URGENT: Need NYC/east coast USA audio post rate info!

[jaguarmusicboy]

Hello Fellow Slutz

I need some best guess estimates on what the going rates are per hour for
audio post production work, voice-overs, ADR and editing.

I'm not talking about "broom closet" post work here... kids with lap tops and a couple of cheap Chinese mics working out of their apartments. I'm not talking about over-the-top mega-studios with acres of pricey real estate in high end neighborhoods and all the toys that money can buy plus hot and cold running staff. I'm talking about
what the generally accepted bottom hourly rate is at a small but capable established
post production house.

I'm bidding on some work for an established (but notoriously cheap)
television network; mostly voice-over and editing. As I have no real estate
overhead I'm in a good position to undercut most of my competition; but I
don't want to give anything away that I don't need to. I've been trying to survey
NYC area east coast rates for this kind of work. True to form, no one publishes
rate cards, and telephoning studios for a quote usually leads to a very
unproductive conversation with the sales manager, studio manager, or owner
where they try various ways to determine what kind of work I'm doing, who it's for,
and how much they can squeeze out of me.

So, if those of you who have some experience in this kind of work in the general vicinity of New York City [2 hour radius±] could chime in with some ball park hourly rates I would be grateful.

Thanks

[cubivore]

i can't offer any guesses as to going rates of the NYC area, but i'm sure it's double what i charge in texas. why go nyc? is there some set in stone reason? anyway, you might wanna call jon at unison recording. he's got a nice VO room and i've worked on several audiobooks that were tracked there. i'm sure he's got the right sized setup for you, and is somewhere in nyc.

Unison Recording Company - Full Service Music Production and Recording

[starcrash13]

Probably won't get much help with this question because not only is it way too broad for a simple answer, but the question itself is sort of a weird thing to ask on a forum. For you to charge the "going rates" would imply that you have a reasonable amount of experience and a decent resumé in which case you should already know how much to charge. If you're looking to "undercut the competition", why would your so called "competition" want to "chime in" and help you do that?

If you own a music production studio and want to break into post, why not try some pro bono work for a worthy cause or maybe help out some students? Not only will you gain some experience (and good karma), but you will get a better idea of how long things take and how much compensation you'll need to make it work.

I'm sure this isn't the answer you're looking for, so I apologize in advance.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

For you to charge the "going rates" would imply that you have a reasonable amount of experience and a decent resumé in which case you should already know how much to charge. If you're looking to "undercut the competition", why would your so called "competition" want to "chime in" and help you do that?

Sort of what I thought, but could never put it into words like Pascal

[hummer]

I don't think you guys are being fair.

I work full time in post for a salary. I consider myself very experienced, and I have a great resume. Yet, if I were freelance and going to bid on a project, I wouldn't have a clue.

Instead, I would turn to my peers working in private studios for input. But I guess I wouldn't do that here, for fear that everyone would rip me up.

I think it really does depend on the situation. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be of much help in that department because for any extracurricular freelance work, I usually work on small-budget indie films, in exchange for goods, services, and whatever small amount of pay I can squeeze out of them.

Hopefully someone here can at least point you in the right direction.

[cubivore]

for some reason i thought the OP was about finding a studio with rates that aren't closet studios. are you trying to come up with an hourly rate or a package rate?

[RecRoom]

I find it a little hard to believe that no one is willing to give you a price quote over the phone. These are questions studios are used to getting and most have no problem emailing out rate cards.

But yeah, I don't think anyone here would be willing to help someone undercut themselves. Seems to me, if you were experienced enough you'd already know the answer.

Although, If you wanted to hire me I might be more willing to share......

[nathand]

I'm not sure I believe the OP has really contacted a Post Facility, posed as a client and asked for a rate. If you called our scheduler she would be happy to go over our rates with you. The reason they are so rarely published these days is because every client has their own deal and the "book rate" is seldom the "billed rate".

