Wave Rider Plug-in

[nucelar]

Hey, just found out this plug-in:
Welcome to Wave Rider! | Wave Rider

I hope it's not too good, or we can all quit our jobs now
Jokes aside, this could be a major time saver for voice over tracks and similar. Have yet to try it out, will report back on real-world usefulness.

from their page:

Welcome to Wave Rider!

Wave Rider is a virtual fader controller plugin for Digidesign Pro Tools®.
It's a unique RTAS plugin that detects audio signal level on the inserted channel, and controls the fader movements with the following features:
ride

In this default mode, Wave Rider's level detecting algorithm automatically raises or lowers the fader level to maintain a user selectable output level by writing volume automation on the timeline. User can then alter the volume automation as needed. Makes maintaining dialnorm levels a breeze! Check out the Application Notes page for example scenarios.

Duck

This function will lower the signal of a target track by a user selectable amount if there's signal present on the inserted track. Narration and announcements over music as heard on radio channels rely on keyed compressors with poor results, now cooler with Wave Rider.

Park

This is a function you'll find in Automatic Mixer boxes. The faders are parked at a user defined low level when there's little signal, and they jump up to full output when there's strong signal present, maintaining a steady output level. Particularly useful in situations where there's a lot of mics open and you want to have the cleanest signal without much background noise.

[joemeek]

XP??

[nucelar]

Xp is on the works i read somewhere on their site...
I just realized from the docs this operates as a "virtual, automatic HUI" controller, which you set up in the peripherals window. And it operates only in realtime :( I wished it would scan the audio and write the automation data quicker...
Aargh.. it does not work with command8... bummer

[RecRoom]

Looks pretty cool and only $75. Might be a good cheap replacement for a rack of Shure Automixers.

[jahtao]

oh man, some days I could do with slapping one of these on every channel, and having a few precious moments outside work

[Rick Sanchez]

Originally Posted by nucelar

Hey, just found out this plug-in:
Welcome to Wave Rider! | Wave Rider

I hope it's not too good, or we can all quit our jobs now
Jokes aside, this could be a major time saver for voice over tracks and similar. Have yet to try it out, will report back on real-world usefulness.

from their page:

Welcome to Wave Rider!

Wave Rider is a virtual fader controller plugin for Digidesign Pro Tools®.
It's a unique RTAS plugin that detects audio signal level on the inserted channel, and controls the fader movements with the following features:
ride

In this default mode, Wave Rider's level detecting algorithm automatically raises or lowers the fader level to maintain a user selectable output level by writing volume automation on the timeline. User can then alter the volume automation as needed. Makes maintaining dialnorm levels a breeze! Check out the Application Notes page for example scenarios.

Duck

This function will lower the signal of a target track by a user selectable amount if there's signal present on the inserted track. Narration and announcements over music as heard on radio channels rely on keyed compressors with poor results, now cooler with Wave Rider.

Park

This is a function you'll find in Automatic Mixer boxes. The faders are parked at a user defined low level when there's little signal, and they jump up to full output when there's strong signal present, maintaining a steady output level. Particularly useful in situations where there's a lot of mics open and you want to have the cleanest signal without much background noise.

Sounds like a great way to get a completely boring and generic sounding mix quickly. How lazy can you get?

[soundboy]

Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez

Sounds like a great way to get a completely boring and generic sounding mix quickly. How lazy can you get?

As opposed to having your clients brow beat you into making one!

[Sonsey@mac.com]

Just tried the demo on a lark... Can't say I was terribly impressed. Mind you there are a lot of features and I didn't take time to tweak a ton... But if I have to spend loads of time tweaking the thing, I'd rather just Mix anyway!

[gsharp]

Cool concept but it needs a longer look-ahead or something. I'm trying it on a very dynamic singer right now and it doesn't react fast enough.

[Mundox]

Hi guys, I am one of the people responsible for this plugin. I did not code it but I came up with the concept, and designed it. It literally came out a few days ago. It's good to see it already made it to the forum. I thought I just chime in and clear a few things for you.
First, I am an engineer too, and the last thing I would want to create is something that would make me redundant. (although I would become rich and would not need a job anyway, hmmm) It still needs someone with skills to operate it.

This thing is designed to give engineers a break in the studio, not to make them lazy. Something that will take on the mundane fader movements, and give you more time and head space to actually get more creative. Basically the default mode with one or two adjustments will get you up and running. Although there are the other features like ducking to get a full mix going, this will take more time to set up. If you are willing to let Wave Rider do all the work, then you need to create an extensive template.
The full mix thing is really a secondary feature, the main purpose of this plugin is to optimize individual levels. But those options are there, and they work.

nucelar

To make it work with Command 8 you need to disable it from the peripherals. Unfortunately this is a HUI thing. Also, the fact that it can only do real time mixing is because of the same reasons Pro Tools can only bounce real time.

joemeek
Unfortunately XP won't be available anytime soon.

