postpro session guidelines?

[danijel]

i am wondering if there are any guidelines for post production session organizing, like these for music:
http://www.grammy.com/PDFs/Recording...Guidelines.pdf
?
they would be even more beneficial here, due to the sheer number of tracks and types of materials involved....

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OT:
i will also use this opportunity to express my enthusiasm about this forum, as this is my first thread-start!
i have learned a lot during these past two months, and i hope i helped someone on the way. the aspect that i really like about this forum is the diversity: geographical, budget-wise, industry-wise, background-wise, sexual (last, but not the least), etc. it has helped me open my mind to different work flows, points of view, gear (of course), ways of self-promotion....
so, a BIG HELLO! to everyone!
especially the ladies , who are the most patient contributors around!

and, to introduce myself:

Danijel Milosevic
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sound designer (B.A. at the Belgrade Academy of Dramatic Arts)
Belgrade, Serbia (where all the dfegad takes place at the moment)

[danijel]

all right then. are there any unofficial, unwritten standards (however general they may be)?
i ask this because there may be a chance to bring a short movie that i'm doing to a dolby studio for a one-day quick-check. of course, i will be there, so the session layout is not a question of life and death, but with 'proper' layout i may look more professional and we may save some time.
at this stage, i can't ask the studio about this, because i don't know where it will happen. it's a co-production, and the producer is still uncertain if we will have to do it in france or germany.
if there isn't any standard layout at all, how do you, re-recording people, like the project to be delivered?

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by danijel

all right then. are there any unofficial, unwritten standards (however general they may be)?
i ask this because there may be a chance to bring a short movie that i'm doing to a dolby studio for a one-day quick-check. of course, i will be there, so the session layout is not a question of life and death, but with 'proper' layout i may look more professional and we may save some time.
at this stage, i can't ask the studio about this, because i don't know where it will happen. it's a co-production, and the producer is still uncertain if we will have to do it in france or germany.
if there isn't any standard layout at all, how do you, re-recording people, like the project to be delivered?

It really depends on the equipment the studio has. I like to get a DVNTSC version on a Firewire drive with an edit decision list (EDL) that shows which tracks or elements start at a designated TC point. It's helpful to have a white flash at the beginning and end of the movie that correspond to a click at the head and tail of audio tracks. There should at least be a 2-pop at the beginning of the audio tracks corresponding to another flash, then video and audio black for 2 seconds until the first frame of the movie, which should be at 1:00:00:00 or 1:00:00;00.

The clicks and flashes at the head and tail are really optional but can come in handy for checking things like audio drift.

I prefer files all around, but I have the ability to dump various forms of video and audio tape to disc and conform to a rough mix or camera audio. Whatever it takes to get the project done.

If you're shooting HD and the studio has VVTR, the video requirements may be different. We use separate systems for working with HD video, so at the moment, we're just making a DVNTSC movie from whatever source video we may have and using that for our PT Accel system.


Here's the thing, though, in France and Germany, you may be dealing with Nuendo rather than PT, so requirements may be slightly different. Nuendo is a bit more flexible in working with video formats (at least it was a year ago, the last time I used it), so you really should call ahead and find out from the studio (when you have decided on the studio) to find what their capabilities are.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

...............
It's helpful to have a white flash at the beginning and end of the movie that correspond to a click at the head and tail of audio tracks.
...............
I prefer files all around, but I have the ability to dump various forms of video and audio tape to disc and conform to a rough mix or camera audio. Whatever it takes to get the project done.
...............

thanks KK! i wasn't really asking about video (sorry for not being clear), but from your explanation, i see you are talking about separate audio files. that looks like a part of the explanation i was looking for:
i was assuming that i will be taking a PT session to the dub stage, which will contain stems (say, 2 x 5.0 ambiance stems, 5.0 music stem, maybe two 5.0 sfx stems, couple a dialog stems.... all of that dry, and then 5.0 just reverb stem, and another one for music.....), so i was actually wondering how this PT session should be organized.
but maybe i shouldn't make a session at all, just bring plain audio files? is that right?
in that case, should i make 5.1 files, or (properly labeled) mono files? in the latter case, it will take an hour just to route everything

