Thinking about "Editing School" Los Angeles, FCP/AVID

[composer]

I know Avid is the norm and industry standard but am looking for a school in Burbank, Pasadena, Hollywood that focuses on FCP and or Avid that has school loans (how to get a grant being un-employed) that also has a high percentage of job placement.

Any ideas? I have also composed for feature film/television, as well as produced sound design CD's for a major company, so am hopeful that this would, in time, after working my way up from asst. editor, that I could utilize these skills.

Any help/direction (schools) are appreciated.

Thanks

[meathman]

Video Symphony , Burbank, CA

[BVoss]

Originally Posted by meathman

Video Symphony , Burbank, CA

+1

Sounds like a great curriculum.

[philper]

Originally Posted by composer

I know Avid is the norm and industry standard but am looking for a school in Burbank, Pasadena, Hollywood that focuses on FCP and or Avid that has school loans (how to get a grant being un-employed) that also has a high percentage of job placement.

Any ideas? I have also composed for feature film/television, as well as produced sound design CD's for a major company, so am hopeful that this would, in time, after working my way up from asst. editor, that I could utilize these skills.

Any help/direction (schools) are appreciated.

Thanks

I'd take the promise of "job placement" with a grain of salt.

Philip Perkins

[OJCamero]

Originally Posted by meathman

Video Symphony , Burbank, CA

I agree, check out Video Symphony.

[composer]

Originally Posted by philper

I'd take the promise of "job placement" with a grain of salt.

Philip Perkins

Well I got the brochure the other day from Avid Symphony, it seems cool. It seems a bit pricey, but only if you had no work, which right this second is the case for me. Score one trailer and all is well, but its been a while.

Anyway, I spoke to them and I do have a few questions, while I believe him that learning FCP won't get you a job at WB, isn't Avid losing money? I also looked at the schedule and I don't see any FCP added to the Avid training, which I was lead to believe you got both. It seems that FCP is part of the MEDIA/GRAPHICS package and one friend of mine said, "if you know AE...you can get work..."

Of course, they have a PT course too. They claim 80% placement, this year 90%. Grain of salt taken.

Now, that being said, what does one really have to do? I mean, I have scored trailers, produced CD's, music supervised, strong business background as well. So, really just need to try and sort through all of this. For example, wasn't "No Country For Old Men" done on FCP? Is there a cheaper alternative? I mean, sure, you could get the LYNDA.COM training files for a year for $300 bucks, and then maybe join the Los Angeles Final Cut Group, but am wondering if there is a cheaper alternative, just to get some money in the door, nor wasting it away on what to a very small percent, could be a dying market (Avid) as computers get stronger, portable.

Is there a GOOD FCP training program with some placement? Or helps you build a reel with editing, motion, AE, and perhaps some educational/pbs/corporate films first?

I'm also hopeful that having some composing skills and a strong PC/MAC background (EE Major), certified in Computer Science as well, and music training, that perhaps as an editor, I could work well and see more work as I could jell with Music Sup/Producer/Composer, or wear two of those hats while editing?

I guess I'm looking into a FCP school now and to see if I could obtain a project from that (I see listings for FCP editors all the time at a few sites - feel free to add some here), and once some more $$$$ started to come in, then it wouldn't feel as though I was spending everything just on Avid as I do have some skepticism on it. Editors, please feel free to chime in if I am wrong. Not trying to start a flame war, but it seems knowing both is good - and I have been in Avid bays on quite a few projects, as well as at TODD/AO, just looking for the best skills and sometimes I think AE, MOTION,FC, would be helpful.

