I couldn't buld my room to THIS standard

[minister]

But I couldn't build my room to THIS Standard

About Us

(warning: soundtracks play on every page; and, this room just looks like it would sound bad. Attack of the speakers!)

These are ACTUAL a photos from their site. PLEASE look at the "Acoustics" section!

[minister]

Here is the room

[charles maynes]

wow- I dont know what to say....


Considering most films are mixed on PA speakers, I wonder if everything sounds like shit in that room....

[Chaellus]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

wow- I dont know what to say....


Considering most films are mixed on PA speakers, I wonder if everything sounds like shit in that room....

chaos all that money and no thought into what the acoustics of the room would do especially with all these speakers tutt i call it groteseque

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Someone had some money to burn.

[hociman]

Only NHK's Super HD system and some effects shots in Hollywood (Dark Knight) are using 8K resolution. I wonder why they bothered with resources for that, forget the speakers!

[AmpHead]

Just think of the time and expense of replacing and re-biasing all those KT88s!! I'm assuming the McIntosh amps are fixed bias.

Lets see... according to the write up there are 30 'sets' of KT88s... 8 tubes per set... 240 KT88s... that gives me a headache!

Svetlanas - that McIntosh apparently designed the amp around - go for $50-$60 per matched pair. However, the guy who owns that set up must want the high-end tubes, right? So, why not go for EAT KT88 Diamonds that go for $1400 per matched quad?

So, tube replacement time will set him back a cool $6,000 for the cheapest Svetlanas or $84,000 for the EATs! Then add the expense to change them and re-bias all the amps!!!

So, hopefully he doesn't use the studio much so he won't have to replace any tubes... but then why build it????

It'll take a LONG time for the tubes to deteriorate, but I thought it was a fun exercise to calculate the damage if he ever decides to do it!

[danijel]

Excuse me for being such a naysayer lately, but it looks like a hoax to me. Even some of the pics partly look like they've been 3D modeled. But if it is so, then they were done pretty damn good, and the same question remains - why would anyone spend so much time/energy into making it all.

Hoax or not, I doubt the investment will pay off

[TVPostSound]

All that money for equipment, and they use 3250 sq ft of Auralex foam for acoustics!!!

Equipment

Bottom of the page!!!!

[soundboy]

I thought it was a speaker showroom!!!!! That's a studio???? I wonder if he got the acoustically neutral wooden dials for his amps? Yes, I've actually seen that product advertised in a 'home theater' magazine.
Oh, and that Auralex was "hand applied". Wow.
P.T. Barnum would be proud.

[eastwestaudio]

Originally Posted by danijel

Excuse me for being such a naysayer lately, but it looks like a hoax to me. Even some of the pics partly look like they've been 3D modeled. But if it is so, then they were done pretty damn good, and the same question remains - why would anyone spend so much time/energy into making it all.

Hoax or not, I doubt the investment will pay off

sorry danijel,

it's real. i've seen some articles in magazines and numerous pics of the set up. this dude obviously has way too much money for his own good...though don't get me wrong - i'd love so see/hear it for myself!

-greg-

[UnderTow]

I must say, judging by the pictures, they did a good job on cable management. Then again, at 1400$ for a pair of speaker cables you would expect them to be able to hide them nicely: Cardas - Neutral Reference - Speaker Cable-Audio Advisor

Then again, why spend $1400 on cables that "sounds the same at any length" if they are using the same length cables for each and every component?
Alistair

[charles maynes]

here is what I would call the real deal....


StudioVisa - Recording Studio Virtual Tours

[dsteinwedel]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

here is what I would call the real deal....
StudioVisa - Recording Studio Virtual Tours

I'd love to see that as a fight location in a Bourne movie.

-d

[minister]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

here is what I would call the real deal....


StudioVisa - Recording Studio Virtual Tours

Everytime I see that it looks like the shift to Warp Speed on Star Trek.