[Lipflap]

Originally Posted by danijel

all right then. are there any unofficial, unwritten standards (however general they may be)?
i ask this because there may be a chance to bring a short movie that i'm doing to a dolby studio for a one-day quick-check. of course, i will be there, so the session layout is not a question of life and death, but with 'proper' layout i may look more professional and we may save some time.
at this stage, i can't ask the studio about this, because i don't know where it will happen. it's a co-production, and the producer is still uncertain if we will have to do it in france or germany.
if there isn't any standard layout at all, how do you, re-recording people, like the project to be delivered?

If you've mixed the tracks to your liking, and you really are just bringing in the stems for the re-recording mixer to "bless" them and to make the print master, the only advice that matters is that of the mixer. Don't think he/she will think you silly or stupid for asking "how do you like your material delivered?" On the contrary, the mixer wants to make the most of your very limited time, and a little bit of communication before you arrive can make all the difference. It's only when you try to impress the mixer that you end up with egg on your face. As soon as you know where you're mastering the film, connect with the mixer or the studio manager. In the meanwhile, lay out the tracks in a logical manner. It can't be too complicated, as you're dealing with stems rather than elements.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by danijel

thanks KK! i wasn't really asking about video (sorry for not being clear), but from your explanation, i see you are talking about separate audio files. that looks like a part of the explanation i was looking for:
i was assuming that i will be taking a PT session to the dub stage, which will contain stems (say, 2 x 5.0 ambiance stems, 5.0 music stem, maybe two 5.0 sfx stems, couple a dialog stems.... all of that dry, and then 5.0 just reverb stem, and another one for music.....), so i was actually wondering how this PT session should be organized.
but maybe i shouldn't make a session at all, just bring plain audio files? is that right?
in that case, should i make 5.1 files, or (properly labeled) mono files? in the latter case, it will take an hour just to route everything

No...I often mix from stems. It's really dependent on what the producer wants. I've done, for instance, remixes where the dialog is being replaced by Spanish and then reseated into various stems. Often, I'll have several stems for music vocal backups (sometimes recut, sometimes not), SFX, music cuts and other stuff that may be on a track or two that needs to be added to the mix.

[danijel]

ok, i see i made a big deal out of it, when it's really pretty situation dependent.
one other thing that puzzles me about the whole stem-system is panning. i expect this to be one of the biggest shortcomings of my mix, due to the small screen i work with. a lot of dialog and sfx in this movie will be off-center and off-screen. it seems pretty difficult to correct placement problems once you render dialog to a stem?

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by danijel

ok, i see i made a big deal out of it, when it's really pretty situation dependent.
one other thing that puzzles me about the whole stem-system is panning. i expect this to be one of the biggest shortcomings of my mix, due to the small screen i work with. a lot of dialog and sfx in this movie will be off-center and off-screen. it seems pretty difficult to correct placement problems once you render dialog to a stem?

Dialog is usually center channel...i.e. mono, generally. If you have overlapping dialog and you want the mixer to be able to mix it (even if it needs to be panned), you should deliver as separate tracks so that one person's dialog doesn't overlap another's. It really depends on whether you're responsible for the final mix or the re-recording mixer is. You can certainly deliver a rough stereo mix to indicate where you think dialog should be (or a rough 5.1 mix).

[danijel]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

.............
If you have overlapping dialog and you want the mixer to be able to mix it (even if it needs to be panned), you should deliver as separate tracks so that one person's dialog doesn't overlap another's.
..............

i just went through the movie, and only three (out of 15) scenes have this dialog-panning style (two characters overlapping and walking continuously), so i can bring only those scenes as separate tracks with the rough preview mix, as you suggested. shouldn't take long to redo them there. thanks!