[cubivore]

i think georgia posted her rate card on here before and it might even be on her website. maybe go by that and cut it in half or a third, whatever you don't feel guilty charging.

[Geert van den Berg]

I have a little problem with these kinds of threads, this is not a business forum, but an audio forum, I rather discuss the audio itself.

Either the job is done well or the budget is so low that you can't do a good job and then you can better let it pass, this will at least make sure the budgets for audio do not get lower, as we're already at the bottom IMHO.

[jaguarmusicboy]

OK Folks; thanks for the replies so far. Lets see if i can make things easier.

1) Not looking for a studio. Have my own, pretty seriously equipped, have had experience with documentaries, industrials, television commercials, a regular network owned cable show, and one award winning indie feature.

2) Not looking to steal work from any of you guys. I have an inside track on something and I want to lock it in. If it goes the way I'd like it to go I will have more work than I and my partner can handle and I'd be in a position to post job requests for additional free lance staff.

3) First, thanks to Hummer - you obviously understood what I'm after although I understand that your circumstances prevent a directly useful response.

4) Cubivore: ... looking to find out what average hourly rates for this sort of work are but would also welcome information regarding larger packages. I will call your friend Jon at Unison and see what he has to say. Thanks. Also you mentioned Georgia - I don't know her so I'd be happy for contact info or a thread reference to look over those rates

5) Jeff Hinton: Thanks pal, but your reply precisely exemplifies the kind of problem I run into with this kind of inquiry. As to the hiring part refer to #2 above. This is not a zero sum game here. I can assure you that no one else is going to land this job. I have a chance to get work outsourced to me that would otherwise remain with the network in house, so you guys are not losing out on anything by "sharing" but those of you who freelance might end up with some overflow opportunities. My credentials are quite respectable thankyou, but I've been working in other areas of audio for a while so my data for this kind of work is a little out of date.

6) Nathan Dubin: Yes, everyone is more than willing to share their published "card rates" because NO ONE ... and I do mean NO ONE ever pays them. I'm looking for information about billed rates, not card rates. It's a pretty simple question. In terms of competent but not over-the-top luxury post houses, WHAT IS THE BALL PARK ENTRY LEVEL HOURLY BILLED RATE FOR AUDIO POST WORK? THE REAL RATE NOT THE $400.00 an hour rate we all used to bill Grey Advertising for finals in the heyday of major studios!

7) Geert Van Den Berg: Sorry you're having problems with the post. It's been my experience that there is always someone who has a problem with almost any post on this site. I fail to see that basic market research (i.e. what is the price entry point for respectable hourly audio post work) threatens anyone's job or pricing? In this case it could actually open up some work for freelancers. As to this not being a "business forum" you are absolutely DEAD WRONG there pal. We don't ask each other about the comparative cost benefits of various gear and the relative performance levels or applications of gear for the thrill of it. If I want a thrilling hobby I'll go bungee jumping or something. I pose questions here - mostly about gear in fact - for BUSINESS REASONS. It happens that I DO enjoy my work, but lets not kid ourselves.
THIS IS BUSINESS.

Thank you all for your contributions so far. If any of you can give some educated guesses about hourly rates please chime in - specific referrals for telephone or email inquiries are also welcome.

Thanks Again

[smurfyou]

You might find the reason Geert commented on the topic is because he is a moderator. I think he might know a bit more about this forum and whats appropriate.

As to your question, I don't work in the NYC area so I can't help. The rates are usually at least double what they are here. How much would you be willing to work for? Start with that and go up

[georgia]

I'd charge around $150 / hr for basic audio post. I'd charge more for dialogue cleanup / ADR / etc.....

