How do YOU de-breath in Protools?

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 03:00 AM

Just got Protools here at work. I'm very quick with debreathing in cubase and Adobe Audition because I've set up keyboard short cuts to auto fade out quickly, short silence and then a quick fade back in. I don't think I can do this in protools... so how do you guys de-breath in protools? atm i've been selecting and deleting the breath, after editing a whole section i then do a batch fade accross them all... but it's not as smooth or as fast as doing it in the other programs.

So how do YOU do it? there has got to be a better way then what i'm doing.

Thanks.

soundguydave · 3rd July 2008, 04:01 AM

I just select the breath and delete. If I need to, I slide the regions closer together. no fades.

Jazzpunk · 3rd July 2008, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

Just got Protools here at work. I'm very quick with debreathing in cubase and Adobe Audition because I've set up keyboard short cuts to auto fade out quickly, short silence and then a quick fade back in.

I didn't really understand the method you were describing above. Are you saying that you leave silence between edits instead of filling gaps with room tone?

Brent Hahn · 3rd July 2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I didn't really understand the method you were describing above. Are you saying that you leave silence between edits instead of filling gaps with room tone?

Not to speak for Dave, but yes. If you're mixing commercials, chances are it's wall-to-wall music and fx, so you don't need room tone.

soundguydave · 3rd July 2008, 04:28 AM

If its a VO for a commercial generally there is no room tone needed. But when its someone on camera, I generally leave the breaths in, or just mix them down. It would look weird to see the actor taking a breath and not hear it.

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 04:40 AM

it's all radio production, mostly radio commercials on the AM band, so I don't use room tone, don't need it, even if it's just a cold voice commercial.

i tried just deleting no fades but you sometimes get little clicks and pops at the end and start of regions... this annoys me. i like everyhting to be very smooth and noise free. thanks for the help but.

Jazzpunk · 3rd July 2008, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

it's all radio production, mostly radio commercials on the AM band, so I don't use room tone, don't need it, even if it's just a cold voice commercial.

Got it.

What's the problem you are experiencing with the batch fades in Pro Tools? Have you tried defining different fade lengths or curves in the preferences?

Seems like using 'Strip Silence' along with finding the right fade length/curve will give you the results you are looking for.

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Got it.

What's the problem you are experiencing with the batch fades in Pro Tools? Have you tried defining different fade lengths or curves in the preferences? Might give you the results you are looking for.

not so much a problem... just wondering if ther was a better way.

for example, in adobe and cubase i have my "/" key assigned to a fade in and out, the amplitude looks a bit like this \__/. all i do is highlight the piece of audio press / and bam there's my fade. protools i have to press delete creating extra regions, it's just a bit messy for me, but if that's the way i got to do it then that's the way i got to do it.

am i making sence?

Jazzpunk · 3rd July 2008, 04:54 AM

If I'm understanding you correctly, you would first use 'Strip Silence' to quickly remove silent passages. You would then highlight the edited regions and hit 'F' on your keyboard to create fade ins/outs on all of the audio regions.

This not what you're trying to do?

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

If I'm understanding you correctly, you would first use 'Strip Silence' to quickly remove silent passages. You would then highlight the edited regions and hit 'F' on your keyboard to create fade ins/outs on all of the audio regions.

This not what you're trying to do?

pretty much... looking for the shortcut for strip silence now.

Jazzpunk · 3rd July 2008, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

pretty much... looking for the shortcut for strip silence now.

It's 'Apple+U' (located under the 'Edit' menu).

Also, make sure to have the 'Focus Keys' enabled in the tool bar or you will not have access to the 'one key' key commands.

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

It's 'Apple+U' (located under the 'Edit' menu).

Also, make sure to have the 'Focus Keys' enabled in the tool bar or you will not have access to the 'one key' key commands.

ah sweet, just a play with that for a few minutes, that will come in handy, just got to get the hang of it. it's kind of like the waves de-breather.

thanks mate.

Jazzpunk · 3rd July 2008, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

ah sweet, just a play with that for a few minutes, that will come in handy, just got to get the hang of it. it's kind of like the waves de-breather.

thanks mate.

