Web Video Levels and EQ?

[Seedhay]

Hi all,

I am a composer who often gets jobs for broadcast. I am never really involved in the final mixdown, but just submit my music masters and leave the rest to guys like yourself.

However, I have a job now where the client is asking that i do the final mix with the VO and my music track. The spot will be a web video.

I am used to mastering my music with a ceiling of -0.2. Do i need to lower the ceiling for this application? Are there standard low and hi filters that are used to accommodate web play? Any other tips I should consider?

Thanks!

[Whitecat]

There are no real rules for web delivery. Usually I'll do a TV-ready mix, but generally make it a touch louder as that's what the client generally wants (say, -6 dbFS peaks rather than -10). I'll often limit it a little harder than usual too to compensate for small, tinny speakers.

But really, you can do whatever you like! No special EQ or level requirements at all.

[Seedhay]

thanks terminal3!!!

So, even though there are no specific guidelines, a seling of -0.2 would, in general, be considred too hot, huh?

I guess I'll shoot for -6 like you said.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Seedhay

thanks terminal3!!!

So, even though there are no specific guidelines, a seling of -0.2 would, in general, be considred too hot, huh?

I guess I'll shoot for -6 like you said.

It's pretty hot, yeah! I don't go that high just because I HATE it myself when I put on web videos and they blow my head off right from the start, it's aggravating!

[Seedhay]

Great!

Since you said you usually go for a TV-type mix, and correct if I'm wrong, but don't TV mixes often roll off the lows between 50-100 hz and also the highs above 15k-16k? Seems like that would make sense especially when considering computer speakers... thoughts on that?

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Seedhay

Great!

Since you said you usually go for a TV-type mix, and correct if I'm wrong, but don't TV mixes often roll off the lows between 50-100 hz and also the highs above 15k-16k? Seems like that would make sense especially when considering computer speakers... thoughts on that?

I don't roll off anything on the master buss - sometimes on individual tracks, yes - dialogue at around 80hz for example, but never the highs either unless there's something problematic with a stem.

[Seedhay]

ok, thanks again... much appreciated!thumbsup

[eastwestaudio]

seedhay,

get yourself some cheap $20 desktop speakers to check your mixes on. find the best of both worlds between those and your regular monitors.

and i'll second terminal's advice about the levels.

-greg-

[Seedhay]

Originally Posted by eastwestaudio

seedhay,

get yourself some cheap $20 desktop speakers to check your mixes on. find the best of both worlds between those and your regular monitors.

and i'll second terminal's advice about the levels.

-greg-

thanks!

[Rick Sanchez]

Hey Seed,

I concur with Terminal and usually deliver my web mixes with peaks around -6 dBfs. I have done some web trailers for video games where they want them loud and in those cases I set a brick wall at -1dBfs and give myself a bit more room for dynamics.

[Seedhay]

Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez

Hey Seed,

I concur with Terminal and usually deliver my web mixes with peaks around -6 dBfs. I have done some web trailers for video games where they want them loud and in those cases I set a brick wall at -1dBfs and give myself a bit more room for dynamics.

thanks!

[dmitri]

Hi frinds. I mix most of the time for theatrical, but just this week I happened to do a web trailer version of the trailer of my recent feature. I limited at -2 dBFS, average RMS around -17dBFS and the subjective loudness appeared comparable to many trailers at Apple's site. BUT I noticed that all those trailers feel like they have been heavily processed with some stereo field enhansers (which are almost forbidden in theatrical film sound). Is this a common practice in sound for web and what's with mono compatibility?

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by chsound

and what's with mono compatibility?

Have you ever known a computer that can handle web video to have a mono speaker output?

[Mundox]

Iphone, Ipod touch etc..
Also most desktops' like Mac Pros internal speakers are mono, aren't they?

[Five Flags Sound]

Getting the mix just right is important, and there's some great advice here on that topic already.

