Film music jobs

[studiogear]

Hi guys, I 'd like to know if there are any interesting companies who look for composers to compose music for films and maybe get to a point to make a living out of it in the future if they like the work....anyone knows something about this?

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by studiogear

Hi guys, I 'd like to know if there are any interesting companies who look for composers to compose music for films and maybe get to a point to make a living out of it in the future if they like the work....anyone knows something about this?

It doesn't quite work like that unfortunately. In a perfect world it would. But there are way too many people looking to get in and not enough spots/work for everyone.

There are different ways you can go depending on what your end goal is. If you want to write original score TO picture (meaning you are hired to write music specifically for an individual film), your best bet is to try and get an entry level gig with a well-known (or at least known within the industry) composer. Be his assistant, studio manager, secretary, orchestrator, copyist, etc for long enough and you'll start writing for him.

A composer I know started as an assistant at Mike Post's studio. After a couple years, mike promoted him to studio manager, a few years after that mike started letting him compose a few small pieces for TV shows Mike was working on... eventually after about a decade, mike started giving him whole shows to write (but mike was still putting his name on them). After a while, mike decided to move out of the studio he was in, and the composer I know "quit" and took over the studio space and has been writing on his own now for a while.

Another example of that are some of the guys that have come up through Hans Zimmer's ranks. Harrison Gregson-Williams is one that comes to mind, but there are a bunch of other guys that have worked at Hans' studio and over time were given writing duties and eventually were able to branch off on their own. I also heard that Danny Pelfrey started out writing/subbing for Snuffy Walden for a while before he started on his own...and so on...

It's not easy, it takes A VERY LONG TIME (decades), and you have to put up with a lot of crap from a lot of people for a very long time. I know someone who worked over at Zimmer's studio for about a year before he quit. He just couldn't take the hours, the attitudes, and to some degree the verbal abuse.

If you are just looking to write music at home and give it to someone and let them try to place it in TV and films, then you are looking for either an agent or a publishing company/library. you can go to Production Music Association and see a very large list of companies that do this sort of thing. I've made a few other posts on GS about these companies, what they look for (I work for one of them), the best ways to submit music, etc. Just be aware, these companies get bombarded by people wanted to get their music placed in TV shows/commercials/etc. You HAVE to do your homework and research each company you are going to be submitting to. If your music doesn't "match" the way they format their music, your CD will get tossed out before it ever reaches the CD player. If your music doesn't really match what they are doing (fidelity, format, target market, etc), don't bother wasting their time. If you notice you do a particular style of music that they don't have any/a lot of, and you think you can take your exisiting music and edit it to match their format, then you might have a good chance of getting music into their library.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I work with a local composer. He is very good and can knock out film scores in his sleep. He works days in the insurance business and nights and weekends he does his film scoring. Recently we found a client that wanted to use him on a project. We asked him for an estimate. The estimate was way over what our client was willing to spend so he did not get the job. I think besides talent you need the ability to quote projects realistically if you want to get work especially if you are just starting out. I think Etch-A-Sketch brought up some very good points. Location makes a big difference on how much work you will get in the film world even though you can compose almost anywhere being nearer the action is probably a good idea.

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Location makes a big difference on how much work you will get in the film world even though you can compose almost anywhere being nearer the action is probably a good idea.

That can really make a big difference. It has to do with the point that you are surrounded with the environment you are looking for.

[chrisso]

It's a highly competitive business and lots of people want to get into it.
Since the pop/rock side of things has gone belly up, a lot of great musicians with long resumes are knocking on the film company doors.
I agree with the pay your dues by taking a lot of crap comment.
Even the successful guys I know still take a lot of crap.
There is a lot of politics and you need to have good people skills, keep a cool head when everyone else is having a tantrum.
I think it helps to be in a city where post production is done, this is where the producers and directors will be and these are the people you need to run into.
If you get a scoring job, the film execs will want to meet with you on numerous occasions and here your work in progress. The most they are probably willing to accept is a one hour car ride to your studio. Alternatively you may have to visit them on set or in the edit room at short notice.

[drBill]

It's all about personal relationships....

And location.

Can't develop personal relationships very easily if you're in Iowa and the directors, producers and editors are all in Hollywood....

