Seeking some advice.

[b808]

Hello,

I need some help,

I really like to work in the post-production field but I really dont know how to go about doing it. I was wondering if you guys could help me because I'm not too sure as to weather I should apply for a college or take another direction.

My options are very limited because my parents and I really dont have alot of money and there really isnt any places to study this craft in my city nor are there oportunities unless you can pay by the hour, which ways heavily on me because its something I'd love to do.

Can you guys help me?

What should I do?

[Henchman]

The first question is, how old are you, and where do you live?

[b808]

I'll be 18 in a few months and I live in Jacksonville, Fl.

[soundslikejoe]

I wish I had started learning this stuff when I was your age. Kudos for that....

There is no simple answer to what you ask. School isn't for everyone but it's an experience worth having; no matter what you study. That being said, there are things you can study that would provide many financially sound career options AND help with your audio desires.

Lots of the really good audio engineers I know have degrees in electrical engineering. In the old days, when there where no schools like Full Sail, electrical engineering was the closest thing you could study. (Plus you could build your own hardware; LA2a, 1176, Neve style pre-amps.)

Internships with studios are probably even better learning enviroments for post-production audio. In that respect its always good to start with the biggest and badest in you area. Work for free for a while and learn as much as possible.

Good Luck....

[b808]

Originally Posted by joenovice

I wish I had started learning this stuff when I was your age. Kudos for that....

There is no simple answer to what you ask. School isn't for everyone but it's an experience worth having; no matter what you study. That being said, there are things you can study that would provide many financially sound career options AND help with your audio desires.

Lots of the really good audio engineers I know have degrees in electrical engineering. In the old days, when there where no schools like Full Sail, electrical engineering was the closest thing you could study. (Plus you could build your own hardware; LA2a, 1176, Neve style pre-amps.)

Internships with studios are probably even better learning enviroments for post-production audio. In that respect its always good to start with the biggest and badest in you area. Work for free for a while and learn as much as possible.

Good Luck....

Thank you very much!

I know of several studios in my city but as far as which one is the best I'm kind of clueless... I know the gear they use if that is any relevance

Ive read about the electrical engineers making good studio engineers.
I do like the idea and the community college here does have that program.
How does this internship idea work?

How did You start out?

[philper]

Originally Posted by b808

Thank you very much!

I know of several studios in my city but as far as which one is the best I'm kind of clueless... I know the gear they use if that is any relevance

Ive read about the electrical engineers making good studio engineers.
I do like the idea and the community college here does have that program.
How does this internship idea work?

How did You start out?

Not wishing to be rude, but there have been a great many requests for info like yours on this forum--why not run thru the archives and glean what you can from them? Also, there are a number of stickies at the top of the postings you should read thru as well. Do likewise on the Digidesign User Conference. It sounds like you haven't educated yourself enough to ask real questions yet, so if you are interested please get busy. Many folks here are busy working professionals who will gladly answer specific questions. There are trade schools, college courses, internships, hard experience, but you need to learn much more about this field before you can decide which will work for you.

good luck

Philip Perkins

[b808]

Thank you for your advice.

I do like the area of film score mixing and SFX Mixer so ill look more into that area. Ive been wanting to do this for sometime now and have thrown myself at the books,for lack of a better expression, and tried to gain as much knowledge as I could but it gets frustrating when all you have is books and not the real thing...

[Henchman]

Well, let me start by telling you, that if you set your mind to it, you CAN do and achieve anything you want in life. But it's going to be 100% up to you to make it happen.
I would start by getting a job, any job, and start saving money.
take some technical courses that will help you out down the road.
And then plan on moving.

I saved for 2 years, working really crappy jobs, so I could move from Holland to the US. My first job when I arrived, was working at Guitar Center.
The thing to do is set shortterm goals and longterm goals.

20 years ago, I would never have thought that I would be doing what I'm doing today for a living. But here I am today, doing what I ike to do. It's been a long trip, and it's not over yet. But I'm happy where I'm at. Not bad for a skinny kid who grew up in a small town in holland wearing leopard skin pants and sporting a mowhawk. If I can do it, you can do it too.

How much money your parents have has nothing to do with it. I moved out when I was 16. So you have the advantage you still live at home. All it takes is commitment. Don't let anyone, least of all a girlfriend, tell you you can't do something. Just focus on your goals, and work towards them.

If there is any kind of post facility around, try and get some kind of job or internship there. No matter what it is.
You will not start out as a mixer. Most don't. But keep that as your main end goal.
And if you really want to work in film, you will have to move to LA or New York.

[jacobfarron]

Jacksonville isn't a bad place for both production or post. Orlando is a bit better - I work out of here. I'd reccomend going to school for either audio or electrical before looking for work or intern spots. No one I know of accepts people without any knowledge.

[Alan H Chang]

IMO, I would suggest attending a community college and take some audio courses, math too. While you're at it, ask the professors there to see if they can recommend you somewhere to intern for post-related experience. Just remember to do well at school at the same time, you wouldn't want to fall behind.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, let me start by telling you, that if you set your mind to it, you CAN do and achieve anything you want in life. But it's going to be 100% up to you to make it happen.
I would start by getting a job, any job, and start saving money.
take some technical courses that will help you out down the road.
And then plan on moving.

I saved for 2 years, working really crappy jobs, so I could move from Holland to the US. My first job when I arrived, was working at Guitar Center.
The thing to do is set shortterm goals and longterm goals.

