The Necessity of Dolby Certification?

[seanmccoy]

Hi all. Just got an email from a distribution/production company for whom I'm finishing some film mixes, asking me if it was really necessary to go to a dub stage and get the Dolby seal of approval. I believe they were only planning for a limited release, probably with targeted markets involving promotional events surrounding the showing of the film. Nevertheless, not counting the facts that I've been paid to create a 5.1 theatrical mix, I've busted my butt to do it well, and the "stamp of legitimacy" that would be missing, what exactly are the limitations skipping the Dolby printmastering would create? I assume the film can't be shown in surround without it, but are there any other problems to be aware of?

I don't really know what to tell them, so any advice appreciated.

[jacobfarron]

I'm very interested in this topic as well.

[seanmccoy]

Anybody? Specifically, I'd like to know if the lack of the Dolby track would prevent them from showing the film in major theaters. Does having a stereo-only audio track limit showings to art houses and other filmfest-like rooms? I'm hoping the answer is yes so I can tell them unequivocally what a bad idea this is!

[Jesse Peterson]

What medium is the film set to be distributed on?

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Jesse Peterson

What medium is the film set to be distributed on?

Film. It was shot in HD and there was at one point some talk about digital-only distribution, but that was abandoned.

[jrfountain]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Anybody? Specifically, I'd like to know if the lack of the Dolby track would prevent them from showing the film in major theaters. Does having a stereo-only audio track limit showings to art houses and other filmfest-like rooms? I'm hoping the answer is yes so I can tell them unequivocally what a bad idea this is!

From what I understand, if it's releasing on 35mm then the only way you'll get a 5.1 surround mix onto that film is by creating either a Dolby Digital or DTS printmaster to marry to the print. You would also create an analog LtRt (LCRS) mix that serves as a backup on the print should the Dolby Digital go offline during a screening.

I am by no means an expert on all this but I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chime in soon.

JR

[Jesse Peterson]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Film. It was shot in HD and there was at one point some talk about digital-only distribution, but that was abandoned.

You definitely need a real deal holyfield dolby print to pull off surround. I don't think there is anyway around it. Maybe call around and see if there's a facility that will do it with out a Dolby rep there? Sometimes low level staff will hook you up on the off hours.. I don't really think that is a good idea though and I wouldn't suggest that possibility to the client.

[georgia]

if you want to printmaster to Dolby or DTS for 35mm you have to pay the fees. If you want to do an LtRt mix you do not have to. pretty simple actually. If you want to printmaster with Dolby you "normally" need to do it in an approved room. Same with DTS. But, both are sometimes willing to chat, depending on the project. if you are going digital intermediary or digital playback in the theatre you can do a Dolby-E or Dolby-AC3 encode to HDcam or similar digital deck, or even just do a 6 track layback to a HDCAM-SR or digital tape that has 6 or 8 tracks. Alot depends on the final playback requirements. You can just do a DVD release and play it in the theatre....wouldn't be the first time.

cheers
geo

[jacobfarron]

A clarification: If the end product is not a 35mm Printmaster, but instead a digital intermediary to be played in theaters, does the Motion Picture Agreement forms have to be filled out and fee's paid? ie: Dolby AC3 played from HDCam or DigiBeta deck hooked up in theaters film fest style.

[Lake]

As far as I understand it, and I think there may be differences between The US and the rest of the world, if you want to produce a Dolby Digital soundtrack for a film print, then you have to at least final-mix in a DD approved studio. You can pre-mix in a non-certified room, but the final-mix and print-mastering must take place in an approved room.

To produce a film AC-3 soundtrack you need to either print-master through the DS10 or DMU Dolby mastering systems. These encoders are the property of Dolby Labs and therefore they have control over the film print-mastering process and can enforce the above as a quality control/standardisation process.

To produce a DVD via "consumer" style AC-3 I don't believe that a license is required beyond actually owning the hardware/software encoder.

You could put an uncompressed 6-track on an HD tape, but just need to be sure that theatres it will screen in will have 6-track analogue input to the cinema processor.

[Fredo]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

A clarification: If the end product is not a 35mm Printmaster, but instead a digital intermediary to be played in theaters, does the Motion Picture Agreement forms have to be filled out and fee's paid? ie: Dolby AC3 played from HDCam or DigiBeta deck hooked up in theaters film fest style.

No, at that point you can do whatever you want (need to stay within the loudness specs though ...) as long as you don't use the Dolby logo.

But you'll have to "decode" your 5.1 stream to discrete, analog audiostreams before you hit the theatre equipment. Unless the theatre is especially equipped for that accepting AC3 or other streams.

Also be careful with Lt_Rt. As soon as the theatre decoders detect an Lt_Rt stream, they will decode it into LCRS. Know that Dolby SR (the analog backup stream on a 35mm) is encoded with the Dolby SR noise reduction system. Which means that if your Lt_Rt mix isn't SR encoded, the result after decoding will sound *very* bad.

This means that you'll have to find out at the theatre what is going on and how they are planning to do this.

Unless you mix for the certified digital projectors. Then the audio and video needs to be encoded by a Dolby SCC2000 Secure Content Creator. In this case you need to deliver discrete or interleaved files (24 fps) to the "authoring house". Here you do need to keep a close eye to levels, especially for commercials and trailers which need to be mixed against a certified Leq(m) meter like the Dolby 737.

HTH
Fredo

[georgia]

Fredo is correct.



cheers
geo

[jacobfarron]

Thank you.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Fredo

But you'll have to "decode" your 5.1 stream to discrete, analog audiostreams before you hit the theatre equipment.

suppose you decode, and have 6 analog channels.... how do you 'hit' theater equipment with 6 discrete channels? Dolby CP650 only has a stereo aux input. maybe with some expansion cards?

[jacobfarron]

I patched a mixer straight into the amps once. Haha. Probably not ideal.

Also, a Dolby rep in NY returned my call and triple confirmed that anything other than a 35mm printmaster does not require MPA (as long as it doesn't display logo), and they're sending me requirements for approval on the mix room. I believe I can forward those to any interested.

[Fredo]

Originally Posted by danijel

suppose you decode, and have 6 analog channels.... how do you 'hit' theater equipment with 6 discrete channels? Dolby CP650 only has a stereo aux input. maybe with some expansion cards?

There is no standard or easy way of doing this, unless the theatre has modified their setup for screening other stuff than 35mm. In Belgium, we will be 100% didgital (no more 35mm) by the end of this year and the Theatres already offer many non-cinema content to their customers. Like premieres of popular TV series, "Orange Carpet" premieres of Straight_to_DVD content, events where video/DVD or something like that is needed, or to keep it much more simple, using a microphone in the theatre for presentations or Film premieres. There is even a thing called XL Gaming where people can come and play their Playstation on the big screen. (Pretty impressive I must say ...)

So Belgian theatres (or better these of the Kinepolis Group) are already equiped with "inputs" for any kind of audio source.

Fredo