SFX recording mic for MS

[meathman]

I am looking to setup a portable m/s rig to use along with my sound devices 722 as mainly a sfx field recording rig for recording ambiences, nature sounds, etc

I have a sanken css5 which i like for certain things, but I find that it can be fairly noisy for lower volume sounds...

I have narrowed my selection down to 2 choices, 1. a schoeps cmc6 pair with mk4 and mk8 capsules (cardoid, and fig8) or 2. a sennheiser mkh30 and mkh 40 rig....

I hear great things about both....

I need a versatile mic with a VERY low self noise, that above all SOUNDS GREAT....

Thanks

[philper]

Originally Posted by meathman

I am looking to setup a portable m/s rig to use along with my sound devices 722 as mainly a sfx field recording rig for recording ambiences, nature sounds, etc

I have a sanken css5 which i like for certain things, but I find that it can be fairly noisy for lower volume sounds...

I have narrowed my selection down to 2 choices, 1. a schoeps cmc6 pair with mk4 and mk8 capsules (cardoid, and fig8) or 2. a sennheiser mkh30 and mkh 40 rig....

I hear great things about both....

I need a versatile mic with a VERY low self noise, that above all SOUNDS GREAT....

Thanks

The Senn. you mention are very low noise, and pretty impervious to moisture issues (a bigger deal when the system is cranked way open to record quiet sounds) and RF (as in cel phones). I like Schoeps sound better, but if you use them out in nature then you need to have a backup along.

Philip Perkins

[danijel]

take a look at this recent thread over at the remote forum:
Mini Mid-Side Field Rig?

[danijel]

also, i read somewhere mk21 is preferred over mk4 for mid microphone, because it has better low frequency reception, so maybe think about that too.

[meathman]

seems like for nature/field the sennheisers seem to be the fav.

Sound wise the schoeps seem to be the winner . Is the sound quality of the schoeps that much better ....

[minister]

The Senn's (MKH) are noticeably quieter. nature recordists don't like to use Noise Reduction. When you crank the gain, you bring up the noise floor.

Are the Schoeps noisy? Not really. But when you want to record very quiet sources, their self-noise will become evident. Does it matter in the context of a film or video or commercial. often not. sometimes, yes.

I own both the Schoeps CMC6-U's mk4 and recently the Senn MKH 40. For quiet foley, I now prefer the MKH. Their sound is different. The Schoeps have, to my ear, a thicker upper mid-range, a "blend" if you will. I have read some users calling it grainy. The other thing is their impedance is 35 Ohm and are noticeably different with a more impedance matched pre. They are much clearer at a lower impedance.

There are trade-offs. The Schoeps sound beautiful. But that are not prefect. the Senn's have a clarity and detail that is nice, but they have a lower range that feels different. not tubby, but, they have a thicker feel to the lower end and the high end sounds different, not as full.

Geez, though, at that point, either one works well!

but you said,

I need a versatile mic with a VERY low self noise, that above all SOUNDS GREAT....

I would say the MKH40/30 combo.

(but you will pry my Schoeps out of my cold, dead hands)

[meathman]

Thanks minister, That information is very helpful...

I actually think im gonna go with the senn's ....

Ive actually been reading rave reviews for the new sennheiser 8000 series.... they have the same low self noise as the MKH 40 and many people are saying they have 'corrected' that low mid range 'smear' you mentioned .....

I even read on a post here on gearslutz that many people are saying the sound quality itself has finally raised the bar to or above the schoeps level ...

All this and they are cheaper than the mkh 30/40 and a fraction of the size....

Too bad there is no FIG 8 capsule YET (although one is planned) ..if there were, this would solve all my problems....

any experience for anyone yet on taking these new mkh 8000 mics out into the field???

[dogandpony]

I have the 8040 on order, I'll try to post some samples and thoughts once it arrives. On another note, anyone have any experience with the Sony ECM680S?

[Airon]

Chipping in, my absolute favorite is the Beyerdynamic MC-833. It's a big one, but also very flexible. You get both MS and X-Y plus width setting.

It's probably difficult to get a good windshield for it, but I've made some fine recordings with it. I recommend a weekend rent at the very least.

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by meathman

Thanks minister, That information is very helpful...

I actually think im gonna go with the senn's ....

Ive actually been reading rave reviews for the new sennheiser 8000 series.... they have the same low self noise as the MKH 40 and many people are saying they have 'corrected' that low mid range 'smear' you mentioned .....

I even read on a post here on gearslutz that many people are saying the sound quality itself has finally raised the bar to or above the schoeps level ...

All this and they are cheaper than the mkh 30/40 and a fraction of the size....

Too bad there is no FIG 8 capsule YET (although one is planned) ..if there were, this would solve all my problems....

any experience for anyone yet on taking these new mkh 8000 mics out into the field???

Sennheiser Worldwide: MKH 800 TWIN Nx - MKH 800 TWIN Nx

is this the figure 8 mic you were referencing? or is senn going to release an 80xx head that is fig-8? it (the MKH 800) actually isn't really just a fig-8, but 2 back to back cardioid modules... which you can adjust on your mixer to be cardioid, super/hyper-cardioid, omni, figure-8, wide carioid, etc... it looks really interesting and quite useful.

I'd like to hear from any 30/40/50/800 users and get some of your feedback on quality. I'm very interested.

[meathman]

Actually , sennheiser is going to release a fig 8 capsule for the 8000 series in the future, but not date has been set yet..

I have actually had a chance to demo the senn mkh 30/40 as an ms set and have been very impressed. They wouldnt be my 1st choice for instruments or even hard fx (car bys, impacts, etc) for this I would choose the schoeps probably because they have a better hi and upper mid freq. balance and have better and more accurate off axis response (giving them the appearance of more 'presence'

With that said the mkh30/40 has a substantially lower self noise , higher sensitivity and has a better response for lower mid freq. ... There couldnt be a better pair of mics for nature / outdoor recordings and for that reason they have become a standard for nature recordists.

With the 8030 (fig 8) still over a year away , i guess we'll have to wait and see whether the 8030/8040 combo outperforms the 30/40

[Kewl]

Originally Posted by meathman

Actually , sennheiser is going to release a fig 8 capsule for the 8000 series in the future, but not date has been set yet.

I met last week with a Sennheiser representative, direct from Hannover, responsible for the MKH line (we joked around that he was responsible for any microphone with a "K" in its name, which in fact seemed to be right).

When he asked me what I'd do the the MKH 8000 line, I simply said "add a fig-8". While he said that they were considering it, there was no definite plan for it.

- Kewl