Thanks

[OJCamero]

After completeing a one year program at a Film School here in the Los Angeles area I can honestly say that you can learn most of what you get from a film school about editing from books. Now I may be speaking incorrectly about other schools but I'm going from the experience at mine. My younger brother is moving to Los Angeles in 4 months in order to break into the industry. I gave him a copy of Avid, the book Avid Editing: A Guide for Beginning and Intermediate Users by Sam Kauffmann, and a few DVDs with source materials from some of the directors I am currently working with. This would be enough to start learning how to cut. After you have done enough cutting and are familiar with the program to navigate without thinking you will be in a position to work on getting an assistant editor position. (Craig's list is loaded with people looking for editors) This is where you can learn the asthetics of cuttting. Granted I would highly suggest reading everything you can on the side about picture editing to better familiarize yourself. Everything can be learned on the job, it just takes longer. Remember this industry is based off the idea of mentoring and teaching people the trade. Film schools where not popular untill the 60', 70's. And the number one most important thing in Hollywood "NETWORK, NETWORK NETWORK" and did I also mention network? I can't stress how much work in Hollywood is based off who you know. Attend as many events as you can. Anyway I guess I got a little side tracked. Sorry. Hope something in this thread answers a question out there.

[Spookym15]

I use to work for a school in which we did job placement. Any job (remotely related to your field) or even a one time job qualifies as job placement. This could be guitar sales man at GC could count as a job in the recording industry. I hope that most schools do not do it, because it is a bull way of running things. But keep that in mind and ask them lots of questions about the job placement.

[Jay-]

+1 for self taught. Then supplement that with freelance and then get an intern job.

Try the avid liquid or the free DV, then work your way up to Avid Xpress DV, MC, symphony, Nitrous..
Also pick up FCP skills and have the best both worlds and maximise compatibility for new jobs.

[composer]

Originally Posted by Jay-

+1 for self taught. Then supplement that with freelance and then get an intern job.

Try the avid liquid or the free DV, then work your way up to Avid Xpress DV, MC, symphony, Nitrous..
Also pick up FCP skills and have the best both worlds and maximise compatibility for new jobs.

So you guys think 30K for Avid, 20K for Media Effects (photoshop/flash thru motion, after effects) is to much? LOL.

And probably not worth it? (smile). I guess I could get a decent DC and start cutting, already have FCP, and Avid X on PC.

But here is where I am coming from and a post I just posted on Avid forum: Also, I noted that some are complaining that FCP is really taking the indie by storm and they want Avid to take part - but how can they when you look at there PT LE business model right?

Anyway, enjoy the read, if you want that is....

(cut)

Did some research, not that many hits on training or vs. FCP that are recent.

Anyway, some background,
• Proficient with PC/MAC
• Can build PC's, heck even a hack n tosh
• EE Background
• Familiar with Pro Tools, Avid, Giga, Nuendo, Cubase
• Music Supervisor
• Business Affairs
• Music Licensing for FF/TV
• Numerous years at major label in both Director A&R and Music Sound Tracks
• Have worked with editors
• FCP experience (motion, et-cetera)
• Photoshop, and Adobe / Macro media suites.
• Beta tester for Giga Studio, Sony
• Content creator for Sony Acid (Loop Libraries)
• Worked in Avid edit bay

So, looked into Avid training, spoke with Avid Symphony in Burbank, he's schpeal was that you won't get a job at WB learning FCP, which is probably true. However, I do see a lot of "editors needed FCP" from a lot of media boards, problem is, I bet many of these are deffered payment, or no budget at all.

My main questions are:
• Has anyone attended Avid Symphony in Burbank?
• How true do you think the job placement is? Was told its about 80% with this year being 90%, was also told (w/ grain of salt), if you pass Avid test, they get you an agent, true or not?
• Do you see the market increasing for editors these days? My predictions are, like the music business, the tv business will take a hit once everyone has piped in fiber and indie's start producing TV shows. Of course, at first, many will stink, but those that have had releases, or some formal training will see this as an opportunity and will release great productions as we, the consumer, have thousands of channels to search from (on-line), where does this leave us? On paper, wouldn't most be using FCP?
• Really trying to get a handle on how important a degree from Avid Symphony would be before spending 30K. I ask as if you look at PT LE, its still limited in working for picture and surround and now some FOLEY people who still use it, yet talk about Nuendo, yet, the point is, yes, they still use LE at home, whether frustrated or not.

