DVD sync question

[philper]

If an editor or client makes me a DVD-video, a "normal" video DVD (referred to in editorese as a "viewing copy") off their FCP system via FCP's own DVD app or Compressor, and I play it back on a DVD player that has external sync refed to house sync....do I have a time-correct playback, that would match exactly the running time of the project on the editor's system, and an OMF exported by that system? IE can I use the DVD-video given this sort of playback like a videotape being played back on a deck locked to house sync? This seems like it ought to work...but I don't know what I don't know.

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by philper

If an editor or client makes me a DVD-video, a "normal" video DVD (referred to in editorese as a "viewing copy") off their FCP system via FCP's own DVD app or Compressor, and I play it back on a DVD player that has external sync refed to house sync....do I have a time-correct playback, that would match exactly the running time of the project on the editor's system, and an OMF exported by that system? IE can I use the DVD-video given this sort of playback like a videotape being played back on a deck locked to house sync? This seems like it ought to work...but I don't know what I don't know.

Philip Perkins

Should be OK, although Dolby Digital can be shorter or longer by a few subframes. Do you have a player that will locate to TC and can lock to house sync? Muxed MPEG2 should be as reliable as MPEG2. Given the nature of the codec, however, you won't necessarily have frame accuracy.

But, yeah, when I was working on the Spanish versions of "Veggietales" (with no script, just Spanish dialog sort of laid in place), I'd often search the English DVDs to verify that the dialog matched the placement when the characters weren't on screen. Really saved my bacon because I was importing PT 5.0 into 6.9 and got hit with the bug that collapsed files to sections a few samples long.

[philper]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Should be OK, although Dolby Digital can be shorter or longer by a few subframes. Do you have a player that will locate to TC and can lock to house sync? Muxed MPEG2 should be as reliable as MPEG2. Given the nature of the codec, however, you won't necessarily have frame accuracy.

But, yeah, when I was working on the Spanish versions of "Veggietales" (with no script, just Spanish dialog sort of laid in place), I'd often search the English DVDs to verify that the dialog matched the placement when the characters weren't on screen. Really saved my bacon because I was importing PT 5.0 into 6.9 and got hit with the bug that collapsed files to sections a few samples long.

Thanks KK, I was hoping you'd see my post. I don't know about locating to TC, or how that even works on DVD-video. But the player will take ext. sync (Pioneer V7400). What I want is for the playback running time to be the same as the OMF export within a frame over 60 min., which is about as accurate as my DV camcorder playing back w/o ext.sync has been, and way more accurate than DVD playing in either a consumer player or off my laptop, in my experience.

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by philper

Thanks KK, I was hoping you'd see my post. I don't know about locating to TC, or how that even works on DVD-video. But the player will take ext. sync (Pioneer V7400). What I want is for the playback running time to be the same as the OMF export within a frame over 60 min., which is about as accurate as my DV camcorder playing back w/o ext.sync has been, and way more accurate than DVD playing in either a consumer player or off my laptop, in my experience.

Philip Perkins

Yes, there are reasons why a DVD would be inaccurate, depending on how it is authored. You usually leave a couple of seconds of black so anything AC3 can be recognized by the decoder. Also, again, MPEG2 is lossy, so a frame from your camera with someone moving may very well look different if you stop frame the DVD.

There's also the amusing thing that video TC considers the whole frame (like a whole 30th of second), while in audio, we think of TC stopping at the top of the frame. That's how you can get 1 frame errors when sending audio to a video editor.

[philper]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Yes, there are reasons why a DVD would be inaccurate, depending on how it is authored. You usually leave a couple of seconds of black so anything AC3 can be recognized by the decoder. Also, again, MPEG2 is lossy, so a frame from your camera with someone moving may very well look different if you stop frame the DVD.

There's also the amusing thing that video TC considers the whole frame (like a whole 30th of second), while in audio, we think of TC stopping at the top of the frame. That's how you can get 1 frame errors when sending audio to a video editor.

Do you have a suggestion for how they should author the DVD off FCP? (For accuracy, I mean.)

thanks

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by philper

Do you have a suggestion for how they should author the DVD off FCP? (For accuracy, I mean.)

thanks

Philip Perkins

Well, exporting via Compressor is not the fastest, but it re-renders everything and I think it's more accurate (looks, better than exporting via QT also). If you look at Compressor there are presets for highest quality, etc., so depending on the length, I'd go with one of those and then author in DVDSP. They really need to work in FCS2. There are a lot of problems that have been fixed.

That Pioneer player looks very cool, BTW. Is there an overwhelming reason why you don't just want to export to a DVNTSC mov? I always work that way and then author the DVD by going back and exporting the video via Compressor. Then I author in DVDSP. I know DVNTSC makes some big files, but I just run it from a FW drive.

Actually, a lot of times I just batch export to MPEG2, and DVNTSC and AIFF from the FCP project so I have a lot of assets to check against.

[philper]

This is all about getting a usable piece of video from clients who can't or won't learn their systems. A lot of older editors are wonderful storytellers but came to FCP late in their careers and are often left alone with systems they don't own and don't understand very well beyond simple cut making etc.. They can usually figure out how to make DVDs (they have to, for viewing copies), but I've had a lot of trouble lately with well intentioned but goofy QTs. I still like having my final mix hirez video on my Doremi and not on the DAW, so I need to be able to do a sync playout of some video to record onto it. NONE of these people have tape decks as part of their systems anymore (rent to digitize, or are working from P2 etc), so getting a videotape ref is sort of becoming impossible. I don't want to buy any more VTRs. So I was hoping to get the DVD to take the place of a videotape. Thanks for yr help.

Philip Perkins

[minister]

Why not use MPEG Streamclip and make a QT?

[jacobfarron]

I've had to copy DVD's to BetaSp before and lock to that deck. Then you have complete control. But as others have mentioned, it's easier to rip it into a Quicktime.

[philper]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

I've had to copy DVD's to BetaSp before and lock to that deck. Then you have complete control. But as others have mentioned, it's easier to rip it into a Quicktime.

Not if I want to play the video on a V1. Tonight I was able to get an 80 min film to playback off the DVD player into the V1 (all in ext sync) and it held sync with perfectly against the QT and the OMF export.

Philip Perkins

[philper]

KK: sent you an email about the V7400--thanks for yr help.

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by philper

KK: sent you an email about the V7400--thanks for yr help.

Philip Perkins

You're very welcome...I think it's extremely cool that the combo works. Better than shipping a FW drive; that's for sure.