. I'm guessing you got that figure using a 1KHz sine wave?

Also, LUFS/LKFS is designed to be used on the whole programme, not just dialogue.

It also certainly won't give you True Peak metering which more and more broadcasters are now implementing.
#21
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ View Post
I quit using LKFS..
Just pre mix your Dia using a VU meter.

-23 LKFS = -3vu
Good luck with QC. :P
#22
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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+1 WLM

+1 for WLM
At work we have the Media Meter but since we got WLM in the update of our Waves bundle I've been using that instead. I really like it. Did a few shows with both it and the Media Meter and the readings are spot on. Plus you get other things like true peak. I really like the read outs of the WLM. Highly recommend it.
#23
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.
#24
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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I started on the LM100, then moved on to the DMM, then moved to VMeters, now I'm using the WLM. It's simple, cheap & even has deliverable presets built in.
BIGBANGBUZZ
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#25
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar View Post
Good luck with QC. :P
Never failed one :p
#26
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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A V.I. (volume indicator) which everyone insists on incorrectly calling a "VU" meter, is useful for real time balancing and monitoring of average program levels, but it won't give you LKFS without a lot of visual averaging. So, you need to use some other instrumentation to verify that you are meeting the long-term LKFS specification. On uncompressed speech, if you peak at 0 VU with zero aligned on tone to -20 dBFS, then the long term average speech level will probably be around -27 dBFS. If you are working with bass heavy material and use A-weighting, then you will get erroneous results in comparison with LKFS, since it is basically flat down to 100 Hz whereas the A-weighting is heavily rolled off.
#27
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.
Best out there, IMO.
#28
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
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I use this:

Flux:: sound and picture development

Runs flawless, practically no load on my PT machine ( I meter over Ethernet on a spare macbook with screen connected), looks realy nice and does it all!
#29
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
Anyone using the NuGen plugins? I've tried the demo and I like it, but I did'nt try any other option.
Yes we use their plugins and the loudness batch processor as well.
#30
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
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