Impulse Responses + TL Space

[imgoinmad]

I've been using TL Space and it seems that there are a ton of post related IR's available for free which are made for use with Altiverb. It looks like TL Space can use 3rd party IR's...can i simply open these IR's made for Altiverb or do they need some type of conversion?

What are you post guys using? Anyone using TL Space or Altiverb or are there other great toys you've got?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

[seansolo]

Is it just me, or did TL Space become useless after 7.4cs3? (3 different macs). The snapshots started cutting on with white noise bursts or snaps, the presets all got 'lost' and I can't figure it out! I had to fall back on Revibe, but I plan on picking up Altiverb.

[Ambroise]

Originally Posted by seansolo

Is it just me, or did TL Space become useless after 7.4cs3? (3 different macs). The snapshots started cutting on with white noise bursts or snaps, the presets all got 'lost' and I can't figure it out! I had to fall back on Revibe, but I plan on picking up Altiverb.

I've no problem with TL Space and 7.4cs3 and i prefer it very much over altiverb

[jahtao]

Pleased you asked this!

It is my understanding that TL Space can use downloaded IR's (not sure about ones in altiverb format tho') but I have yet to work out how to import them. Its on my list.

But hey if you crack it, let a brother know!

In case you didn't know: There are lots of additional impulses not included with the TL Space installer available for free download from the digidesign website for registered users. Cheekily, these seem to be one's available for free elsewhere! They're all wrapped up in neat little TL Space format packages, nice... that have to be added one at a time, groan. But its worth it.

Matt

[jacobfarron]

I just picked up TL Space TDM for $149 on ebay. I love it so far! The only strange problem I have is the control surface loses communication with Pro Tools every time I use it. Haha, no idea whats going on there yet.

[Ambroise]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

I just picked up TL Space TDM for $149 on ebay. I love it so far! The only strange problem I have is the control surface loses communication with Pro Tools every time I use it. Haha, no idea whats going on there yet.

What do you mean by "the control surface loses communication with Pro Tools" ?

[jacobfarron]

I have a command 8 that I'm demoing at the studio. During a Pro Tools session, whenever I open the TL Space TDM plugin, the USB light on the Command 8 goes off and "Pro Tools has lost communication with the control device" etc. I have to power cycle the surface to get it back on. However, TL Space RTAS doesn't cause the problem. I'm talking to the guys at Digi about it... it's probably something related to my system only - as no one else seems to have this problem.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by imgoinmad

...can i simply open these IR's made for Altiverb or do they need some type of conversion?

No, it's a proprietary format, and it's probably even crypted, as some folks i know couldn't figure it. The only way to use an Altiverb response elsewhere (for now) is to play an impulse through the Altiverb, and record the response! It's not hard, because you can record only the wet output, so less trouble involved.

[ggegan]

I would love to be using AltiVerb and TL Space in my FX sessions, unfortunately I'm usually so close to the limit of my DSP that I don't have the horsepower for convolution reverb to be a possibility, at least in real time, and I'm working with 2 maxed out HD3s. My Dialogue partner uses TL and loves it, but I can't seem to find a way to fit it into my sessions. As it is, I often have to disable Dyn3 on my tracks and only enable it on the tracks that need it. I have also switched from Reverb 1 to ReVibe because it uses up about half the DSP resources, but it turns out I really like the way it sounds anyway.

I usually use 3 or 4 mono to stereo reverb returns for FX, 3 or 4 for BGs and 2 for Foley. Any more bogs down the system.

I guess I could use fewer reverb returns, but in the interest of speed I have each return preset to a default setting, ie. a small room (450-600msec), a larger room or hall (900-1.5msec), an exterior slap verb (500-700msec verb with lots of early reflections and 40-60msec predelay) and then a parking garage type verb backed off to about 2.5sec for distant horns and sirens. I also have a boom return.

This way all I have to do is unmute the tracks' appropriate send (preset at about -6dB) and I have the fundamental verbs I need instantaneously. Of course I adjust them if needed, but this gets me in the ballpark very quickly. If I switched to a convolution plugin, I think I'd have to abandon this approach which would slow me down considerably.

[jahtao]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I guess I could use fewer reverb returns, but in the interest of speed I have each return preset to a default setting, ie. a small room (450-600msec), a larger room or hall (900-1.5msec), an exterior slap verb (500-700msec verb with lots of early reflections and 40-60msec predelay) and then a parking garage type verb backed off to about 2.5sec for distant horns and sirens. I also have a boom return.

This way all I have to do is unmute the tracks' appropriate send (preset at about -6dB) and I have the fundamental verbs I need instantaneously. Of course I adjust them if needed, but this gets me in the ballpark very quickly. If I switched to a convolution plugin, I think I'd have to abandon this approach which would slow me down considerably.