I really want to get some training, and apparently, this school is supposed to offer FCP in their program but in looking at their course, I don't see it listed anywhere in AVID program but only in the media and effects training which is another 20K. Which I also believe to be growing market (media effects = Avid, FCP, Motion, Photoshop and more importantly, AE), just wish I could get AVID and FCP training in one program and want to go with the best as well as hear from students that actually got work/placement after going there. (or any school).

Thanks
(end rant)

[Jay-]

They been saying Avid was dead even back as far as 1994 and its not dead.
They also said apple mackintosh was on its way out.

More competition = better avid.
Lower prices = cheaper avid.

[OJCamero]

I did a search on mandy.com last week and found 8 postings for assistant editors in a 3-4 day time span. I don't think it would be too difficult finding a job. I wish it was as easy for sound editors.

[dr.sound]

Composer,
The schools are in the business of getting people through their doors. They make money by telling you what you want to hear. First off the job market now is terrible. We just got over the writers strike and now SAG is coming. Take your 30 - 60K and go to a Post Facility and tell them you will work for FREE. You will show them your work ethic and you will hang out with Pro's doing what you want to do and will learn from them. Play with their equipment in the off hours and show them what you learned. You will be much further ahead.

[jahtao]

I have a biology degree. Got that, then started making tea at studios / post houses. Often I was serving tea to people the same age as me who hadn't gone to uni and thus had a three year head start on me. Those that had done film degrees or whatever were in exactly the same boat, and many of them are no longer in the industry. Constantly working on my computer at home, my commitment and work ethic, and my love for film and music pulled me thru.

That said, uni offers all sorts of things a post house doesn't... and is fun. If you go, make sure you give it 150%

[Henchman]

I had Zero training in post, and kinda rolled into.
Started as an ADR assistant 15 years ago.There are enough books to buy and study, thaw ill teach you what you need to know.
But you'll learn the most by working with experienced pro's on a daily basis.
Going to an expensive school is in no way a shortcut to getting into this industry, regardless of what the recruiters tell you.

You'll get out of school, and start at the bottom, along with the guys who din't spend a gazillion dollars on a useless piece of paper.

[Maber]

I can recomend Final Cut Express as an intry point to learning FCP, they are similar from what i can remember (it's been a few years since i worked with FCP)

even if you decide to take an (expensive) course it is better to learn the tools BEFORE you go there, then you know what you need to learn and what questions to ask, and can concentrate on being creative instead of struggling with the tools.

so try to read lots of books on the subject and get AVID free DV and Final Cut express and learn as much as you can on your own,

just my two...

[stuartprovine]

Dr. Sound and Henchman have given you the best advice so far. No question.

The media school thing only goes so far. For many, it's a complete waste of time, energy, and money. Some, however, really benefit from it.

IMO, the main obstacle to getting started is taming your pride and getting out there and "in the mix". Even if you're just keeping the cream cheese jar full and taking out the garbage.

[gallerytungsten]

Originally Posted by stuartprovine

Dr. Sound and Henchman have given you the best advice so far. No question.

+1 on what Dr. Sound and Henchman said.

Also, just like lots of people have their own "bedroom studio," think about putting together your own "bedroom editing suite." It keeps getting cheaper and cheaper. Get a cheap cameral and start shooting, then cut your film.

A good way to get started is to start cutting some music videos. Short form, try lots of different ideas. Another idea is to try cutting movie previews; use the entire movie as the source material and see how dynamic you can make it. Lots of short cuts! Watch some pro music videos, and count to yourself, "one, two, three." You'll find lots of shots last for one second or less.

[composer]

Originally Posted by gallerytungsten

+1 on what Dr. Sound and Henchman said.

Also, just like lots of people have their own "bedroom studio," think about putting together your own "bedroom editing suite." It keeps getting cheaper and cheaper. Get a cheap cameral and start shooting, then cut your film.

A good way to get started is to start cutting some music videos. Short form, try lots of different ideas. Another idea is to try cutting movie previews; use the entire movie as the source material and see how dynamic you can make it. Lots of short cuts! Watch some pro music videos, and count to yourself, "one, two, three." You'll find lots of shots last for one second or less.

