Pro Tools Video Format

[ergalthema]

What video settings would you recommend for putting a 90 minute movie in Pro Tools? I only have a lousy 480x270 .m4v file to work with, and I need to transcode it for Pro Tools. So, I'm thinking I might as well make it a file that uses the least CPU.

MacBook Pro
2.8GHz Core 2 Duo
4GB DDR3
Pro Tools v8.0

Any help is very appreciated.

[nlc201]

DV/DVCPRO quicktime for standard def. DVCPRO HD for High Def. The most stable codecs I've found if you're not using a third party video device. If you are using an output device, use the codecs they recommend for that particular setup. Be sure to get a calibration (Sync Check is good for this) setting to compensate for your display's latency.

[musikwerks]

Quicktime - DV codec.

[ergalthema]

Even if the video I'm working from is smaller than DV?

[Sventeck]

It's not about size, it's about how pro tools works with the codec.

Also Interframe vs. Intraframe compression. (which is why h.264 is not good for frame accuracy or cpu load)

more on inter vs intra is below

Inter frame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Intra-frame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Jfriah]

Personally, been using MJPEG-A for awhile. But DV as well.
But here's a question:

What are folks using to ensure 23.976 framerates stay as such?

(MPEG Streamclip, Export to Quicktime >>> Compression: Apple DV/DVCPRO at 100% quality retains "23.98")

-Jeff

[hociman]

Originally Posted by Jfriah

What are folks using to ensure 23.976 framerates stay as such?

(MPEG Streamclip, Export to Quicktime >>> Compression: Apple DV/DVCPRO at 100% quality retains "23.98")

-Jeff

23.976 and 23.98 are the same frame rate. The difference is simply in the the number of significant digits being used to represent the frame rate. Manufacturers have taken advantage of this to put their own branding (marketing) on it. I wish they would all just settle on 23.98 and be done with it. If you use HDCAM SR or D-5, the LCD displays on those decks refer to it as 23.98.

[Jfriah]

Originally Posted by hociman

23.976 and 23.98 are the same frame rate. The difference is simply in the the number of significant digits being used to represent the frame rate. Manufacturers have taken advantage of this to put their own branding (marketing) on it. I wish they would all just settle on 23.98 and be done with it. If you use HDCAM SR or D-5, the LCD displays on those decks refer to it as 23.98.

That's why I put the quotes around "23.98." Respectfully, it is NOT the same frame rate, unfortunately, not technically (.976 frames per second vs .98 frames a second, over time...does not equate). But I know what you're saying: it IS the 'same thing' in common use. Reality is: humans are lazy and if they can say nine-eight instead of nine-seven-six, they'll do it.

As for LCD displays, or, heck, displays WITHIN SOFTWARE---knowing computers like to handle large numbers, they couldn't just go without rounding-up and ditching a digit place, huh? (laugh)

And riddle me this: is "23.98" the same as "24," then? Well according to Pro Tools opening Final Cut OMFs, yes. Wrong!

Anyway...

-Jeff

"I wish they would all just settle on TWENTY FIVE and be done with it."

[Naptalene]

DV

Pain with the file size for such bad looking pic but it works. Also run into a problem in streamclip using a DV stream (PAL) Audio gets fried coming into tools. Now exporting QT with DV Pal codec and ref. audio off picture comes in no problem.

Nothing seemed to change on the system......slightly off topic but hey

[ergalthema]

The director made a few changes to the edit and I'll be getting a new video soon.

Does DVCPRO HD use a lot more CPU than DV? And I'm kind of confused because Pro Tools seems to be processing the video when I import - is it converting it or copying it, or is it just extracting the audio?

The last video (DV) had a timecode burn than covered some of the action. However, DV seemed to be a different aspect ratio and there were black bars above and below to look like they could have had timecode burn there. Basically, how should the editor burn the timecode on the picture?

Help is very appreciated!

[musikwerks]

Black bars at the top and bottom simply mean the original picture was 16:9 and it has been reformatted to 4:3 Letterbox. No problem.

If the TC burn in was useful for you last time, ask the editor to burn it in again in the area now left black by the bars. That way you still get your reference without losing image.

A video file that is encoded in HD will tax the system higher than a regular standard def DV file. It depends on you CPU of course, but if you're only watching it back on your PC monitor just leave it DV. It's very likely it's ungraded and heavily compressed from the offline edit process. Having it in HD will just make it worse to look at.

[ergalthema]

Thanks. The weird thing is, the video doesn't look 16:9 letterboxed in 4:3 - it just looks like a different size of widescreen. I'll work on figuring that out.

But it sounds like I probably want some kind of letterboxing with the TC burned in the space, in a DV QT.