No problem.

mikevarela · 3rd July 2008, 07:35 AM

You might also want to look at an expander, but slight. I know people use this for this type of thing. keep an eye on the threshold so that the you don't cut dialog. also be sure to just duck a little of the room out, not to much or you risk an unusual sounding open/close.

other than that, really ask yourself if you need to debreath. it can sound horribly unnatural if your looking at the actor speak on screen, and especially if the noise floor is almost non existant.

I usually take it on a per case basis, that way I can judge for myself, in this case i usually use a combination drag and delete and the A and S keys to trim left and right. also you can highlight the region you want and hit apple+t to trim to selection

Brent Hahn · 3rd July 2008, 07:40 AM

As you "just got Pro Tools," as D. Antix says, make sure you're in Command Focus mode. If PT is your new axe, the Command Focus shortcuts are the rudiments.

soundboy · 3rd July 2008, 07:44 AM

Under "preferences" -"operations", there is a selection for auto fades in cuts. You could set it for 4 ms and not need to bother with adding fades. If you are taking the session to another PT rig, you will need to set the preference on that machine too. Preferences don't stay with the session.

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikevarela

You might also want to look at an expander, but slight. I know people use this for this type of thing. keep an eye on the threshold so that the you don't cut dialog. also be sure to just duck a little of the room out, not to much or you risk an unusual sounding open/close.

other than that, really ask yourself if you need to debreath. it can sound horribly unnatural if your looking at the actor speak on screen, and especially if the noise floor is almost non existant.

I usually take it on a per case basis, that way I can judge for myself, in this case i usually use a combination drag and delete and the A and S keys to trim left and right. also you can highlight the region you want and hit apple+t to trim to selection

it's all for radio so yes i have to de-breath, if i was doing audio for picture things would be different. i'm not new to this, been doing it for 3 years... just haven't used protools for about 5 years and never for this type of thing.

the a and s short cuts could come in handy too, thanks.

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundboy

Under "preferences" -"operations", there is a selection for auto fades in cuts. You could set it for 4 ms and not need to bother with adding fades. If you are taking the session to another PT rig, you will need to set the preference on that machine too. Preferences don't stay with the session.

the only thing about fades in preferences i see is under edit... i should add i'm using LE not a TDM system... they're too cheap to buy us TDM here even though we are the flagship station of the network in the biggest market and our sister stations have TDM rigs... sigh...

Daniel Antix · 3rd July 2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundboy

Under "preferences" -"operations", there is a selection for auto fades in cuts. You could set it for 4 ms and not need to bother with adding fades. If you are taking the session to another PT rig, you will need to set the preference on that machine too. Preferences don't stay with the session.

yep found what you're talking about in my 201 manual (see at one point in time i did know how to use this) and that's only in the HD and MIX systems... d'oh!

thenewyear · 3rd July 2008, 08:23 AM

Another vote for using a gate/expander. Set the range to -12dB and tweak the attack and release/hold to taste.

This is what I do for music production anyway where you definitely need to leave some breath but if you need none just set the range to -18dB.

danijel · 3rd July 2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

not so much a problem... just wondering if ther was a better way.

for example, in adobe and cubase i have my "/" key assigned to a fade in and out, the amplitude looks a bit like this \__/. all i do is highlight the piece of audio press / and bam there's my fade. protools i have to press delete creating extra regions, it's just a bit messy for me, but if that's the way i got to do it then that's the way i got to do it.

am i making sence?

Hey Daniel,
can you please describe how you set that up?
I have a key for opening fade editor, and I have fade presets in it, so when I want to get a different fade, it's a two-step process with two mouse and two keyboard hits..... :(

postprosound · 3rd July 2008, 04:03 PM

Daniel,
If i get what you are saying, you are just looking for a quick way to apply these fades so as to prevent the clicks that are sometimes associated with 'hard edits' with no fades.
Please understand i'm going with the assumption that you are 'brand new' to Pro Tools, and if i say something that is obvious to you, i intend no offense.