I notice their haven't been a rash of studios copying this excessive diffusion scheme..............................

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by minister

Everytime I see that it looks like the shift to Warp Speed on Star Trek.

I notice their haven't been a rash of studios copying this excessive diffusion scheme..............................

I think there was about 4 tonnes of wood used for those- that must have been very costly construction-wise, but having no room implied on your listening space must be amazing....

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

here is what I would call the real deal....


StudioVisa - Recording Studio Virtual Tours

A lot of good trees gave up their life for this studio. It must sound AMAZING but I would feel more like I was in a lumber yard than a recording studio control room. With all that wood pointed at the middle of the room you would soon get the feeling that you were in the middle of something that was ABOUT to happen like in an old Medieval movie where the arrows are about to fly all at once all aimed at you. I really wonder how they attached all that lumber to the backing boards

As to the original studio. I have been in some amazing studios but this one is WAY overdone. I cannot imagine the heat generated by all those KT-88s the A/C use must have to be continuous and very costly. He will probably never get a "Green" award for the studio but maybe he does not care with all the money it must have taken to get it all together.

I had a tube amplifier with four KT-88s and I never had to turn up the heat in my studio in the winter time. WOW!

[Kipnis-Studios]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

wow- I dont know what to say....


Considering most films are mixed on PA speakers, I wonder if everything sounds like shit in that room....

Somehow, I don't think Mr. Lucas, Mr. Katzenburg, nor Mr Scorsese or the engineers at Skywalker Ranch would agree about the PA speakers.

And (perhaps surprisingly) most modern mixes and remasters sound quite good, indeed. Although I have noticed that the LaserDisc and DVD audio mixes of ten years ago tend to be a bit bolder in their use of the surround channels than many of today's mix of the same material.

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs

[minister]

Originally Posted by Kipnis-Studios

Somehow, I don't think Mr. Lucas, Mr. Katzenburg, nor Mr Scorsese or the engineers at Skywalker Ranch would agree about the PA speakers.

First of all, Mr. Scorsese often mixes at Sound 1 in NY and NEVER has ANYTHING to say about what kind of speakers the facility uses. He trusts the engineers at the facilities. Directors do not ask about what kind of speakers are used.

Ever been to any of those places? Some of us have, some here have even worked there or are currently there. And know what they have -- which are very similar to PA speakers. (Very frequently JBL Cinema arrays or similar) In order to get the Sound Pressure level into a large theater, you need large speakers and amps. Seeing as commercial Theaters don't use "audiophile" speakers, neither do the folks who mix the movies. They are looking for a real world situation. And those rooms can sound VERY good.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Kipnis-Studios

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs

Wow, seems like the ULTIMATE GEARSLUT has joined Gearslutz )
Welcome, Jeremy!

Originally Posted by Kipnis-Studios

Somehow, I don't think Mr. Lucas, Mr. Katzenburg, nor Mr Scorsese or the engineers at Skywalker Ranch would agree about the PA speakers.

Although they're technically not, we often refer to them as PA, just to stress the fact that they're no high fidelity audiophile speakers.

[Kipnis-Studios]

Originally Posted by danijel

Wow, seems like the ULTIMATE GEARSLUT has joined Gearslutz )
Welcome, Jeremy!




Although they're technically not, we often refer to them as PA, just to stress the fact that they're no high fidelity audiophile speakers.

Hi Danijel,

I'm delighted to be here. Certainly (in the past) Public Address systems and particularly those speakers used in movie auditoriums have been capable of less then stellar performance. But JBL Professional Products for Cinemas must be regarded as the equivalent of an audiophile speaker, just designed to speak clearly to a much larger volume of air and over a much greater distance.

The Snell THX Music & Cinema Reference Speaker System I use in my Ciné Beta Screening Room was designed by Kevin Voecks to achieve the same goal (or better) in the home environment!

