Analog Tape NEED HELP!

[Aaron Rash]

I bought an Otari MX-5050 off of ebay hoping to warm up my squeaky clean digital recordings. Surprisingly it does not seam to warm up the recordings very well or even at all... It still sounds digital. Im trying to get modulation noise and sidebands and that nice saturation. Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe? Im recording on Quantegy 456.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

I bought an Otari MX-5050 off of ebay hoping to warm up my squeaky clean digital recordings. Surprisingly it does not seam to warm up the recordings very well or even at all... It still sounds digital. Im trying to get modulation noise and sidebands and that nice saturation. Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe? Im recording on Quantegy 456.

One hardly knows where to start in answering this question, except to say, perhaps you'd do well to study the concept behind the generic analog tape recorder.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe?

No. There were no digital mods made for Otari analog decks that I've ever heard of. I've never felt that rolling digital out to analog yielded any worthwhile results, but you might try really pinning the meters if you want real saturation. The 5050 is a hearty machine with loads of headroom. You might also want to try a higher octane tape like 499 or GP9, aligning the deck for +9 and slamming it. Recording at slow speed will also give you more grit, but will of course reduce your signal to noise ratio.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

No. There were no digital mods made for Otari analog decks that I've ever heard of. I've never felt that rolling digital out to analog yielded any worthwhile results, but you might try really pinning the meters if you want real saturation. The 5050 is a hearty machine with loads of headroom. You might also want to try a higher octane tape like 499 or GP9, aligning the deck for +9 and slamming it. Recording at slow speed will also give you more grit, but will of course reduce your signal to noise ratio.

Which is a bit like saying "there were no flat-screen mods for Sony CRTs".

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Which is a bit like saying "there were no flat-screen mods for Sony CRTs".

It can be done. If you have a large enough trash compactor.

[georgia]

dont' forget you must align the deck with an MRL tape and you need to bias the heads appropriatly for the tape and levels you want to track at. Also, if you are using not so great converters your in trouble from the start, and no amount of tape saturation is going to fit it.

cheers
geo

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

I bought an Otari MX-5050 off of ebay hoping to warm up my squeaky clean digital recordings. Surprisingly it does not seam to warm up the recordings very well or even at all... It still sounds digital. Im trying to get modulation noise and sidebands and that nice saturation. Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe? Im recording on Quantegy 456.

Holy Lazlo Toth!

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Holy Lazlo Toth!

I was wondering if the question was a joke also, but if it was...I nibbled at the bait.

[dannygold]

It doesn't really matter if it's analog or digital... the fact that it's TAPE should be enough to warm it up. I find audio recorded to moving linear media like tape FAR superior to that recorded to a typical winchester drive. But at least winchester drives have SOME moving parts... probably the most cold and sterile sound EVER is fixed media like my iPod shuffle which has no moving parts... half the reason people hate the MP3's sound so much is because they're playing it off fixed media. I'm sure you've all noticed that MP3s sound better off HDs than shuffles? Null tests can't prove this because they don't take into account the moving part factor. I'm hoping someone will come up with rotating ram chips to warm up the sound of audio. Surely dig audio passes thru the RAM while being recorded and shaking it up a little (literally) would help make the 1s and 0s stick together better?

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by dannygold

I'm sure you've all noticed that MP3s sound better off HDs than shuffles?

This thread is an instant classic.

[jacobfarron]

I'm sure you've all noticed that MP3s sound better off HDs than shuffles?

This must be a joke.

[undergroundtoon]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

I bought an Otari MX-5050 off of ebay hoping to warm up my squeaky clean digital recordings. Surprisingly it does not seam to warm up the recordings very well or even at all... It still sounds digital. Im trying to get modulation noise and sidebands and that nice saturation. Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe? Im recording on Quantegy 456.

I had the same problem with mine......Turns out the power coming into the studio was 110v digital. Once I got the 110v digital to 110v analog converter I had all the warmth I needed.

Disclaimer: Make sure you get a good one. The build quality will determin the amout of warmth you get. I went thru 3 different units before I found one up to my standards.

Good luck

[undergroundtoon]

I hope your is 110v
Because the 220 units are over 3 times as much
Gotta love the "Playin with the Big Boys" mark up fee


I do have an extra 110v digital to 110v analog converter laying around that I would let go for $1,500.

[jacobfarron]

undergroundtoon - that's the best thing I've read in a while!