Look, A lot of this is based on what you are offering and what their budget is. You could end up at $20 / hr just as fast as ending up with $250 /hr... what's your experience, capability, availability, quality of work, facility, overhead and gear.. etc it's all part of the fee decision.... and for me it's a lot about the grief level on any given project. I normally get ( on average ) about $150 to $200 / hr. for hourly work. But I have a pretty nice place and a crew behind me.



cheers
geo

[dr.sound]

Jaguarmusicboy,
First off if you have worked in this business then you would realize that each project is different. Each client is different and so are his or her needs. If you have done this kind of work before then you can judge what will work for the client. If you haven't then do it for as low of a price that you can. Get the credits and learn.

Please as a favor to all here (and most are working Post Mixers, Editors etc) lose the tude .
As a business owner I have gotten burnt by people kicking tires (like you) who want to find out what I would charge and then underbid me.
I have recently changed my policy to not make any quotes over the phone and insist that the potential client comes by for a tour and a chat. This weeds out the time wasters.
Please don't misunderstand where I'm coming from. If you can't figure out what to charge then you should go to work at a Facility for a while and learn the Post ropes.

Gert is the forum moderator so listen to what he has to say.

By the way, if you want advice then sign your name.

[minister]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

7) Geert Van Den Berg: Sorry you're having problems with the post. It's been my experience that there is always someone who has a problem with almost any post on this site. I fail to see that basic market research (i.e. what is the price entry point for respectable hourly audio post work) threatens anyone's job or pricing? In this case it could actually open up some work for freelancers. As to this not being a "business forum" you are absolutely DEAD WRONG there pal. We don't ask each other about the comparative cost benefits of various gear and the relative performance levels or applications of gear for the thrill of it. If I want a thrilling hobby I'll go bungee jumping or something. I pose questions here - mostly about gear in fact - for BUSINESS REASONS. It happens that I DO enjoy my work, but lets not kid ourselves.
THIS IS BUSINESS.

Geert IS the Moderator and does a very fine job if you ask me! He is fair, even-handed and pretty much let's people be free to speak. Only when people get their PANTS in a bunch, does he step in and show a stern hand.

This is a forum to discuss technical and artistic/aesthetic issues associated with doing Post Production. So, he is not DEAD WRONG; he is, in fact, RIGHT ON. you will see there is very little discussion of "the cost of doing business" here, though it inevitably comes up.

Most houses will not share their prices with you for the very reason that Dr. Sound and, in fact, you stated :

As I have no real estate
overhead I'm in a good position to undercut most of my competition; but I don't want to give anything away that I don't need to.

Must be everyone wants to be like the good Dr. !

I would do a cost analysis, look at your real post-production facilities, look at your experience and come up with a figure that is fair to charge based n your geographic location.

I came by my prices over the course of time and have adjusted them according to all kinds of factors. And every project is different.

You can charge what you have leverage to charge.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

I have recently changed my policy to not make any quotes over the phone and insist that the potential client comes by for a tour and a chat.

A wise policy...info over the phone can really drain you. I've pretty much wiped out the bottom feeders who used to call by just asking for name and project info before I'll take the time to talk. There's only one me, but there are a lot of people too lazy to look up stuff on the internet who want me to teach them stuff over the phone.

[hef]

Telling your fellow NYC peers you want to undercut us and you'd like us to help you in doing that is a bit naive. But I'll still give you some 'sound' advice.

Business 101: Charge the best rate you can. If you know what the rate cards are then start there. Plenty of studios do get rate card or close to it. Its a starting point. Now, if you can't offer what they offer- especially with client services then you need to adjust accordingly so your starting point should be less. A business class or a book would give you better info on how to set prices than a forum like this. rates are soooo varied on a per project basis. deals are worked out based on amount of work, type of work, what kind of space it needs to be done in, and time frame. if you're "undercutting the competition" well then you probably aren't offering the same services as the competition. If you're offering the same services, well then you're losing your shirt- especially in this town.

Everyone knows- you get what you pay for.

