Two questions about dialogue

[shilshoolon]

I was wondering if i could get a second opinion from you guys.
I'm working on a short film with really badly recorded dialogue which was recorded directly into a camera. The sound is really flat, noisy and digital.

My music technology teacher suggested that i run everything into a manley compressor to give it color but not compression. Would you recommend doing this or should I just use the waves R compressor to compress the dialogue and leave it digital sounding? Can the manley improve the sound of the cheap digital recording and give it life or will it just sound worse with extra noise?

I need to do a DVD level mix for the dialogue and i was told to put a limiter to stop the peaks from passing 25dbfs, would that be too much limiting?

Thanks,

Shil

[TVPostSound]

Compression is rarely used, especially on dialogue.

Really, I've doing it wrong the last 20 years???

[shilshoolon]

Thanks, I cleaned the sound as much as possible and Eq'd all the really nasty stuff out.

[bkositzky]

Originally Posted by TVPostSound

Really, I've doing it wrong the last 20 years???

In comparison to the music world compression isn't used NEARLY as frequently. Yes, I use compression as well on dialogue, but not to the extent of mix engineers. I should've put what I said in context, my apologizes (20 years>5 Years...haha). I've worked in radio post back in Chicago and I've seen editors and mixers use brick-wall limiting on dialogue, although it's used as an effect sometimes it's a little too much on occasion.

[jacobfarron]

I'm curious what the 'digital sound' to be removed is? For whatever reason, I always associate that phrase with either 1) comb filtering and phasing from two sources played back mono or 2) low bit rate and quantization noise

... what's your description?

[jahtao]

I can't see the point, really, of running shitty dialog thru the Manley. But I guess you wont know unless you try.

For me, post is less about subtle colouration and more about directly, practical concerns.

m

[shilshoolon]

Thanks for you help:-) I guess it's the sound of a cheep mic and pre from the camera.it's mono only 16bit without any comb filtering as far as i can see and hear.

[georgia]

I can't imagine why running it thru a compressor would make it "better or cleaner" it would just do what a compressor does. If you are going to use a comporessor to do cleanup, i'd use a multi-band comporessor plug-in and automate it to compress specific frequencies and not use it for "compresson" across the board. But I would certainly clean it up with noise reduction, then EQ, then volume automate, then fill and balance the background with room tone..... then,peak limit lightly to keep everything in the pocket. When you're all done with that, you can walk over to the production mixer and bitchslap 'em....


cheer
geo

[shilshoolon]

haha! great answer georgia. i guess what I'm asking is whether coloring the sound of a cheep sounding dialogue recording thru a warm analogue compressor would give it a better color or is it just pointless. p.s. please ignore the fact that i mentioned that it's noisy.

[jahtao]

Who listens to dialog colour?

[minister]

Originally Posted by georgia

When you're all done with that, you can walk over to the production mixer and bitchslap 'em....

geo, please! there are boys present!

dopeslap?

geo is right. i suspect that this person who suggested it is a "music" mixer and read on the internets that toob gear gives you colour!

fact is, a well implemented tube path is actually quite transparent. (Manley is quite nice gear.)

you know what shil? this is the perfect thing for you to develop your plastic surgery skills. it will never be perfect, but, you will learn a lot about what you can do to improve the dialogue by using the tools you already have.

[Brent Hahn]

Could you post a short clip of (or a link to) your audiio? You've gotten the attention of some very experienced and knowledgable folks here. They can give you far more specific and concrete advice than they already have if they can hear what you're dealing with.

[dr.sound]

Benjamin Kositzky
The Post Group/Novastar Digital Sound Services said:

Originally Posted by bkositzky

Before doing anything run it through noise reduction (Cedar, Waves, Izotope, etc). Then EQ towards the picture and really clean up the sound before you throw a compressor on it. Compression is rarely used, especially on dialogue. Try to stay away from using a limiter as much as possible.

Benjamin,
Your experince is showing. You said compression is rarely used. You are wrong. It's the combination of EQ, Compression, and possibly noise reduction is the way dialog is made to sound good. The next time Larry Benjamin (The Re-Recording Mixer who works at a Novastar ) is in ask him if he uses any compression.After that tell him I said "Hi".

[philper]

I wouldn't compress anything until I'd done what I could with simple editing and MAYBE some NR and EQ: why drive all the lower level crud up into the dialog? When you do do the NR and comp etc, keep comparing what you are doing with the original. A little goes a long way, and a lot often sounds worse that what you started with, or attracts more attention to itself. It's a bitter pill but sometimes even the fanciest tools can't do anything substantive to bad sound....

Philip Perkins

[Geert van den Berg]

+1 to most things said above. Especially on being carefull not to bring up more noise with a compressor.

The most important thing is, if you'd run it thru the Manley, does it sound better? You'd have to try this to find out. Nobody can really tell in advance...

But I think that EQ'ing and carving out any noise, will have more effect on the dialogue sound than the Manley...

[shilshoolon]

Thanks everyone for the help :-) my teacher is not a post guy but he does teach me a lot of great stuff about music tech. I'll follow your advice and finish the work on the dialogue in the DAW. When i'll get the chance i'll put the manley on the mono track just to experiment and see if it makes any difference for good or for worse.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by shilshoolon

run everything into a manley compressor to give it color but not compression

if you wanted to gain some coloration from a compressor, you would have to compress. gear coloration happens when things are driven near their limits / thresholds so they exhibit their nice distortion. otherwise, all you get is more noise.
not saying a little noise wouldn't do good