[georgia]

I have no idea why all you guys think you need tape to warm up the digital sound. I just turn off the Air Conditioning in my machine room whenever I master any final tracks. the heads and drive discs both expand another 2 microns bringing the heads closer. it makes the bits jump a bit quicker to the heads and rounds off the edges of each bit as the heat expands the data bits....Warms the final mixes up nicely!



cheers
geo

[Aaron Rash]

Yea I understand that alot of people hate the hassle of analog recording, and sure there are alot of emulators out there and what not. But nothing sounds better then a mix full of analog harmonics and sidebands. Sad fully digital can never reproduce this the same way. Don't get me wrong, digital sounds great with a good pilot behind the board. I never thought about the power being ''analog or digital'' but it does run at 110v so I cant wait to try this.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

Yea I understand that alot of people hate the hassle of analog recording, and sure there are alot of emulators out there and what not. But nothing sounds better then a mix full of analog harmonics and sidebands. Sad fully digital can never reproduce this the same way. Don't get me wrong, digital sounds great with a good pilot behind the board. I never thought about the power being ''analog or digital'' but it does run at 110v so I cant wait to try this.

sorry, it's one of those days when nothing really happens on the forum, so everybody's trying to have some fun, but this has probably gone too far.
this is a film post-production forum where people don't really care about 'warmth' and that kind of issues. you should try to post your question again in so much gear, so little time or the mastering forum.

[Aaron Rash]

Oh... Im new to here i thought i was in an audio forum... Same thing goes for video as well though... thats why they still shoot major movies on film.

[philper]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

Oh... Im new to here i thought i was in an audio forum... Same thing goes for video as well though... thats why they still shoot major movies on film.

Except that, increasingly, they don't. For real warm video, try the "RED"camera--so warm that its cooling fans have to run (noisily) even in cold rooms!

For audio warmth, I take my hard-drives out of the computer and bake them just like we do with old analog tapes w/ sticky-shed syndrome. 30 min in the convection oven, and my recordings go from cel-phone to Neve-Studer! I'll be publishing a book about how I do this very soon--it will come in a box that looks like a giant vacuum tube, be profusely illustrated and replete w/ mind-numbingly irrelevant detail and sell for $10,000.00 per copy. You can preorder on my website--sorry, no refunds.

Philip Perkins

[Dunebuggy]

Originally Posted by mraaronrash

I bought an Otari MX-5050 off of ebay hoping to warm up my squeaky clean digital recordings. Surprisingly it does not seam to warm up the recordings very well or even at all... It still sounds digital. Im trying to get modulation noise and sidebands and that nice saturation. Im wondering if the heads were replaced with digital ones maybe? Im recording on Quantegy 456.

If you have access to a food dehydrator you can put your hard drive in it for a few hours (depending the duration of the project) , it will warm the data , it s call baking.

[adamcal]

I agree with the moving parts idea, in fact, I installed my entire studio on a old revolving stage I scored from a theater, nothing ever sounds good unless it is set to "spin"

I have it set to 1 IP, as 15 and 30 IPS really did my head in.


the other up side is that my view constantly changes, plus standing waves never have a chance to form, as the wall where they originaly bounced off has moved

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by adamcal

... nothing ever sounds good unless it is set to "spin"

But stay away from "rinse."

[dannygold]

What brands of RAM do you guys think sound best?

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by dannygold

What brands of RAM do you guys think sound best?

Why, analog RAM, of course. I wonder if Funk Logic is still stocking that?

[dannygold]

How does that Funk Logic gear sound? I heard it sounds awesome, but I've only seen it. I didn't hear anything thru it. In fact, I think the guy said it wasn't hooked up or something? I guess he was gonna hook it up and try it. Have you heard it?

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by dannygold

How does that Funk Logic gear sound? I heard it sounds awesome, but I've only seen it. I didn't hear anything thru it. In fact, I think the guy said it wasn't hooked up or something? I guess he was gonna hook it up and try it. Have you heard it?

It's magically pristine—but only the goldenest of the golden-eared can actually hear it working.

[justpushplay]

...............Oh My God

[dannygold]

To the original poster: If you do determine you have digital heads on your analog tape machine, PM me... I might want to do swap as I have analog heads on my digital machine (sony PCM-3324S). My machine uses 1/4" tape and trying to fit 24 analog channels on 1/4" tape just doesn't sound that good, so I'm regretting getting the analog head stock. I think my machine was supposed to be digital originally because it's a DASH? Your machine is 2" right? Still, I'd think the head stocks would be compatible if we swapped your digital 2 inch heads for my analog 1/4" heads?

[justpushplay]

Originally Posted by dannygold

To the original poster: If you do determine you have digital heads on your analog tape machine, PM me... I might want to do swap as I have analog heads on my digital machine (sony PCM-3324S).

Were these the preview heads that were analog? If so, DO NOT MOD THIS MACHINE!! Your machine was upgraded by George Massenburg and was used to record both the James Taylor Live and Lyle Lovett Large Band records. It is the only 3324 known to exist with this modification, and a listen to either of those records will convince you of it merits. If those are digital heads, (They will look like the head of a Braun electric shaver if they are) well, sorry, what a piece of crap.

Michael

[dannygold]

It sounds like SMPTE? SMPTE sounds good, right?