[jhg]

Charge whatever, just know that if you are trying to steal clients from an established facility, if you don't offer better services, they'll gladly pay more for those services. Beyond the great mixing: Things like a nice, large clean studio. Good coffee and food in the kitchen area, client computers, ability to lay back to whatever format needed, zero downtime, ISDN patching if needed, CENTRAL LOCATION, space impressive and comfortable for clients and producers of all walks, nice bathrooms, etc.

When you call and ask for rates, why be insulted that a studio wants to know the particulars? Terrible analogy, but call a car dealership and ask "How much does a car cost" Then get angry when they ask you what you want in said car.

[starcrash13]

Originally Posted by minister

Only when people get their PANTS in a bunch, does he step in and show a stern hand.

That's PANTS, man! Totally PANTS!

Nice GS Post inside joke, Tom. ;-)

[JoeMilner]

definitely pants
Leave it to Tom for the awesome reference

[jaguarmusicboy]

My apologies for not responding sooner to the recent posts. Its been a busy couple of days.

First: I'd like to thank the respondents. In particular, I'd like to once again thank Hummer, Cubivore, and most recently, Georgia.

Georgia your site is a knockout. Great work! And THANK YOU for answering my question directly and simply. That was exactly the type of response I was hoping for.

Pascal: I apologize for not addressing your response the first time around. Perfectly rational response and useful to a complete beginner; but while this kind of work has not been my primary source of income, I've had enough experience with it to be beyond the pro-bono dues paying stage. Nevertheless, thanks for taking the time to offer the suggestions. Also, a point of clarification here: we were approached by a producer to do some simple V.O. work for a documentary after he had been to several places in our location (north west CT/Berkshires) and was quite unhappy with what the local competition had to offer. On the strength of this we were then contacted by another producer working for the network owned cable channel which had aired said documentary for regular V.O. and editing work on one of their shows. After doing this for a season that producer has expressed a desire to outsource us a considerable amount of work which they currently do in house. Since this line of work has not been our main focus, I felt it reasonable to inquire what the usual fee
parameters were in order to avoid getting locked into an unfair contract rate. For those of you who suggested "charge what the traffic will bear" - or words to that effect, that is what I am trying to determine.

dr. sound: I didn't sign my name because it didn't occur to me that was required or needed, or that folks would care much one way or the other. My name is Dan Harrison. I have been in the business of recording, producing, and writing music off and on for thirty + years. I was a silent partner in Chelsea Sound Studios in NYC, and the managing partner of it's successor, Crossroads Recording. I came to this business more as a musician and producer than as an engineer, and while I have a great set of ears, I've had to play catch up in the engineering department. I am very thankful for the outstanding engineering abilities of my associates at Jaguar Music. Some of my clients/credits include: Lanacane [Comb International], News 4 NewYork, Wolverine Boots & Shoes, Hayworth Furniture, Aruba National Tourism Bureau, BellAtlantic, Steelcase, EMI/Stonehenge Records, Caterpillar, HarleyDavidson, Gotham Chamber Opera, North American Choral Company, Music Mountain.

I've written/produced for Phoebe Snow, Kay T. Oslin, Donna Murphy, Jody Gray, The Adlibs, Stephen Sprouse, Don Yowell, Lucia Suarez, Screamindiva[aka Katreese Barnes of SNL/Sting fame], Jon Fiore.

Major studio clients have included: Billy Joel, Chaka Kahn, David Chesky, Bill C. Davis, Gary Katz, Toshi Reagan, Arif Mardin, Harold Wheeler, Elliot Goldenthal & Woody Allen.

