Mixing with the Dolby LM100

[shilshoolon]

Which plug-in comes closest to the LM100? I guess nothing substitutes it. I guess I'd like to know what can the poor man use as the best dialogue metering(which is me)?

[adogg4629]

Originally Posted by shilshoolon

Which plug-in comes closest to the LM100? I guess nothing substitutes it. I guess I'd like to know what can the poor man use as the best dialogue metering(which is me)?

Correct Answer: Your ear.

Also Digidesign Phase Scope has an LEQ meter...though it is anywhere from 2-6 db off from the LM100

[adogg4629]

Originally Posted by Tapwatr

What's up Slutz, this is my first post.

I am looking for some advice. The studio I work at recently acquired an LM100 for a new show we're doing. I've just started my first mix with it and it's not fun. I am wondering if anybody who has experience with this box has any tips on let's say "streamlining" the process of mixing with it.

I have to keep the dialogue between -26 and -28 and it just seems like it's taking a long time.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you are mixing a show for Discovery. They are the only company I know about that has delivery specs requiring the mixer to mix to a meter rather then the other way around. I know, it's the wrong way to do it, but Discovery QC Dep. has a bug up their corporate behind and no amount of calling them on it will dissuade them from their insitance on using the LM100 backwards.

My advice...put a C4 (factoru setting preset) on every dialogue channel (trust me it works), and I usually carve out some frequency at 2K from the dlg and misic busses. Depending on the state of the source audio (I've had some rough stuff for a number of Discovery shows myself) you may just have to automate the heck out of it. but as long as you play the music low, and get a good mix for the VO and dlg, discovery QC will give you rave reviews.

I know it sounds dumb, but that is Discovery...it doesn't matter if it sounds good...as long as the LM100 doesn't peak past -25

Good luck

[danijel]

Originally Posted by shilshoolon

Which plug-in comes closest to the LM100? I guess nothing substitutes it. I guess I'd like to know what can the poor man use as the best dialogue metering(which is me)?

you don't really need it, unless it's a requirement for a specific show you're doing. if you try to follow any meter, it will get in conflict with what you hear. i'm actually considering turning off even the waveform display when mixing. when i'm tired, and i lose my focus, they (the waveforms) start playing games with me.

[Boussani]

I do realize that this post is old, but I just got to that...

I had the same question as Shilshoolon-
"Which plug-in comes closest to the LM100?... I guess I'd like to know what can the poor man use as the best dialogue metering(which is me)?"

First, Dolby makes a plugin version, they call it "Dolby Media Meter"... Correct?
Does anyone use it??

Second,

Originally Posted by danijel

you don't really need it, unless it's a requirement for a specific show you're doing. if you try to follow any meter, it will get in conflict with what you hear.

Danijel, What about when you mix movies? Aren't there any standard requirements when submitting a movie mix?
Please refer to both independent and large-budget movies.

Thank you very much..!

[jimlongo]

Originally Posted by Boussani

I do realize that this post is old, but I just got to that...

I had the same question as Shilshoolon-
"Which plug-in comes closest to the LM100?... I guess I'd like to know what can the poor man use as the best dialogue metering(which is me)?"

First, Dolby makes a plugin version, they call it "Dolby Media Meter"... Correct?
Does anyone use it??

I've been using it for a current series. They want an overall dialnorm of -27 with "DI on" across all 5.1 channels. It works perfectly.

I am allowed to mix it however i want. I post measure the file. Then gain process the mix (they range from 25 to 26 after mix) down 1 or 2 db to get the desired result.

Much better than watching the meter whilst I mix the show imo.

Of course this wouldn't work so well for some stricter requirement.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by Boussani

Danijel, What about when you mix movies? Aren't there any standard requirements when submitting a movie mix?
Please refer to both independent and large-budget movies.

Thank you very much..!

Hey, sorry, I was hoping someone else with more experience in Dolby printmastering will respond, and then I forgot about this thread....