But if there's any other thoughts I could contribute, it might be compression artifacts. Keep in mind that depending on how it will be integrated (and ultimately digitally compressed), there might be significant "digital garble". This is especially true if it's playing back in a flash environment. To get an idea of the effect, you could experiment by uploading your mix as a video file into a video sharing site and listen to the artifacts, particularly at lower-resolution playback. Once you get a feel for how this affects your audio, you can make better decisions about the final mix.

Of course if it's playing back in the browser in a quicktime player, etc - this shouldn't really be much of an issue. Mix as you normally would for broadcast work.

Good luck,
Andy

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Iphone, Ipod touch etc..
Also most desktops' like Mac Pros internal speakers are mono, aren't they?

I've never met a single person who uses the internal speakers on their mac pro. The iPod Touch has no internal speaker at all. The iPhone might be an exception but I've never seen anyone use the speaker... maybe those annoying kids on the top decks of buses that I want to punch.

Seriously: while mono compatibility might be a requirement in TV, I don't even consider it with web stuff. Widen away!!

[dmitri]

Originally Posted by terminal3

Seriously: while mono compatibility might be a requirement in TV, I don't even consider it with web stuff. Widen away!!

Thanks for your explanation!

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by terminal3

I've never met a single person who uses the internal speakers on their mac pro.

It's good to quickly check these kind of recordings through it. I do it.

The iPod Touch has no internal speaker at all.

Weird, because mine has it.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Weird, because mine has it.

Mine doesn't. Is that a 2nd-generation feature maybe?

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by terminal3

Mine doesn't. Is that a 2nd-generation feature maybe?

Yes, 2nd gen has it.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by smurfyou

Yes, 2nd gen has it.

Cool, I stand half-corrected. I suppose the more relevant query though, is - do you ever use it?

[Mundox]

I swear I do..

Quite often. (youtube etc.)

But the point is, mono is still a reality and should be complied to IMO.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Mundox

I swear I do..

Quite often. (youtube etc.)

But the point is, mono is still a reality and should be complied to IMO.

Maybe. I guess that I just never bother an actual round of checking when web is the only delivery (what little TV I do ALWAYS gets checked, of course!) - anyway, it hasn't been a problem yet. Doesn't mean it won't be in the future, of course.

[rhumphries]

Originally Posted by Mundox

I swear I do..

Quite often. (youtube etc.)

But the point is, mono is still a reality and should be complied to IMO.

Actually I use the speaker on my iPhone often too because the (proprietary) headphones break in about a week.

I noticed last week when watching a web video on my PC that some stuff was panned really wide. Later in the day when I was showing the video to someone else using my iPhone the stuff that had been panned to one of the sides was missing.

-Richard

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Mundox

Iphone, Ipod touch etc..
Also most desktops' like Mac Pros internal speakers are mono, aren't they?

The only thing the desktop speaker is good for is to check that the thing is booting properly if you have a problem.

[Rick Sanchez]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

The only thing the desktop speaker is good for is to check that the thing is booting properly if you have a problem.

True, but I do have clients who have approved mixes on Macbook Pros using the built-in laptop speakers while talking on a speakerphone. Frightening...yes.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez

True, but I do have clients who have approved mixes on Macbook Pros using the built-in laptop speakers while talking on a speakerphone. Frightening...yes.

Boy, that sounds like the sort of thing that could bite you in the a**...

Them: "We just heard our mix on TV and it's terrible!!!"

You: "But you approved it!! Remember??!?"

[Mr_David]

Originally Posted by terminal3

Boy, that sounds like the sort of thing that could bite you in the a**...

Them: "We just heard our mix on TV and it's terrible!!!"

You: "But you approved it!! Remember??!?"

I've always had to laugh when a client on the phone asks me to hold the phone up to the speakers to hear a mix. Then they comment on it!

[Frank S.]

Originally Posted by Mr_David

I've always had to laugh when a client on the phone asks me to hold the phone up to the speakers to hear a mix. Then they comment on it!

I did almost an entire major political campaign this past season this way. Ridiculous. The client would direct VO and approve mixes via speakerphone.

[mbvoxx]

We use the same video and audio for web as we do for TV.