[BVoss]

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

A composer I know started as an assistant at Mike Post's studio. After a couple years, mike promoted him to studio manager, a few years after that mike started letting him compose a few small pieces for TV shows Mike was working on... eventually after about a decade, mike started giving him whole shows to write (but mike was still putting his name on them). After a while, mike decided to move out of the studio he was in, and the composer I know "quit" and took over the studio space and has been writing on his own now for a while.

I'm not sure I'd write that. Could be libelous.

admins, feel free to delete this message.

[ruy]

Originally Posted by BVoss

I'm not sure I'd write that. Could be libelous.

admins, feel free to delete this message.

this is actually a very common practice...

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by ruy

this is actually a very common practice...

yup and par for the course. It usually falls under the "work for hire" terms of the copyright law I believe.

people like John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Mike Post, David Vanacore, etc all have people that write under them/for them. They really don't hide it. It's much more like an apprenticeship. But, if the moderators want to delete it, go right ahead.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Maybe I should also point out that when writing for another composer such as I have alluded to... your name still appears on the cue sheet as composer or co-composer and you make ascap/bmi royalties... But in the end credit scroll it says "music by [Your Boss]" and doesn't mention you.

I was told a lot of people that get to that level of notoriety in composing incorporate their own name. So saying "Music by Hans Zimmer" would be no different than saying "Music by Megatrax" or "Music by EMI", etc... They are referring to the corporate entity, not the individual...although in the end they are really one in the same. But who knows...

[gsilbers]

yep its frekin hard. ive been trying for a while. the trick is.. and coincidentally enough, from mike post; is to do something else while being a film composer. there was a thread around of a poll taken and seems that most composers did something else and composed on the side and slowly transition into it.
i am an Audio engineer and have done a few scores and synth programming for others.
its slow, definitely couldnt earn a livving doing that.
bad side also is that my regular job doenst let me practice as much as id like.

as for the composer being in the credits, you just look at diferent composers imdb profile and youll see that they are in the credit but producers will only put one, they are not going to put 1m2 by HZ and 2m2 by greg hanson.. etc

go to wikipedia,search for remote control productions, in there youll see al the cats working for hanz.. or for themselves but in that studio. search each one on imdb and youll see they have credit on pirates of the carribean, etc etc

[Led]

Originally Posted by ruy

this is actually a very common practice...

+1 - I started as an assistant/aprentice to a successful composer here.
When I started doing some of the background cues, smaller jobs etc, it still came under his umbrella. He was the known composer and it was his company that secured the projects, so - his name on the credits. I did get my split of the royalties.
Mike Post would have been awesome to work for. So many great themes.
Quite a clever guy.

[E-Murder]

Originally Posted by drBill

It's all about personal relationships....

And location.

Can't develop personal relationships very easily if you're in Iowa and the directors, producers and editors are all in Hollywood....

This is very true!

[astronmr20]

I am a pretty experienced musician, writer, and recordist. Even my dayjob is music-related. About 5 years ago I decided I really wanted to write music for film. I know a lot of people in L.A. in the business, and am close to folks who write for TV and commercials for a living.

However, only this year did I finally land a gig.. and it's an independent film that does not pay much. It's actually a pretty good film though, and I'm having fun and learning a lot, and making some contacts.

Still, I can see where it will take me a long time to get to where I could even support myself with this, and even at that it would have to involve a "break," no matter how good I may be.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

Maybe I should also point out that when writing for another composer such as I have alluded to... your name still appears on the cue sheet as composer or co-composer and you make ascap/bmi royalties... But in the end credit scroll it says "music by [Your Boss]" and doesn't mention you.

Sorry Derek, but you're dead wrong on that. In many circumstances, the main composer is so paranoid or egotistical that they do not want ANYONE (other than the ghost writer of course) to know that they didn't write 100% of every note of the score. Sad, but true. Cue sheet or screen credit obviously blow that scam out of the water. So don't expect to get it.

If you're lucky enough to ghostwrite for a composer that gives you cue sheet or screen credit, consider yourself to be VERY fortunate.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by drBill

Sorry Derek, but you're dead wrong on that. In many circumstances, the main composer is so paranoid or egotistical that they do not want ANYONE (other than the ghost writer of course) to know that they didn't write 100% of every note of the score. Sad, but true. Cue sheet or screen credit obviously blow that scam out of the water. So don't expect to get it.