But the true aim of my Kipnis Studio Standard designs is to elevate the expectations of those who produce media professionally - and this necessarily includes many non-standard approaches which I have researched and developed over the last 38 years specifically to allow the end user to experience the presentation as realistically as possible, and without compromise.

I find, after nearly 40 years of working in and enjoying these many industries that create picture and sound content, that the best results generally occur when the Producer and Director do ask which speaker system is in use (particularly for record production), as well as which lenses are being used during a shoot.

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs

[Pascal Sijen]

Originally Posted by Kipnis-Studios

Somehow, I don't think Mr. Lucas... ...or the engineers at Skywalker Ranch would agree about the PA speakers.

Yes they would.

I worked for Lucasfilm / THX for 5-years, assisted in the design and testing of literally thousands of theaters and dub stages, and they use what is basically analogous to PA speakers. The Stag and all of the large dub stages at Skywalker Sound use relatively standard cinema speakers, which again are also basically PA speakers. In fact, when Tom Holman would do a demo in The Stag theater for "audiophiles", he would always say that the speakers in the theater where basically PA speakers. This is not a put down and the rooms sound amazing, but there is more to it than just gear (sorry Gearslutz).

What makes it work is the design of the room, in particular the acoustics, speaker placement, etc. The goal is to build a room which matches SMPTE, Dolby and THX standards / guidelines, so that the film soundtrack translates to the Cinema.

I don't mean to be harsh; you are using some wonderful speakers and some of the equipment is top notch, but the placement (in particular the LCR under the screen with the amp sitting in front of them, well within their radiation pattern), acoustics (or lack thereof), etc., don't seem to match any of these standards or recommendations. In my opinion, the room as a whole seems to be a distraction from what its main purpose should be. It is about the picture and the sound, not about the equipment. In my experience, it is always best to follow the well proven industry guidelines / standards, to also hide all the "technology" and let the picture and sound stand on their own.

Anyway, maybe your room works in spite of this and I could be wrong, but not about cinema & dub stage speakers - they are basically sound reinforcement / PA speakers, built to specific standards, which match the needs and standards of the application.

Cheers!

[TVPostSound]

that the best results generally occur when the Producer and Director do ask which speaker system is in use

I have never been asked, nor would they care!!

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Kipnis-Studios

Hi Danijel,

I'm delighted to be here. Certainly (in the past) Public Address systems and particularly those speakers used in movie auditoriums have been capable of less then stellar performance. But JBL Professional Products for Cinemas must be regarded as the equivalent of an audiophile speaker, just designed to speak clearly to a much larger volume of air and over a much greater distance.

The Snell THX Music & Cinema Reference Speaker System I use in my Ciné Beta Screening Room was designed by Kevin Voecks to achieve the same goal (or better) in the home environment!

But the true aim of my Kipnis Studio Standard designs is to elevate the expectations of those who produce media professionally - and this necessarily includes many non-standard approaches which I have researched and developed over the last 38 years specifically to allow the end user to experience the presentation as realistically as possible, and without compromise.

I find, after nearly 40 years of working in and enjoying these many industries that create picture and sound content, that the best results generally occur when the Producer and Director do ask which speaker system is in use (particularly for record production), as well as which lenses are being used during a shoot.

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs

Record production and Cinema sound have very little to do with one another- Most "proper" theatres do use PA type speakers- an audiophile speaker would simply be inappropriate in a large room.

There are many specifications and practices that are followed routinely in the field- THX and Dolby are good starting points.

[postprosound]

Tom Fleishchman mixed The Departed, Inside Man, the soon to be released Shutter Island, and contrary to Mix Mag, the film for Shine A Light on these speakers amongst many other films at Soundtrack F/T on Stage B. I believe that the big stages at Sound One also use these same 'Dolly Parton' speakers. (named for the way the horns look like cleavage.)
Film/TV post production, as Charles said, has very little to do with music in how they are made.

[Kipnis-Studios]

Originally Posted by TVPostSound

I have never been asked, nor would they care!!