First, try simply using the smart tool, which allows you to apply fades with the mouse. it's the long rectangle under the Hand, trim, and selector tools. You can also press any two of the F6, F7, or F8, at the same time. Move the cursor around the track and regions, note how it changes.

With it, you can highlight the breath, press delete, and then apply fades as needed.

Some prefer to work with keyboard shortcuts. After you highlight and delete the breath, and with your playhead between the two regions that you want to put fades on: press option + tab. this will take you the end of the first region. then press the comma key, this will move you back one unit of your nudge value. then press the 'G' key for a fade out. Then press tab until you are at the head of the next region, press the period key to move your playhead one 'nudge value' ahead, then the 'D' key to make a fade in. Once you get the hang of it, a person can use this method pretty quickly.

(As a note, the nudge value is set in the drop down directly below the main counter. for post on films, i normally use one frame, YMMV. The fades that we are talking about here do not need to be that long, under normal conditions. )

One other thing; I often scrub to make it easy to make my selections. With the transport stopped, move your cursor to the middle (up and down) of the track you want to scrub. The cursor becomes a capitol 'I' shape. now move it near the area in the region that you think the start of the offending breath is located. press and hold the control key. now move your mouse to the right. This will let you scrub. Keep holding the control key as you find the start of the breath, moving your mouse left and right as needed. When you find that point, with the control key still pressed. hold down the 'shift' key as well and scrub to the end of the offending breath. Let go of your mouse button, then let go of the control and shift keys. whammo, the breath is selected...

Again, if this is something you already know, then oops. if not, then this might make your life easier.

Drlove · 3rd July 2008, 04:27 PM

I edit by hand. Using fades when necessary. no gates to eat up my CPU just good clean edits.

Daniel Antix · 4th July 2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danijel

Hey Daniel,
can you please describe how you set that up?
I have a key for opening fade editor, and I have fade presets in it, so when I want to get a different fade, it's a two-step process with two mouse and two keyboard hits..... :(

kako si...

e my dad was born in Belgrade.

i just use the same preset fades for debreathing... in cubase my / key is bound to envelope where i have set up my fade out and in. when ever i need to de-breath i press / and enter and it's done. similar thing in adobe audition except there i don't have to press enter but i do have to stop the audio playing to debreath... in cubase it can continue playing.

minister · 4th July 2008, 01:57 AM

Guys:

There is a manual. And a shortcut list. PDF's that are searchable.

you need R & T for zoom, B for cut D & G for fades in and out F for cross.

seriously, sit down with the documentation to see how to do the things you want to do, and look up things that you already know how to do in Cubase in the PT manual and in the keyboard shortcut list.

Daniel Antix · 4th July 2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minister

Guys:

There is a manual. And a shortcut list. PDF's that are searchable.

you need R & T for zoom, B for cut D & G for fades in and out F for cross.

seriously, sit down with the documentation to see how to do the things you want to do, and look up things that you already know how to do in Cubase in the PT manual and in the keyboard shortcut list.

strip silence then consolidate is what i was looking for... i wasn't asking for shortcuts on how to do everything. no need to get pissy about it.

by reading this thread there are several different ways you can de-breath, different people use different methods... i don't think there is anything wrong with people sharing their techniques on here.

seansolo · 4th July 2008, 05:30 PM

stickers come with HD, right? I ordered a bunch of keyboard covers (kbcovers.com, I think) for PT ($20/ea) and these help keep the keyboard clean AND teach guys key commands (Like D / B / G etc). Some guys don't like the feel of the cover (too much condom on the keyboard); some prefer the stickers. Highly Reccommended. Makes you look/feel more pro, and it seems easier to pick up the shortcuts.

danijel · 4th July 2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Antix

kako si...

e my dad was born in Belgrade.
i just use the same preset fades for debreathing... in cubase my / key is bound to envelope where i have set up my fade out and in. when ever i need to de-breath i press / and enter and it's done. similar thing in adobe audition except there i don't have to press enter but i do have to stop the audio playing to debreath... in cubase it can continue playing.