Thanks again.

[DynaForte]

480x270 - This is 6:9

So if that original file had bars, then it's a "landscape" view they're filming in.


As for video in ProTools - If you're NOT using an external box to put the picture on a seperate screen, it doesn't matter so much.

I would say go with the lowest quality you can stand to look at while you work. Or, the highest quality PT will run smoothly with.

Turn on "block view" for the video track, it will save resources.

Also, you should ask for window burn always - this way you can be sure PT matches the timecode in the video, and can then spot things based on this.

Otherwise, it's possible something could go weird.

[ergalthema]

Interesting.

I'm second-guessing the 4:3 thing - it might actually be 4:3 letterbox. I wonder if some people do that intentionally to have TC outside of the picture area.

I don't have the DV Toolkit, and the workflow is a bit sloppy, but the TC burn is still good for reference.

[ergalthema]

For lower-budget films, is it common at all for TC burn to be in the black part of a letterbox?

Is DV a common format for video editors when they're editing offline?

[robwaz]

DV is a common format for offline edits. As to the time code burn ins, putting burn ins in the letterbox is common for dailies in all films, low budget or high. It can be video time code, keycode (for film), or info like VT#, labroll, or running time.

[Lipflap]

Originally Posted by bradhebert

... is it common at all for TC burn to be in the black part of a letterbox?

Get a timecode burn-in, even if you have to make it yourself or arm wrestle the picture department for it. A burn-in serves as a "hard" reminder of your timecode, and it's a quick confirmation that your picture and timeline are in sync. A burned-in TC also helps you to know that you're really aligned with the video frame.

Plus, it's just easier to read the TC (for you and especially to others in the room) when it's right on the picture.

[musikwerks]

If it has black bars top and bottom then it is 4:3 letterbox. (Unless it is a 16:9 frame size and it has black bars, then it's a 2.33:1 super 35mm frame squeezed down to 16:9... this is unlikely at your stage of things but not totally out of the question.)

I have worked on films where all the rushes were 4:3 letterbox even though the film was shot 2.33:1 (super 35mm). Hero and House of Flying Daggers come to mind. In the "black bars" area was all the keycode info from the camera. Again, to save costs, rushes were transferred to Beta SP. Lo-Res pics and Offline edit go hand in hand. DV is just a codec. In Avid it could be 10:1, 20:1 compression rates. 10:1 is ok... 20:1 is awful. For whatever reason, digidesign/Avid spec DV codec.

All films have tight budgets. It's not so much an issue now but back in the day a 9GB Avid hard drive used to cost $4k (in Australia) so space was at a premium. Hence all productions did their creative cut at lo-res so they could store the whole project on a few drives and then did a film matchback/conform. Still happens that way a lot today too, even though storage is super cheap now in comparison.

"Landscape" and "Portrait" are not at all relevant when it comes to motion film (although it is common for VFX elements to rotate the camera 90 degrees to utilise the whole frame for things like chroma keys). A Hollywood feature will almost always shoot Super 35mm and a low budget will almost always try and do the same if finances permit. Things are changing with the RED, Viper, Genesis cameras etc but it is still based on the 35mm model.

But, for clarity, can you post a screen grab? Even if it's just a picture of the 2-pip? Even if you want to PM me a link or something.

[dwaynedelario]

We only revert to DV for compatibility on the scoring stage now, it really looks awful. For HD in Pro Tools, avid assistants have been giving us Apple Photo JPEG and it looks great, plays flawlessly in PTHD.

[ergalthema]

Thanks. Sorry, I've missed a few posts. Sometimes email notifications don't work for me. It's another issue, but I've never understood "you may receive other replies, but you won't be notified until you visit the thread again". If I visit the thread from the link in the email, but I'm not logged into gearslutz, does it know I visited the thread? I'd like to have an option to receive notification for every reply.

I'll try to get a screen shot when I get a chance.

Also, I don't know how a 24fps video works editing offline as DV, but I'm assuming FCP can take care of it ok. The DV encode I got had TC burn that was 24fps. Yeah, it's a bit of a mess.

[robwaz]

You can set up a sequence of DV video in Final Cut at 23.98 and export a quicktime this way as well.

As for the 24fps burn-in, it may be that the DV video you received is at 29.97 but the picture department put a 24fps (most likely actually 23.98) window on picture so you can reference the same time code locations as them.

[deemkaa]

correct me if I'm wrong and also I apologize if this is a newbie question that shouldn't be placed here :
it doesn't really matter that I'm working on sound in PT with a DV video even though it's going to be "aligned" in FCP to a 23.98 fps video, or does it ? is it still gonna be in sync or not ? if not what can I do ?