There is no standard or requirement by Dolby or anyone else concerning the loudness of dialogue. If your artistic intent is to make the dialogue quiet and unintelligible, or to blow everyone out of their seats, so be it. Dolby doesn't make problems in that respect, as long as you printmaster in a calibrated room, so you KNOW what you are doing.
Besides that, they may have technical requirements like maximum saturation of the optical print and stuff like that, but I wouldn't know, maybe a dub stage (or THE dub stage) person could say more on what is the actual job of a Dolby guy in printmastering.

[minister]

Danijel summed it up well.

No rules, just that pesky 0 dBFS ceiling. And, as he points out, the "clash" that happens when down-mixing 5.1-->LtRt when things are too loud.

In my experience, the Dolby Engineer shows up with whatever gear is not permanently part of a dub stage (or THE Dub Stage) -- Meter bridge, DMU, etc. They hook it all up, check the Cal of the room with an SPL meter. After filling out forms for the MO disk with things like FFOA & LFOA and ROTHFLMAO, they will mostly be in the background. They will assist in running the DMU to listen back to the mix on the Disk. They might also make a suggestion if there is a steering problem with the fold-down.

While they will watch for overages with the fold-down, they will not comment if YOUR gear is clipping, unless it might be contributing to the fold-down clip. They will not say if the dialogue is too loud or too soft. They are not there to comment on the quality of the mix.

And when I am there, answer a lot of my pesky questions about how it all works.

Every Dolby engineer I have met has been profesional, cool, very well informed and very smart.

[audiobob10]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes we are in a tough situation as you stated. Our clients demand perceived loudness of their product. I don't have an answer to what to do about this mainly for the reason of money (both mine and the stations). What really needs to happen is to have the nab have some power again and organize and standardize this whole 5.1 hi def situation from the picture and audio to the end product thru the broadcast chain. Kind of like they did when we had color and stereo for tv. (ntsc)!!!

But on another issue..


Commercial levels are a big issue in my book..
I haven't mixed a spot in many years, but I have some good friends who mix many hi-end spots every day.. these guys/girls do superbowl spots every year.

These commercial mixers are stuck in an odd situation They truly want to follow the LM100, and they do so when required, BUT then their clients will freak out at them: "Why was our spot so much lower in level compared to all the others!?!".. and as we ALL know, advertisers are a different animal, they only care about getting that spot stuck in your head. unfortunately their levels literally do it.

I know of some mixers in a few different studios who have resorted in playing some interesting (and impressive) 'tricks' to fool the LM100 into thinking the dialog level is lower than it sounds when the clients ask them to.. and they do!

Unfortunately this really sucks in my book.
I 100% respect the reasoning behind the creating of the LM100, and this is one of the reasons it was created.. because we all hate loud commercials that blow our heads off.

My point is,
In a perfect world I wish there was a way to get the broadcasters to crack down on these spots being delivered to them so loud and make it a more strict and realistic spec. (pipe dream I know.. they're getting so much $$ from them.. oh well..)

Okay, I'm done ranting now.. [/QUOTE]

[pablovius]

Originally Posted by georgia

yup.. when I mix in stereo the LM100 is across the full mix, because thats' how it's going to get QC and approved or rejected by the network. If I mix in 5.1 I put it on the downmix LoRo channels.

Perhaps a "duh" question, but can the LM-100 read an encoded LtRt? My spec requires that my 5.1, stereo program, and Dolby E tracks must all meet the -27 spec. My worry is that to strap it across a LoRo (as Georgia recommends) is not sufficient--considering the fold-downs might react differently.

[philper]

Originally Posted by pablovius

Perhaps a "duh" question, but can the LM-100 read an encoded LtRt? My spec requires that my 5.1, stereo program, and Dolby E tracks must all meet the -27 spec. My worry is that to strap it across a LoRo (as Georgia recommends) is not sufficient--considering the fold-downs might react differently.

Yes--I check my LtRts on the LM100 as a stereo input and it works fine.

Philip Perkins