Some years ago I decided I'd had enough of NYC and traded in my cramped production room on west 25th street for a sweet little pocket battleship of a studio which I built on my land in North West CT. My good friend John Klett - a former Gearslutz moderator - was the principle designer/installer, though Andrew at Purple Audio has designed and built some things for the installation and Matt Marinelli at Coral Sound/Exile is also a trusted technical adviser. Some of the highlights include a 1968 Philips 28 input +6db console custom built for Deutsche Grammophon, a collection of 70 mics {many vintage), eight racks of mostly vintage tube and discrete outboard gear, four monitoring systems, two iso booths, a rhythm section sized tracking room, G-5 dual processor macs with multiple platforms (CuBase/Nuendo, Protools, Logic Pro - 8, Final Cut, Soundtrack Pro, Spark), 24 channel moving fader automation, Korg Oasys, Triton, Ensonique ZR17 synths, 20 quality vst instrument suites, over 200 plug-ins, and for the analogue infatuated, a Studer C-37 all tube 15 i.p.s. 2-track tape machine. That about does it for my CV and gear summary, hope that satisfies.

On a general note I should add that its been a pleasure and an inspiration to visit some of the websites of the respondents to this thread. That alone has been worth the exercise. When I finally get around to re-doing mine (last updated 8 years ago)
I'll have plenty of inspiration.

And by the way, I promise to NEVER ask any rate questions again on this forum; but in return I would ask those of you who had issues with the question to think about this: Gearslutz is generally acknowledged as the premiere forum site for audio professionals in the world. If you can't pose that question here to a wide network of peers, then where do you think you can ask it?

Thanks again for your replies.

Over and out here.

[RecRoom]

I think the reason you got such a negative response was that you stated in your original post that you "were in a good position to undercut the competition"... well, that's some people on this board. Perhaps in the future you would find people more willing to help if you worded your request a little differently.

Hearing a little more about your studio and your location... I would probably charge somewhere around 175 to 275 an hour for VO record/edit/mix, most studios also charge for materials (markup from cost 20 to 40 percent), but I would be worried about clients feeling like you're nickel and diming them. That's just a guesstimate, but that seems fair to me given your location and experience. A lot of it depends on the client.

Good luck.

[philper]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

A wise policy...info over the phone can really drain you. I've pretty much wiped out the bottom feeders who used to call by just asking for name and project info before I'll take the time to talk. There's only one me, but there are a lot of people too lazy to look up stuff on the internet who want me to teach them stuff over the phone.

Two questions I refuse to answer directly any more: 1: "what's your availability like next week/next month/next year?" and 2: "what's your rate"? I'm not a hotel or a rental car company. For long-form work I generally say that I need to see their cut, whatever shape it's in, in order to have an intelligent conversation about the two questions above. If they don't want to send a DVD, or don't have one, then they aren't serious or ready to talk about post audio. After I look at the cut I can decide if the project looks like something I want to do, and tells me a lot about their "ability to pay", general film making experience, and the ambitions of the project and the people.

Philip Perkins

[Lipflap]

Originally Posted by philper

If they don't want to send a DVD, or don't have one, then they aren't serious or ready to talk about post audio. After I look at the cut I can decide if the project looks like something I want to do, and tells me a lot about their "ability to pay", general film making experience, and the ambitions of the project and the people.

Philip Perkins

I often can't get a DVD or video, as many directors are certain that their films will be the next Blade Runner. They're convinced that the scratch audio, AVR-3 video off-line will end up in the markets of Ulaan Baatar, this wiping out their profits. I must make due with an Avid cutting room screening, the worst possible environment for track assessment (aside from, perhaps, an aircraft carrier). Such is life ...