Well, all I can say is your father did good for you to get the hell out of here! :))
I didn't have time to try the fades/keys thing out, but if I don't get it, I'll ask you for details in a PM, if you don't mind.

philper · 4th July 2008, 06:52 PM

Gotta say--that Cubase shortcut sounds very cool. I don't know that program at all but that's an impressively simple way to do something that I have to do all the time w/ VO.

Philip Perkins

swirlyd · 4th July 2008, 08:19 PM

I do mine manually as I find each case may need a different treatment (generally selcting breath, deleting and D/G for fades) - also, I generally shuffle the following word a bit closer back after a breath is removed to tighten things up, but obviously you need to listen and see what works and what doesn't. If a breath is too slurred with words, I just volume dip as much as possible. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I do like to do things on a case-by-case basis rather than batch edits/fades - it may take a little more time, but the end results are usually much better and you tend to listen to the project closely and make better decisions.

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3rd July 2008, 03:00 AM	#1
Daniel Antix Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 530	How do YOU de-breath in Protools? Just got Protools here at work. I'm very quick with debreathing in cubase and Adobe Audition because I've set up keyboard short cuts to auto fade out quickly, short silence and then a quick fade back in. I don't think I can do this in protools... so how do you guys de-breath in protools? atm i've been selecting and deleting the breath, after editing a whole section i then do a batch fade accross them all... but it's not as smooth or as fast as doing it in the other programs. So how do YOU do it? there has got to be a better way then what i'm doing. Thanks. __________________ www.danielantix.com

3rd July 2008, 04:01 AM	#2
soundguydave Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 244	I just select the breath and delete. If I need to, I slide the regions closer together. no fades. __________________ Dave Kaduk Particle Audio www.particleaudio.com

3rd July 2008, 04:28 AM	#5
soundguydave Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 244	If its a VO for a commercial generally there is no room tone needed. But when its someone on camera, I generally leave the breaths in, or just mix them down. It would look weird to see the actor taking a breath and not hear it. __________________ Dave Kaduk Particle Audio www.particleaudio.com

3rd July 2008, 04:40 AM	#6
Daniel Antix Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 530	it's all radio production, mostly radio commercials on the AM band, so I don't use room tone, don't need it, even if it's just a cold voice commercial. i tried just deleting no fades but you sometimes get little clicks and pops at the end and start of regions... this annoys me. i like everyhting to be very smooth and noise free. thanks for the help but. __________________ www.danielantix.com

3rd July 2008, 04:54 AM	#9
Jazzpunk Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,217	If I'm understanding you correctly, you would first use 'Strip Silence' to quickly remove silent passages. You would then highlight the edited regions and hit 'F' on your keyboard to create fade ins/outs on all of the audio regions. This not what you're trying to do?

3rd July 2008, 07:35 AM	#14
mikevarela Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 57	You might also want to look at an expander, but slight. I know people use this for this type of thing. keep an eye on the threshold so that the you don't cut dialog. also be sure to just duck a little of the room out, not to much or you risk an unusual sounding open/close. other than that, really ask yourself if you need to debreath. it can sound horribly unnatural if your looking at the actor speak on screen, and especially if the noise floor is almost non existant. I usually take it on a per case basis, that way I can judge for myself, in this case i usually use a combination drag and delete and the A and S keys to trim left and right. also you can highlight the region you want and hit apple+t to trim to selection

3rd July 2008, 07:40 AM	#15
Brent Hahn Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 366	As you "just got Pro Tools," as D. Antix says, make sure you're in Command Focus mode. If PT is your new axe, the Command Focus shortcuts are the rudiments. __________________ Brent Hahn http://www.radioactive.la

3rd July 2008, 07:44 AM	#16
soundboy Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 224	Under "preferences" -"operations", there is a selection for auto fades in cuts. You could set it for 4 ms and not need to bother with adding fades. If you are taking the session to another PT rig, you will need to set the preference on that machine too. Preferences don't stay with the session. __________________ Charles Dayton, C.A.S. Twisted Avocado Studios

3rd July 2008, 08:23 AM	#20
thenewyear Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 585	Another vote for using a gate/expander. Set the range to -12dB and tweak the attack and release/hold to taste. This is what I do for music production anyway where you definitely need to leave some breath but if you need none just set the range to -18dB. __________________ neil.