Smart methodology, like it! I think you'd find the limited tweakability of convolution verbs a bit frustrating too.

But they are v cool, especially for emulating small speakers, car radios etc. one of the most satisfying parts of the job if you ask me. Love those, 'convolution rocks' moments! The right impulse response sounds sooo RIGHT. If you fancied a change you could try using just 1 of them to start with... project / DSP permitting... for your small room perhaps? They excel in this area and the smaller the IR, the lower the CPU hit.

Matt

[danijel]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I guess I could use fewer reverb returns, but in the interest of speed I have each return preset to a default setting, .....
...... If I switched to a convolution plugin, I think I'd have to abandon this approach which would slow me down considerably.

Gary, I find that alternating reverb presets in between scenes doesn't take much of my time. If you have 50 scenes, there's only 50 automation points to make over entire film - nothing compared to how much time you spend over each scene.
Two instances of surround altiverb 6 XL on FX sends covers everything for me, even situations where characters walk through different spaces, as I alternate between them (I make an automation point for each, while the other one is in use). With altiverb 5 there were only 10 presets available, but this version has 40 (per instance) - more than enough.
That said, there's a downside which involves a small to a big glitch when altiverb's loading presets (and thus impulses) during playback, depending on the impulse length. So, when I want to watch (glitch-free) the point where I automated a preset-change, I have to move the automation point and later remember to bring it back (or disable that instance of altiverb, which is not in use anyway - I switch presets only when the other instance is in use).
Of course, when I bounce (Nuendo, non-realtime), no glitches occur. I wonder how this problem is addressed in PT world with realtime export only?

[imgoinmad]

Originally Posted by danijel

No, it's a proprietary format, and it's probably even crypted, as some folks i know couldn't figure it. The only way to use an Altiverb response elsewhere (for now) is to play an impulse through the Altiverb, and record the response! It's not hard, because you can record only the wet output, so less trouble involved.

Sooooo, if TLSpace can handle 3rd party IR's but not Altiverb IR's, does anyone know who's making IR's compatible with TLSpace?

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by danijel

Gary, I find that alternating reverb presets in between scenes doesn't take much of my time. If you have 50 scenes, there's only 50 automation points to make over entire film - nothing compared to how much time you spend over each scene.
Two instances of surround altiverb 6 XL on FX sends covers everything for me, even situations where characters walk through different spaces, as I alternate between them (I make an automation point for each, while the other one is in use). With altiverb 5 there were only 10 presets available, but this version has 40 (per instance) - more than enough.
That said, there's a downside which involves a small to a big glitch when altiverb's loading presets (and thus impulses) during playback, depending on the impulse length. So, when I want to watch (glitch-free) the point where I automated a preset-change, I have to move the automation point and later remember to bring it back (or disable that instance of altiverb, which is not in use anyway - I switch presets only when the other instance is in use).
Of course, when I bounce (Nuendo, non-realtime), no glitches occur. I wonder how this problem is addressed in PT world with realtime export only?

My Dialogue partner usually records the reverb during predubs, which solves the glitch problem, but that would be too cumbersome for me.

I'm going to try experimenting with what you are suggesting. I will probably start by just using convolution for special situations where ReVibe doesn't sound convincing enough, for instance, exterior gun echo/verb is impossible with ReVibe. I also think that the futzes would be handy. If it works out then I will try more intensive use. Baby steps.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by ggegan

.... special situations where ReVibe doesn't sound convincing enough, for instance, exterior gun echo/verb is impossible with ReVibe.....

Funny you mention that. I was trying to make that same effect the other day with no luck I ended up panning the recorded tail front to rear, and just adding some Altiverb slapback.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by danijel

Funny you mention that. I was trying to make that same effect the other day with no luck I ended up panning the recorded tail front to rear, and just adding some Altiverb slapback.

I have never found anything that sounds as convincing as the real thing, so usually I just do what you did. However, I get the best results by combining a clean close up gunshot with a more distant echoey one. Sometimes I remove the transient from the echoey version. The echo can be bounced around separately from the gunshot. Then it's just a matter of finding the right balance.

I was hoping that convolution reverb would be able to accomplish this artificially, but it may not be possible.

[danijel]

Hmmm, I never recorded any impulses, but a lot of them are in fact recordings of a space response initiated by a starter pistol. So, the tail of a recorded gunshot could probably as well be used as an impulse response.