Thanks, well I did speak with them again (school) and am a bit leery...
and they made mention of starting at $7000 per month (low end), errr, hello?
That's toward the upper end IMHO. $7000 per month is not low end for ASST EDIT/Digitizer - as even on their website they use that mark as an editor and around $20-$30 for asst.

As a pro, my background (with some editing) has been Music Supervision, A&R, as well as post and composing for Feature Film trailers - so I am a bit skewed with the numbers both $$$ and placement wise (90%+).

While I have made great salary both in business end of ent. business and more so in composing, as well as content developer for Giga Studio (also beta tester for MAC version coming soon) and Sony's Acid, I can't help but notice that post (editors) far out weigh post for audio work.

I am looking for both gigs and experience in editing - I will be living in Burbank soon and know that's where all the gigs are and for me, I would take a paycut to earn my way up, be it digitizing, or logging, (which admissions said could be $35 an hour), another skeptical comment (as surely this is not true).

For now I am talking with some friends who are full time Music Supervisors (2004-present), Foley (Universal) as well as a producer friend (Reality Television) and the goal is to gain some editing skills, get more pro-active in the business while increasing my composing skills/rig with better samples, updated reel. I suppose the ideal situation would be with a production company that could use both my Music Supervision Soundtrack Experience (10+ year), Music Licensing, some editing (increased with school), Composing for Feature Film and DVD (quite a few credits), then get an agent.

Also, FWIW, I have the word out that I would take a free gig (part time) in the Burbank area in order to gain more experience - will see if I can get a gig, then if things worked out, I could use some of my talents, hopefully gaining FULL TIME/PAID, then when needed, school at night.

I am also getting married soon so would appreciate any help that anyone could give me and would send a resume to anyone who ask's.

Will update when I find out more - e.g. spoke with Music Sup friend today - who may be looking for more employee's- its just that in the music business, composing/editing in my opinion, are the future, especially when we get the fiber pipe into all the homes - I think a Final Cut program would be very helpful - I also have a goal that after we get married and move to our new place in Burbank, I will commit to reading the FINAL CUT books from START to FINISH as well as some LYNDA.com training, then, if I can't get work (with a composer/editor reel), I also plan on making a documentary (composer/editor/producer), try again, then purhaps school if none of the above works. Of course, should I get hired and they wanted to send me to school, then so be it.

Lastly, (for now anyway), my work ethic has always been first to arrive (7:30AM), last to leave (sometimes at 10:00-11:00PM) when I worked in a Music Supervisor capacity and at a full HD Pro Tools rig (x 3 studios) and I would glady do a night shift (LOG/DIGITIZE) or whatever it takes to get in the door.

Thanks guys.

The reason I have some questions is due to the fact that some speak highly of the school, yet the numbers (pay rate entry) don't add up. Perhaps you could post some numbers?

Asst. Editor Reality?
Asst. Editor Digitize/Logger
Asst Editor FF (MAJOR DISTRIBUTOR)
Editor - all the above

My angle is that I can also "compose", "Sound Design" and "Music Supervise" so adding some editing should increase my worth a little, if not a bit more.

I do, DO thank you and all for anyone that gives me a chance/or feedback.

Thank you again.

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by composer

Thanks, well I did speak with them again (school) and am a bit leery...
and they made mention of starting at $7000 per month (low end), errr, hello?
That's toward the upper end IMHO. $7000 per month is not low end for ASST EDIT/Digitizer - as even on their website they use that mark as an editor and around $20-$30 for asst.

As a pro, my background (with some editing) has been Music Supervision, A&R, as well as post and composing for Feature Film trailers - so I am a bit skewed with the numbers both $$$ and placement wise (90%+).

While I have made great salary both in business end of ent. business and more so in composing, as well as content developer for Giga Studio (also beta tester for MAC version coming soon) and Sony's Acid, I can't help but notice that post (editors) far out weigh post for audio work.

I am looking for both gigs and experience in editing - I will be living in Burbank soon and know that's where all the gigs are and for me, I would take a paycut to earn my way up, be it digitizing, or logging, (which admissions said could be $35 an hour), another skeptical comment (as surely this is not true).