And Charles was wondering if everything mixed for movies sounded like ****? In fact it is so much better than that, regardless of the equipment used, because there are a lot of very talented people in the business.

But to clarify the PA speaker issue, a little basic defining of terms is necessary:

A public address or "PA" system is an electronic amplification system with a mixer, amplifier and loudspeakers, used to reinforce a given sound, e.g., a person making a speech, prerecorded music, or message, and distributing the sound to the general public around a building.
Simple PA systems are often used in small venues such as school auditoriums, churches, and small bars. PA systems with a larger number of speakers are widely used in institutional and commercial buildings, to read announcements or declare states of emergency. Intercom systems, which are often used in schools, also have microphones in each room so that the occupants can reply to the central office.
There is disagreement over when to call these audio systems Sound Reinforcement (SR) systems or PA systems. Some audio engineers distinguish between the two by technology and capability, while others distinguish by intended use, e.g., SR systems are for live music, whereas PA systems are usually for reproduction of speech and recorded music in buildings and institutions). This distinction is important in some regions or markets, while in other regions or markets the terms are interchangeable.[1]


(Wikipedia - Public Address)

There is not a single mention of PA being part of cinema audio production or presentation, and I would never use the JBL Screen Speakers anywhere but in a movie theater and behind a perforated screen - because that is the correct acoustic for which they are designed to reproduce sound accurately. And while I agree that the original Altec Lansing "Voice of the Theater" cinema speakers of the forties & fifties are hardly audiophile by today's standards, they are certainly considered much more than just a Public Address Speaker, even at the time they were first designed and installed in movie theaters across the world.

In the end, the only difference between a Movie Theater Speaker, a PA speaker, and a Home Theater or Living Room speaker (even if they are all made by JBL for the purpose of replaying movie soundtracks or music) is whether it is designed for accurate reproduction in a small cubic volume of air or a large one, wide vs. narrow dispersion characteristics, high efficiency vs. low distortion, and overall frequency response (extended vs. limited). But the sound percieved by the audience is still supposed to be largely similar in accuracy to reality (given the director's desire to be more or less faithful to reality - or not!)

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs

[charles maynes]

Jeremy, were you aware that Peavey CS 800 amplifiers were approved for THX installations?

[soundguydave]

I've read the website I still don't understand what they do. Is it a mixing facility, a screening room?

[jhg]

Originally Posted by soundguydave

I've read the website I still don't understand what they do. Is it a mixing facility, a screening room?

From what I gather, it's a screening room that wouldn't ever pass Dolby certification.

While all the audiophile stuff looks cool(and pumps out the heat like a mofo), I'm sure sounds good, it's simply not a good representation of a standard movie theater.

I'm not sure I'd want to master my music in that room either.

Then again, I'm an ass.

Regards,

jhg

[Kipnis-Studios]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Jeremy, were you aware that Peavey CS 800 amplifiers were approved for THX installations?

I love Peavey. And you're talking about an amplifier, in this case, which is completely different from a discussion of PA or any speaker issue. Speakers are the single most colored variable in any sound reproduction equation after the shape, size and materials of the room those speakers are placed in.

As you know, ideally, an amplifier is an amplifier is an amplifier as long as the output characteristics and power into a given load are the same for all concerned (The Stereo Review Philosophy from the 70's - prothelatized by Julien Hersch). And I also love Crown amplifiers for the very same reason - reliability over a long period of time under frequently adverse and/or varied conditions. You might have noticed I use 3 Crown Macro Reference amplifiers in my KSS Ciné Beta Screening Room.

But to be honest, just because it is a THX approved amplifier (or whatever product) does not guarentee that it is any better than another product with similar capabilities and specifications. I applaude THX for these improvements starting in 1983 to improve and modernize the picture and sound quality of commercial cinemas throughout the world.

How's that for a professional evaluation of THX branding?

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

www.EpiphanyRecordings.com

Video Calibration Labs