How different would it be to apply such a response to a gunshot as opposed to editing that same tail in, remains to be tried.
On a single shot, it wouldn't make sense, but it would probably work for several different shots or different types of guns in one space, as each one would make a little different tail.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by danijel

Hmmm, I never recorded any impulses, but a lot of them are in fact recordings of a space response initiated by a starter pistol. So, the tail of a recorded gunshot could probably as well be used as an impulse response.

How different would it be to apply such a response to a gunshot as opposed to editing that same tail in, remains to be tried.
On a single shot, it wouldn't make sense, but it would probably work for several different shots or different types of guns in one space, as each one would make a little different tail.

When we hired Saulter acoustics to analyze a dub stage prior to remodeling, we used weather balloons to get reverb readings. I would stand in front of the screen and pop the balloon with a buck knife while the guy from Saulter took the readings at the console. The pop was loud enough to excite the room, but very short in duration.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by danijel

No, it's a proprietary format, and it's probably even crypted, as some folks i know couldn't figure it. The only way to use an Altiverb response elsewhere (for now) is to play an impulse through the Altiverb, and record the response! It's not hard, because you can record only the wet output, so less trouble involved.

I am not sure about the newer Altiverb presets, but some older ones certainly do work in TL space without re-recording them!

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I am not sure about the newer Altiverb presets, but some older ones certainly do work in TL space without re-recording them!

I'm with Altiverb since version 5.x, and file-format is same as with 6XL. Maybe than there was some even earlier version with different file-format?
......
I just did some math against the current file-format to check if I'm not saying anything stupid:
the newest impulse addition from the Audioease's site is 'Gol Stave Wood Chapel'. Its mono-to-mono impulse is 1.83 sec long, and it's 48kHz. If you make an uncompressed file of 48kHz - 16bit - mono - 1.83 sec, it would turn out about 180kb. The impulse file is actually 108kb, so it must be compressed (lossless probably). That means it isn't any of the standard file-formats (wav, aif, raw etc), so it's in fact 'crypted'. It may not be a first-class encryption, but good enough to eliminate using them out of Altiverb.

[Geert van den Berg]

Danijel and I did a little test.

The new impulses from Altiverb do not work in TL space.

The older ones that I've used, were also in some sort of Raw format and did work, but they probably changed something in order to keep them exclusive to Altiverb, which I would find a logical step from Audio Ease.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

... but they probably changed something in order to keep them exclusive to Altiverb, which I would find a logical step from Audio Ease.

While I really don't like closed formats, I certainly understand that move, since Altiverb is only worth as much as it's library.

[guavatone]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Danijel and I did a little test.

The new impulses from Altiverb do not work in TL space.

The older ones that I've used, were also in some sort of Raw format and did work, but they probably changed something in order to keep them exclusive to Altiverb, which I would find a logical step from Audio Ease.

Isn't this as simple as SD2 Altiverb files working with TL Space.


Also, does anyone know if the TL SPace TDM that comes up on ebay is apgradable by digidesign?

[mikevarela]

using TL Space here. Mac 7.4.2 no problems, love the presets for phones and radios...

Just did a search the other day for some IR's and got a small pack on the web for free, inside car stuff along with older radios.

Really like the plug

[jacobfarron]

It's ironic to see this post here. I just listed my iLok license for TL Space TDM on ebay tonight. $135 if anyone wants it!

[jimlongo]

I didn't digest every word of this thread, but i will say I've been using TL Space Native for quite a while. Jacob I may look into your TL Space TDM . . .

Anyway if you use Snapshot automation there are no glitches. Once you get the hang of that it's pretty easy to do. The only drawback is you can only have 10 snapshots per instance per session.

TL Space Native doesn't use much processor power so i'm sure you could get 3 or 4 of them going with a decent computer (dualG5 or better Intel). The other drawback to the Native version is it is only stereo, no 5.1 (you need the TDM version for that).

I got a lot of free IRs that I downloaded from Fokke van Saane
Impulse responses

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Danijel and I did a little test.

The new impulses from Altiverb do not work in TL space.

The older ones that I've used, were also in some sort of Raw format and did work, but they probably changed something in order to keep them exclusive to Altiverb, which I would find a logical step from Audio Ease.

I started with Altiverb back in Version 3.0 and it was either in version 4 or version 5 that they started encrypting the IR's. If you have earlier versions of the IR's will work as you said. I have kept a drive of the original IR's around for that very reason.

I use both all the time. I think TL Space has a lot of potential but it seems that Digi hasn't done anything with it since buying out the company. Audio Ease has made their IR's encrypted for a number of reasons. The main one being they are ALWAY out making new IR's and posting them on their website. This of course costs a fair amount of money and time. They deserve to keep the rights to them. As long as they continue to add new IR's I will continue to give them my money for updates.

Michael Greene