If you're lucky enough to ghostwrite for a composer that gives you cue sheet or screen credit, consider yourself to be VERY fortunate.

Really? I think to say I'm "dead wrong" is a very strong opinion. It varies from one situation to the next. In my position here at Megatrax, I get to work with a lot of these "assistant" or "ghost" writers because we hire them to write for us. From what I've been told most of the time they are listed on the cue sheets and get paid for the work they did whether as sole writer or co-writer with the main composer. But I'm sure that isn't always the case. There probably are guys out there that take all the credit, you are right. But to say EVERYONE take all the credit is just as "dead wrong" as someone saying everyone shares all the credit.

I did hear of one of the most famous composers in the business recently trying to "buy" back the credits for the music on a HUGE film he was hired to score. He was paying very large sums of money to the people he allowed to write for him so that he could remove their names from the cue sheets. There was such a buzz about the film that there were rumors the film would win a lot of Oscars, so the "credited" composer wanted to get the oscar nom and award (if it won) without having to share the credit.

This industry is never black or white... but many shades of grey. To say I'm "dead wrong" is a little over the top, no?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

Really? I think to say I'm "dead wrong" is a very strong opinion. It varies from one situation to the next. In my position here at Megatrax, I get to work with a lot of these "assistant" or "ghost" writers because we hire them to write for us. From what I've been told most of the time they are listed on the cue sheets and get paid for the work they did whether as sole writer or co-writer with the main composer. But I'm sure that isn't always the case. There probably are guys out there that take all the credit, you are right. But to say EVERYONE take all the credit is just as "dead wrong" as someone saying everyone shares all the credit.

Sounds like maybe we're both parsing words, eh?? You said:

"your name still appears on the cue sheet as composer or co-composer and you make ascap/bmi royalties..."

Since I've ghosted a bunch, I think I'm fairly qualified to answer this one.

If you had said "normally......" or "often", I'd have agreed. But my experience is 100% the opposite direction of yours, in that I normally do NOT get cue sheet credits (and by definition royalties). Even your subsequent explanation that cue sheet credit is given "most" of the time is - IMO - misleading and inaccurate (industrywide). Bottom line, it is as you said - it depends on the composer of note and every situation is unique. If they are fair and self confidant, then your scenario is what will happen. If they are paranoid, or have a self image problem, then chances are that the ghost writers name will not be on the cue sheets.

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch

This industry is never black or white... but many shades of grey. To say I'm "dead wrong" is a little over the top, no?

Agreed. That's why I said:

If you're lucky enough to ghostwrite for a composer that gives you cue sheet or screen credit, consider yourself to be VERY fortunate.

Maybe a little overstated, but I stand by my opinion. Sorry for any confusion. We're both right, but the way I read your post was so matter of fact, that I knew it would mislead young writers into thinking that it's a given. And it's not.

Cheers,

bp

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by drBill

We're both right, but the way I read your post was so matter of fact, that I knew it would mislead young writers into thinking that it's a given. And it's not.

Cheers,

bp

I agree. And I apologize if I it seemed like I was implying credit is always given.

In my first post I purposely left out any mention of getting credits because I know it doesn't always happen. In my second post I should have said
"you can..." instead of "your name is...".

[drBill]

thumbsupthumbsup

[fallforward]

Check out this website:

MS-PRO :: Created By Music Supervisors For Music Supervisors


you can setup a profilie on there and it is 100% free, and it is the only website like this that is actually legit (IMO).

Good Luck man!
Robby

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by drBill

It's all about personal relationships....

And location.

Can't develop personal relationships very easily if you're in Iowa and the directors, producers and editors are all in Hollywood....

Absolutely true!

[taturana]

+1 on location, and personal relationships.

[saturninus]

This is a field I'm interested in too. I'm taking classes and have done two cues for an assignment.

[ruy]

this is one of the most competitive fields in the industry, a lot of well known, talented musicians will work for credit in very demanding projects, just to get their foot in the door.

if you watch the match stick men making-off, you'll see that even hans zimmer has to put up with stuff.

i would recommend you go find talented film students or beginning film makers and work with them. focus on the story and the emotion, be humble and leave your ego behind...