3rd July 2008, 04:03 PM	#22
postprosound Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 61	Daniel, If i get what you are saying, you are just looking for a quick way to apply these fades so as to prevent the clicks that are sometimes associated with 'hard edits' with no fades. Please understand i'm going with the assumption that you are 'brand new' to Pro Tools, and if i say something that is obvious to you, i intend no offense. First, try simply using the smart tool, which allows you to apply fades with the mouse. it's the long rectangle under the Hand, trim, and selector tools. You can also press any two of the F6, F7, or F8, at the same time. Move the cursor around the track and regions, note how it changes. With it, you can highlight the breath, press delete, and then apply fades as needed. Some prefer to work with keyboard shortcuts. After you highlight and delete the breath, and with your playhead between the two regions that you want to put fades on: press option + tab. this will take you the end of the first region. then press the comma key, this will move you back one unit of your nudge value. then press the 'G' key for a fade out. Then press tab until you are at the head of the next region, press the period key to move your playhead one 'nudge value' ahead, then the 'D' key to make a fade in. Once you get the hang of it, a person can use this method pretty quickly. (As a note, the nudge value is set in the drop down directly below the main counter. for post on films, i normally use one frame, YMMV. The fades that we are talking about here do not need to be that long, under normal conditions. ) One other thing; I often scrub to make it easy to make my selections. With the transport stopped, move your cursor to the middle (up and down) of the track you want to scrub. The cursor becomes a capitol 'I' shape. now move it near the area in the region that you think the start of the offending breath is located. press and hold the control key. now move your mouse to the right. This will let you scrub. Keep holding the control key as you find the start of the breath, moving your mouse left and right as needed. When you find that point, with the control key still pressed. hold down the 'shift' key as well and scrub to the end of the offending breath. Let go of your mouse button, then let go of the control and shift keys. whammo, the breath is selected... Again, if this is something you already know, then oops. if not, then this might make your life easier.

3rd July 2008, 04:27 PM	#23
Drlove Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germantown, MD, USA Posts: 175	I edit by hand. Using fades when necessary. no gates to eat up my CPU just good clean edits.

4th July 2008, 01:57 AM	#25
minister Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: minneapolis, mn Posts: 1,032	Guys: There is a manual. And a shortcut list. PDF's that are searchable. you need R & T for zoom, B for cut D & G for fades in and out F for cross. seriously, sit down with the documentation to see how to do the things you want to do, and look up things that you already know how to do in Cubase in the PT manual and in the keyboard shortcut list. __________________ tom hambleton C.A.S. *I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW GOOD THAT MIX LOOKS!* ministry of fancy noises

4th July 2008, 05:30 PM	#27
seansolo Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: DC Posts: 85	stickers come with HD, right? I ordered a bunch of keyboard covers (kbcovers.com, I think) for PT ($20/ea) and these help keep the keyboard clean AND teach guys key commands (Like D / B / G etc). Some guys don't like the feel of the cover (too much condom on the keyboard); some prefer the stickers. Highly Reccommended. Makes you look/feel more pro, and it seems easier to pick up the shortcuts. __________________ "Is it possible you just THOUGHT it might sound better than that?" ******* "Yeah, but does it help the chorus?" - Jim Ebert

4th July 2008, 06:52 PM	#29
philper Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 548	Gotta say--that Cubase shortcut sounds very cool. I don't know that program at all but that's an impressively simple way to do something that I have to do all the time w/ VO. Philip Perkins

4th July 2008, 08:19 PM	#30
swirlyd Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 54	I do mine manually as I find each case may need a different treatment (generally selcting breath, deleting and D/G for fades) - also, I generally shuffle the following word a bit closer back after a breath is removed to tighten things up, but obviously you need to listen and see what works and what doesn't. If a breath is too slurred with words, I just volume dip as much as possible. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I do like to do things on a case-by-case basis rather than batch edits/fades - it may take a little more time, but the end results are usually much better and you tend to listen to the project closely and make better decisions.