Sonsey

To get a decent result from this plugin you actually do need to read the manual.
I admit it will take a few tries to get used to how it works, but once you are comfortable with it, it is as easy as 1-2-3. The main thing to watch is the silence level. I tend to use it around -31, depending on other plugins that have gain before Wave Rider. I would have an Req and Rcomp before with few dbs gain. Also, I tend to use it more on the lazy side of the behaviour. And don't forget to slide your automation back by around 7 frames. This gives the most accurate result. This is crucial because the RMS sensing mechanism can not read ahead. To get the real time result I duplicate the tracks I am Wave Riding and shift them back by 7 frames, and let them control the faders of the un-shifted tracks.

I imagined something that would make my life easy, and it's realized. I hope some of you guys take advantage of it too.
I am here to answer any questions you may have.

cheers

Vedat Kiyici

Welcome to Wave Rider! | Wave Rider

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by gsharp

Cool concept but it needs a longer look-ahead or something. I'm trying it on a very dynamic singer right now and it doesn't react fast enough.

I just missed your post..
You need to shift the automation by around 300ms back in time to get the optimum result.

Cheers
Vedat

EDIT: Latest version is real time if you set up the playback engine to 1024 samples.

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by Mundox

I just missed your post..
You need to shift the automation by around 300ms back in time to get the optimum result.

Cheers
Vedat

Thanks Mundox. I did that and its working MUCH better. Great in fact.

[soundfx]

I'm glad to see someone finally created this, as its an idea I had a few years ago for a plugin. I just used it on a vocal track and really liked the results. Its not a cure-all, but its a great starting point for smoothing out dynamics when need be.

[Dallas Taylor]

After Track Managing, Dialog Editing, Sound Design/Editing, Music Edit/Leveling, Dialog PreMixing, & SFX Premixing.. it doesn't take much more than real-time to do a Final Mix. It's just a matter of putting my fingers on the faders... which seriously... are we getting that lazy? I just couldn't see myself using something like this... at least not in my flavor of Post (Long Form Doc/Reality) & Promos.

Just like mixing without faders, you're going to make a lot of little compromises along the way that will add up to one big dull mix. It's kind of like using Strip Silence & Auto Fades as your Sound Editor.

For those out there who will use these types of tools, by all means... it's your business, do whatever you want.. but I wouldn't hire anyone using things like automixers. ..and I know my Producers wouldn't either.

Maybe this could work in limited way with repetitive, non-broadcast, low budget projects like Radio & Podcasting? I just don't think this is going to be a tool that most top TV/Film Mixers are going to jump at. Maybe I'm wrong?

If you want to get rich, market it as an Avid/FCP plug-in & stab us all in the back

Maybe I'm reading into it way too much.. I'll download it and check it out.

[Mundox]

Dallas, I understand your concerns. But as you will see when you trial it, it's no more than another tool in your arsenal. It does not have evil tendencies towards mixing engineers.

Originally Posted by Dallas Taylor

After Track Managing, Dialog Editing, Sound Design/Editing, Music Edit/Leveling, Dialog PreMixing, & SFX Premixing..

This is where you could take advantage of Wave Rider.

For those out there who will use these types of tools, by all means... it's your business, do whatever you want.. but I wouldn't hire anyone using things like automixers. ..and I know my Producers wouldn't either.

Again, you will see that this is not an automixer. And it's something that does not degrade your sound in any way. Also, Wave Rider is the first of its kind so far as I know, so you can't say "these types of tools".

Maybe this could work in limited way with repetitive, non-broadcast, low budget projects like Radio & Podcasting? I just don't think this is going to be a tool that most top TV/Film Mixers are going to jump at. Maybe I'm wrong?

I hope you are.
I have been (and couple other mixers I know) using it on reality, doco, magazine type of programs. It actually does not matter what you are working so long as you need a smooth sounding dialogue or narration.

If you want to get rich, market it as an Avid/FCP plug-in & stab us all in the back

I wouldn't have been an audio engineer if becoming rich was my ideal.

Maybe I'm reading into it way too much.. I'll download it and check it out.

Do come back with your feedback.

cheers

Vedat

[mintmix]

Originally Posted by Mundox

If you are willing to let Wave Rider do all the work, then you need to create an extensive template.

I haven't downloaded the demo yet but plan on checking it out... Perhaps you guys could create a template or two and post a link here for others to test those capabilities you speak of.

Cheers!

[RecRoom]

I used it on an aux track for a VO in ride mode and it seemed to work pretty well after some tweaking. Just helps to smooth out a track. I don't think it's going to put anyone out of business.

[Geert van den Berg]

I haven't tried the plugin yet, but I think I should.

The way I see it is, that it can be used to even out the level as a sort of natural compressor, but without the side effects...