[nathand]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

...but while this kind of work has not been my primary source of income, I've had enough experience with it to be beyond the pro-bono dues paying stage. Nevertheless, thanks for taking the time to offer the suggestions. Also, a point of clarification here: we were approached by a producer to do some simple V.O. work for a documentary after he had been to several places in our location (north west CT/Berkshires) and was quite unhappy with what the local competition had to offer. On the strength of this we were then contacted by another producer working for the network owned cable channel which had aired said documentary for regular V.O. and editing work on one of their shows. After doing this for a season that producer has expressed a desire to outsource us a considerable amount of work which they currently do in house. Since this line of work has not been our main focus, I felt it reasonable to inquire what the usual fee
parameters were in order to avoid getting locked into an unfair contract rate...I didn't sign my name because it didn't occur to me that was required or needed, or that folks would care much one way or the other. My name is Dan Harrison. I have been in the business of recording, producing, and writing music off and on for thirty + years. I was a silent partner in Chelsea Sound Studios in NYC, and the managing partner of it's successor, Crossroads Recording. I came to this business more as a musician and producer than as an engineer, and while I have a great set of ears, I've had to play catch up in the engineering department. I am very thankful for the outstanding engineering abilities of my associates at Jaguar Music. Some of my clients/credits include: Lanacane [Comb International], News 4 NewYork, Wolverine Boots & Shoes, Hayworth Furniture, Aruba National Tourism Bureau, BellAtlantic, Steelcase, EMI/Stonehenge Records, Caterpillar, HarleyDavidson, Gotham Chamber Opera, North American Choral Company, Music Mountain.

I've written/produced for Phoebe Snow, Kay T. Oslin, Donna Murphy, Jody Gray, The Adlibs, Stephen Sprouse, Don Yowell, Lucia Suarez, Screamindiva[aka Katreese Barnes of SNL/Sting fame], Jon Fiore.

Major studio clients have included: Billy Joel, Chaka Kahn, David Chesky, Bill C. Davis, Gary Katz, Toshi Reagan, Arif Mardin, Harold Wheeler, Elliot Goldenthal & Woody Allen.

Some years ago I decided I'd had enough of NYC and traded in my cramped production room on west 25th street for a sweet little pocket battleship of a studio which I built on my land in North West CT. My good friend John Klett - a former Gearslutz moderator - was the principle designer/installer, though Andrew at Purple Audio has designed and built some things for the installation and Matt Marinelli at Coral Sound/Exile is also a trusted technical adviser. Some of the highlights include a 1968 Philips 28 input +6db console custom built for Deutsche Grammophon, a collection of 70 mics {many vintage), eight racks of mostly vintage tube and discrete outboard gear, four monitoring systems, two iso booths, a rhythm section sized tracking room, G-5 dual processor macs with multiple platforms (CuBase/Nuendo, Protools, Logic Pro - 8, Final Cut, Soundtrack Pro, Spark), 24 channel moving fader automation, Korg Oasys, Triton, Ensonique ZR17 synths, 20 quality vst instrument suites, over 200 plug-ins, and for the analogue infatuated, a Studer C-37 all tube 15 i.p.s. 2-track tape machine. That about does it for my CV and gear summary, hope that satisfies...And by the way, I promise to NEVER ask any rate questions again on this forum; but in return I would ask those of you who had issues with the question to think about this: Gearslutz is generally acknowledged as the premiere forum site for audio professionals in the world. If you can't pose that question here to a wide network of peers, then where do you think you can ask it?

Thanks again for your replies.

Well why didn't you say so?

I think the responses would have been a lot different had you started with this.

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

Yes, everyone is more than willing to share their published "card rates" because NO ONE ... and I do mean NO ONE ever pays them.

Not true.

However, in this particular case, it seems to me like you are more in competition with their in-house facility than with other facilities in town (or nearby). And from a price point-of-view it is impossible to compete with what it costs them to do the mix themselves. However if they have too much work to handle on their own and they are unhappy with other places they've been I would find out what they paid in the past (Sounds to me like you're inside enough to get an answer that has a 75% chance of being the truth) and charge more than that...maybe considerably more. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious here or if you've already been down this path.

Sorry Gert to keep this going.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by philper

Two questions I refuse to answer directly any more: 1: "what's your availability like next week/next month/next year?" and 2: "what's your rate"? I'm not a hotel or a rental car company. For long-form work I generally say that I need to see their cut, whatever shape it's in, in order to have an intelligent conversation about the two questions above. If they don't want to send a DVD, or don't have one, then they aren't serious or ready to talk about post audio. After I look at the cut I can decide if the project looks like something I want to do, and tells me a lot about their "ability to pay", general film making experience, and the ambitions of the project and the people.

