Anybody talk to dolby at NAB about the Dolby Media Meter?

[postprosound]

Or does anybody have any more info about it?

[soundboy]

http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/
Looks like it's here.

[jacobfarron]

What the hell? I just bought my LM100 this morning.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

What the hell? I just bought my LM100 this morning.

oh, man!

[jacobfarron]

I'm looking at the software... is this as capable as the hardware unit? I can't tell if it's a Plugin for ProTools or a stand alone product. It looks like it's more of a verify your mix product... I don't think you can mix to it in realtime like the LM100. Or maybe I'd just like to justify my purchase. Haha

[TVPostSound]

It states:
Dolby Media Meter plug-in for AudioTools AWE will be avaialbe later this year.

AudioTools AWE retails for $395 and is available through MASI's international network of pro audio resellers, and https://secure.minnetonkasoftware.com/store. For more information please visit Surround sound encoding and DVD-Audio authoring - Minnetonka Audio Software

I DOES NOT state the price of the plug-in, only the AudioTools AWE.

[hociman]

It also exists as an RTAS/AudioSuite plug-in. This is how it was shown at Dolby's booth.

The plug-in uses ITU-R BS.1770 metering for the dialnorm. The LM100 usese LEQ(a). The LM 100 will be updated so that you can choose ITU-R BS.1770, however the plug-in will not allow you to choose LEQ(a).

[kkfaudio]

"The plug-in uses ITU-R BS.1770 metering for the dialnorm. The LM100 uses LEQ(a)."

Since LEQ(a) is the usual spec, does this mean the Media Tools can't do the job right? How does the ITU spec relate to LEQ(a)? Is the ITU spec more or less strict - or just totally different in the end?

I am also hovering near the purchase of an LM100, but would love to explore other options....

Thanks!
Kevin

[danijel]

Originally Posted by hociman

The plug-in uses ITU-R BS.1770 metering for the dialnorm. The LM100 usese LEQ(a). The LM 100 will be updated so that you can choose ITU-R BS.1770, however the plug-in will not allow you to choose LEQ(a).

does this mean they're shifting to ITU, or that they still want to sell hardware?

[hociman]

I take it to mean that they are shiftin towards ITU-R BS.1770. The t.c.electronic meter also uses ITU-R BS.1770. Other meter manufacturers are looking into ITU-R BS.1770. I don't know if every last bit of the ITU-R spec is nailed down and final, but its close enough that Dolby, t.c., etc. feel they can implement it. Even if something were to be tweaked, its easier to fix software than hardware.

[soundboy]

Yes, but if the networks are still using the LM 100, What difference does it make? We'll still be stuck with Leq(a). Or am I missing something?

[philper]

I'll change if the network specs change. There are still specs that specify the LM100, meaning that's what they use in QC. There have been so many LM100s sold to networks and post facilities that I see them updating firmware before they go to a different box or a plug in. The box thing seems like it would work better for an MCR setup, since you can easily patch different feeds thru it.

Philip Perkins

[jacobfarron]

Good to hear... I was also thinking it would be better to have the LM100 box so it wouldn't tie up a Pro Tools rig just to check dialnorm of outside client tapes - that workflow would require digitizing the tape and running it through the software. But I do see how the software could be faster than realtime for a complete program if it hadn't been laid back yet.

Anyhow... just some thoughts. I really hope the $2200 we just spent doesn't become obsolete in a month.

[postprosound]

What kind of difference, practically speaking, is there between LEQ(a) and ITU-R BS.1770? I mean, lets say the you did a show, and it came up on the lm100 as 27, what would it measure as with ITU-R BS.1770?

[jacobfarron]

Guess what? My Dolby dealer called me to today with a price discrepancy in my quote that I've already accepted and paid for. So now they say my LM100-LTC is going to cost $600 more than the original quote. And they're holding it until I decide if I want to continue. Anyone have an inside info about the plugin? Any ideas of cost? Usefulness verses the box? Or is anyone have a contact at Dolby I could call? I obviously don't want to sink almost 3k into this box if something is about to change and the box will no longer be used.

[ndogg]

I just searched and read this:

Dolby | Professional Audio/Broadcast | DTV Audio Update

From that link:
"Speech-based measurements (produced with the LM100’s Dialogue Intelligence feature enabled) made on a given sample of programming—using both Leq(A) and ITU-R Rec. BS.1770—have shown that, while BS.1770 is slightly more accurate than Leq(A), the average difference is fairly small (see Figures 1 and 2 for the results of these comparisons). The comparison data in these figures suggest that the average absolute error (AAE) has decreased by only 0.27 dB and the maximum absolute error (MAE) has decreased by 1.3 dB (for the samples used in this comparison). "

They also mention that they plan to add the BS.1770 algorithm to the LM100 in the future. So if you already have the LM100, you should be safe. And in the meantime you have the standard measurement tool. But if you don't have someone breathing down your neck to use the LM100 right now, you may be able to wait for the software and by the time it's out, maybe the networks will be using BS.1770 as the new standard measurement and there will be no need for the LM100. Mabye....

[jacobfarron]

jazzmila
over at the DUC writes:

According to an email I received from Dolby today, the Dolby Media Meter will be available later this summer for $795 through their resellers/dealers, which is a great deal considering the LM100 goes for over $3k!

I'm trying to get a copy of that email myself! And I've got a few calls into Dolby... hopefully someone calls me back. I'm thinking seriously about canceling my order if this is accurate. The only downside I could see is if it's a real processor hog and not TDM... and I only see it mentioned as RTAS.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

The only downside I could see is if it's a real processor hog and not TDM... and I only see it mentioned as RTAS.

you can buy a whole computer just to run this plugin (free vsthost -> rtas-vst wrapper), and it's still 1/3 price of LM100.

[danijel]

looks like there's a free ITU BS.1770 meter for PC:
Orban releases Loudness Meter software « Analogue/Digital

surround version will not be free.

download here: Index of /meter

i will try this thing today if it's vst (but if somebody has a LM100 and a PC, a direct comparison would be good)
does anybody know anything about this company?

interesting doc about loudness controll with some history:
http://www.orban.com/support/orban/t...%20Picture.pdf

[hociman]

Originally Posted by danijel

does anybody know anything about this company?

Bob Orban was at CBS. I don't remember if he or CBS owns what was done in the 1960's, but Bob was involved in the very first devices that, unfortunately, led to our ability to wage the loudness wars of the last 10+ years.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by danijel

i will try this thing today if it's vst

it's not vst, not asio. it works with windows default sound systems (direct sound and mme), but i couldn't get it to work. there are almost no settings, except for the sound input selection, and a big 'start/stop' button.

did anyone else try it?

p.s. if it would work at all, one could make it work with asio through virtual audio cable software.

[Jesse Peterson]

I'm playing with the Orban meter right now. True it's not vst. I created a buss that is going to my computer's sound card and am running some dialog through it.

First thing I'm noticing ( and I'm not experienced enough with LM100 to know the difference) I'm running some dialog through it that I know is averaging -31 and the ITU BS.1770 meter at it's longest setting (10seconds) seems to be performing as I'd hoped and bouncing btw -7 and -13. I'm going to keep this around .

Vu meter reads 0.6db hot compared to my all my other meters.

[jumpnyc]

looks like this is launching $795 in this month's Mix Mag

Dolby - Dolby Media Meter Overview - Professional Software Tool for Measuring Loudness in Programming

[jacobfarron]

According the to Dolby site the BS.1770 update for the LM100 is also available now for $10.

[mikevarela]

In case anyone is revisiting this, have a listen to the newest CAS presentation, it's a sticky