[Dallas Taylor]

Well, goes to show that you should always test out a plug-in before jumping to conclusions

Yeah, I agree, this plug-in isn't going to put anyone out of business. I put it on some Dialog & VO tracks... after some tweaking, it pretty much smoothed out my Dynamics without a compressor. Pretty cool. It's definitely not going to stop me from getting my fingers on the faders later on, but it might help to get everything in the ballpark.

Sorry again for judging without testing! ..something I preach all the time to others.. should've taken my own advice

[bizzle]

I am always interested in tools or processes that improve my work, speed, and efficiency (never at the cost of quality). However, after a couple hours with WaveRider I can tell you this plugin does neither. I was hoping for a "rough first pass", but the automation this plug writes is totally unusable. I took some production tracks from a tv show I mixed, put the plugin on the tracks and tweaked the settings all around. But no matter what settings I tried, it would ride up the fader on background noise, the "set silence" control was impractical since each clip had its own noise and relative levels. I rather put an ugly compressor up than this. Don't feel threatened guys, this plugin might actually bring us work when the operator discovers that a plugin can't mix.

Mixing isn't a math problem, guys. It takes human eyes, ears, touch, and experience.

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by bizzle

I was hoping for a "rough first pass", but the automation this plug writes is totally unusable.

That's a bit rough.

I took some production tracks from a tv show I mixed, put the plugin on the tracks and tweaked the settings all around. But no matter what settings I tried, it would ride up the fader on background noise, the "set silence" control was impractical since each clip had its own noise and relative levels.

I know I can't pursue you to like Wave Rider, but as we all know mixing a poorly recorded show (camera mic all around) will never be as easy as slapping a plugin here and there.
If you really want to take advantage of this plugin, use it first on clean signals like VO tracks or not so noisy production tracks, and get used to it.

Originally Posted by bizzle

Mixing isn't a math problem, guys. It takes human eyes, ears, touch, and experience.

It's funny you said eyes first.

Cheers

Vedat

[andersmv]

This would be great when you have to mix demo stuff for smaller bands with a really quick turnaround. Will save you some time.

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by andersmv

This would be great when you have to mix demo stuff for smaller bands with a really quick turnaround. Will save you some time.

I'd say that's a little ambitious, but I'd love to see if it can happen.

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by Dallas Taylor

Sorry again for judging without testing!

I appreciate that.

[bizzle]

Originally Posted by Mundox

I know I can't pursue you to like Wave Rider, but as we all know mixing a poorly recorded show (camera mic all around) will never be as easy as slapping a plugin here and there.
If you really want to take advantage of this plugin, use it first on clean signals like VO tracks or not so noisy production tracks, and get used to it.

It's funny you said eyes first.

Absolutely, eyes first, I look at what is coming up on the waveforms, automation, meters, and look at the picture too.

Also, what you call "poor" production sound is situation normal for most TV stuff, and some films too. Also, I didn't say that I didn't "like" your plug, indeed I think you should keep developing it. I was reporting on my little test run with a less than ideal, but certainly common dialog situation. I wasn't expecting a miracle plugin to do my job for me, and I wasn't disappointed. I am sure given a more ideal test your plug would have performed well, but thats just not what I wanted to know nor what I would purchase it for.

I should mention that the HUI control of your plug worked very well and I was impressed with how easy it was to set up and get going. (FYI: The plug does not write good automation while saving a session, so those in the habit of saving while playing be advised)

&e

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by bizzle

(FYI: The plug does not write good automation while saving a session, so those in the habit of saving while playing be advised)

&e

That's right. If you hit save while playing, the faders will go to -0.2 momentarily, and then carry on. This however can be useful in the likes of "Auto Match".
Other thing to watch for is that the faders controlled by Wave Rider will initially default to -0.2, so it's advised to have break points on your crucial tracks which you want to stay at absolute 0 (so that they don't get taken by wave rider by mistake).

[bizzle]

One thing I was thinking it would be nice if you could "type in" values on your controls instead of only being able to use the parameter sliders (unless I am missing something). Also, it would be cool if presets didn't save the midi node/channel number. Would make setup on multiple tracks a little smoother. I just found that I could mute all the Waverider plugins so that they didn't freak out when pasting settings. But its unnerving to have the fader rattle around when more than one plug is controlling it.

[Mundox]

Originally Posted by bizzle

One thing I was thinking it would be nice if you could "type in" values on your controls instead of only being able to use the parameter sliders (unless I am missing something).

You should be able to do this. Simply click on the box with the values, delete what's there and type. thumbsup

But its unnerving to have the fader rattle around when more than one plug is controlling it.

Tell me about it. The fader gets a good workout though.

[RecRoom]

Yeah, I don't think I could use it on some of the reality stuff I work on. But I thought it worked well on a VO track.

What do you expect for 75 bucks?

[unityg]

I have been trying to figure out for the last 2 days why I keep getting midi note C-2 Triggered. I finally traced it back to The Waverider device that was put in my Midi setup. The problem is that I can not delete it now. The plugin is interesting but has cause me a lot of midi problems.

Is there a deinstall option?