Philip Perkins

Although I am lucky not to have to deal with rates, I am often asked if I am available for a project. My accustomed answer is, "I think so", regardless if something is on the books for the time period in question. I actually don't know if I will be working on any project until late in the week prior to starting. Projects move around so much these days, often at the last minute, that the question itself is pretty pointless. If the dates I am being asked about don't move, then undoubtedly the ones I'm supposedly booked on will. So, Yes, Yes, Yes.

[Henchman]

JAGUAR, that's all nice and dandy, but, and this is coming form someone with a music engineering background, whatever you have done in music means jack. Seriously.

How many TV series have you mixed?
How many hours of VO have you recorded?
How much editing have you done.

Way more relevant than your music credits.

Also, you're going to have a pretty hard time competing with in-house VO rates, as that's all "soft" money.
Convincing them to pay REAL money for something they can do in house, especially with a, as you put it "notoriously Cheap" network, well, good luck. Unless you lower your rates to the "what's the point" level.

You will most likely at some point need ISDN capabilities for when the VO person is not in town. That will cost a pretty penny, pretty much negating the price you'll be charging.

So, I don't know, really, what's the point?

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We recently did some work for the History Channel - not one of our normal clients. We charged them our normal hourly published rates and they were happy to pay them. If you have a rate sheet you can always start there and whittle away at prices if the need arises. The most expensive post studio in Cleveland starts at $213 per hour and goes up from there. Our website is Acoustik Musik Ltd: Audio and Digital Audio Mastering, Audio Restoration, Media Transfers, Radio-Show Production, Audio Technical Support, and Forensic work: Located in Oberlin, OH just outside Cleveland! if you want to check out our rates.

I also do mastering as well as voice over work and commercial production. We have recently been overwhelmed with tire kickers and calls about our rates especially our rates for mastering. We use to give them out over the phone and the are posted on our website. Lately I have been asking the potential mastering or post production clients to stop by and have a talk and bring their rough tracks with them so I can listen to them and see where they are and what I will be getting in to work on. I also take this opportunity to let them size us up and let me size them up. So far it is working out well.

One the post production side I had one client recently that wanted me to write them a very detailed multi-page document outlining what we could do for them and how we would approach their project and the cost(s) for everything we were going to provide. The problem was that the client was being very secretive about what the project really was and the total scope of the project. It is hard to know what to write or what to quote when you don't know exactly what the project entails and after talking to this gentlemen for a while I got the idea that he was going to let us write the proposal for him and he was going to take our proposal and use it to get the real job that he would not tell us about.

Best of luck on your rate quest. It use to be easy to get a rate card but today even with a rate card in hand that may NOT be what the studio is really charging and a lot depends on how much work you do with them and how hungry they are.

[jaguarmusicboy]

Thanks one and all. Good replies. I have what I need to tackle the suits. At this point I think it's "dead horse" time so I'm going to call it quits on this thread.

Thomas Bethel, Nathand, RecRoom, et al: Thanks

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by jaguarmusicboy

And by the way, I promise to NEVER ask any rate questions again on this forum; but in return I would ask those of you who had issues with the question to think about this: Gearslutz is generally acknowledged as the premiere forum site for audio professionals in the world. If you can't pose that question here to a wide network of peers, then where do you think you can ask it?

Well I did not delete your thread... that should say enough, doesn't it?

The point I made earlier is just that you should charge whatever YOU feel covers the expenses and the work you're doing. Usually there's a creative side working with audio and a business side, which only purpose is to make the best possible deal, usually those 2 collide...

I agree with you that it is not necessarily a bad thing to look at the rates of other studios. But your comment about possibly undercutting other studios might have sparked some bad vibes in this thread.