For now I am talking with some friends who are full time Music Supervisors (2004-present), Foley (Universal) as well as a producer friend (Reality Television) and the goal is to gain some editing skills, get more pro-active in the business while increasing my composing skills/rig with better samples, updated reel. I suppose the ideal situation would be with a production company that could use both my Music Supervision Soundtrack Experience (10+ year), Music Licensing, some editing (increased with school), Composing for Feature Film and DVD (quite a few credits), then get an agent.

Also, FWIW, I have the word out that I would take a free gig (part time) in the Burbank area in order to gain more experience - will see if I can get a gig, then if things worked out, I could use some of my talents, hopefully gaining FULL TIME/PAID, then when needed, school at night.

I am also getting married soon so would appreciate any help that anyone could give me and would send a resume to anyone who ask's.

Will update when I find out more - e.g. spoke with Music Sup friend today - who may be looking for more employee's- its just that in the music business, composing/editing in my opinion, are the future, especially when we get the fiber pipe into all the homes - I think a Final Cut program would be very helpful - I also have a goal that after we get married and move to our new place in Burbank, I will commit to reading the FINAL CUT books from START to FINISH as well as some LYNDA.com training, then, if I can't get work (with a composer/editor reel), I also plan on making a documentary (composer/editor/producer), try again, then purhaps school if none of the above works. Of course, should I get hired and they wanted to send me to school, then so be it.

Lastly, (for now anyway), my work ethic has always been first to arrive (7:30AM), last to leave (sometimes at 10:00-11:00PM) when I worked in a Music Supervisor capacity and at a full HD Pro Tools rig (x 3 studios) and I would glady do a night shift (LOG/DIGITIZE) or whatever it takes to get in the door.

Thanks guys.

The reason I have some questions is due to the fact that some speak highly of the school, yet the numbers (pay rate entry) don't add up. Perhaps you could post some numbers?

Asst. Editor Reality?
Asst. Editor Digitize/Logger
Asst Editor FF (MAJOR DISTRIBUTOR)
Editor - all the above

My angle is that I can also "compose", "Sound Design" and "Music Supervise" so adding some editing should increase my worth a little, if not a bit more.

I do, DO thank you and all for anyone that gives me a chance/or feedback.

Thank you again.

Here is a link to Local 700 "The Editors Guild".
Click on this link:
Motion Picture Editors Guild - Wages

Go to "The Majors Post Agreement".
It is VERY Tough finding a Union Job!
The school's #'s are WAY OFF!!

[composer]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

Here is a link to Local 700 "The Editors Guild".
Click on this link:
Motion Picture Editors Guild - Wages

Go to "The Majors Post Agreement".
It is VERY Tough finding a Union Job!
The school's #'s are WAY OFF!!

Geesh, maybe I'll stick to composing (FEATURE FILMS), I get about $200 an hour or $10,000 for about 1.5 weeks work.

Getting together next few weeks with Alan ETT music and a few music supervisor friends (who have full time gigs) and are looking into commercial work, publishing.



I guess having composing skills pays off big time - another friends gets about $5000 per week for 1/2 (22 minute) network comedy - - I know I was going to use this to sharpen my skills, but now, I might just stay focused on music and perhaps get an agent down that road - maybe after my next sample CD release (either SONY or Tascam Giga Studio (Mac version)....

Not sure now.....numbers are okay (editing) I mean, $1500 a weeks not bad money, about 70K per year, and if your on a staff, and get benefits, 3 week vacation, 401, insurance, then yeah, maybe its worth it - - focusing on After Effects, FCP for the next 6 months anyway, put a reel together and see what happens.....

I truly believe now having scored what I have scored that this indeed has helped me get a head a bit - I also have some ins to the already insiders (producers) so I suppose saying, "hey, I cut, but can also sound design, score, create lead sheets, and after effects, I could increase my worth quite a bit.

Thanks for the link and HAPPY EASTER to those who celebrate!

He is risen!!!!!!!