20 years ago, I would never have thought that I would be doing what I'm doing today for a living. But here I am today, doing what I ike to do. It's been a long trip, and it's not over yet. But I'm happy where I'm at. Not bad for a skinny kid who grew up in a small town in holland wearing leopard skin pants and sporting a mowhawk. If I can do it, you can do it too.

How much money your parents have has nothing to do with it. I moved out when I was 16. So you have the advantage you still live at home. All it takes is commitment. Don't let anyone, least of all a girlfriend, tell you you can't do something. Just focus on your goals, and work towards them.

If there is any kind of post facility around, try and get some kind of job or internship there. No matter what it is.
You will not start out as a mixer. Most don't. But keep that as your main end goal.
And if you really want to work in film, you will have to move to LA or New York.

You have a great life story and are a really strong character. I've been following your threads thru your consideration of and then move to LA from the NW, and I'm really glad that you've been able to get traction in LA in post. Where I have to "get off the bus" w/ you is when you say that you have to live/work in LA or NY to work in film. We know that is an exaggeration--you yourself were very busy in your former town. I can understand being unhappy with the work one is getting and wanting a shot at the big time, but there are many of us working in audio post outside LA/NY (not mention London, Paris, Hong Kong, Sydney, Toronto etc) that are busy doing more work than we can handle. Not everyone who wants to work in the business needs to move to LA. Aren't you glad of that? Just kidding. I hope you are getting more the sort of work you wanted when you left the NW.

Philip Perkins

[Henchman]

You are correct Philip, about workign in other cities.
Certainly London, Paris, Hong Kong, and Sydney belong in the category of working on bigger films.
From what I have heard, business in Toronto has been down for along time.

But, if you are a US citizen, LA or New York are the places to be. However, for younger people, special visas are available that allow them to work in foreign counries. I woulld certainly recommend trying to go to London as well. aris and Hong Kong could have issues ebcause o the language barier.

[OJCamero]

Hey there,

It's great to see you have an interest in the Audio Post industry and I wish the best for your future. I myself lived in Jacksonville, FL from 1999-2005. If you are able to get a school loan together I would HIGHLY suggest looking into Full Sail's Recording Arts program in Orlando. I graduated last year and I honestly can't tell you how much I learned in that place. Every single thing I read has helped me out with every project I have worked on since. I ended up moving to Los Angeles and continuing my education in Film at the LA Film school in order to get a better understanding of the film industry. Now I am off to San Franciso to try and work my way into Skywalker Sound. I'm a firm believer in the "You have have anything you want, you just have to want it bad enough" moto. Keep your head in there, and when you arn't in school, read read read read. You will learn so much from these forums and books. Just remember that you are always a student, even when you are no longer in school. Keep yourself updated and don't loose focus of your goals. You will come across times when you feel that things arn't working out. I have had alot of those instances thinking of how I would get into Skywalker but just keep strong and keep pushing forward.

Good luck,

Osmin Camero
OJCamero@gmail.com
OsminCamero.com
Digidesign Pro Tools HD7 | Post Certified

[Henchman]

I agree with OJCamero, always aim high.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Henchman

You are correct Philip, about workign in other cities.
Certainly London, Paris, Hong Kong, and Sydney belong in the category of working on bigger films.
From what I have heard, business in Toronto has been down for along time.

But, if you are a US citizen, LA or New York are the places to be. However, for younger people, special visas are available that allow them to work in foreign counries. I woulld certainly recommend trying to go to London as well. aris and Hong Kong could have issues ebcause o the language barier.

Hench--how many US cities have you worked audio post in? Even a small market like SF has a lot going on--the business is a lot more decentralized than it used to be. One has choices about where one wants to be now. I rather like the idea of developing local markets outside NY and LA, especially for smaller and mid-sized jobs. The networks certainly don't seem to care where I am.

Philip Perkins

[b808]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, let me start by telling you, that if you set your mind to it, you CAN do and achieve anything you want in life. But it's going to be 100% up to you to make it happen.
I would start by getting a job, any job, and start saving money.
take some technical courses that will help you out down the road.
And then plan on moving.

I saved for 2 years, working really crappy jobs, so I could move from Holland to the US. My first job when I arrived, was working at Guitar Center.
The thing to do is set shortterm goals and longterm goals.

20 years ago, I would never have thought that I would be doing what I'm doing today for a living. But here I am today, doing what I ike to do. It's been a long trip, and it's not over yet. But I'm happy where I'm at. Not bad for a skinny kid who grew up in a small town in holland wearing leopard skin pants and sporting a mowhawk. If I can do it, you can do it too.

How much money your parents have has nothing to do with it. I moved out when I was 16. So you have the advantage you still live at home. All it takes is commitment. Don't let anyone, least of all a girlfriend, tell you you can't do something. Just focus on your goals, and work towards them.

If there is any kind of post facility around, try and get some kind of job or internship there. No matter what it is.
You will not start out as a mixer. Most don't. But keep that as your main end goal.
And if you really want to work in film, you will have to move to LA or New York.

Thank you so much! You have a fantastic story!
This is a big morale booster for me. Thank you.
I found a studio here that does commercials for T.V. but I'm still looking.
I understand that the majority of my time will be spent as a fly on the wall but I'll be happy just to be in that kind of enviorment. Thank you.

[b808]

Originally Posted by OJCamero

Hey there,

It's great to see you have an interest in the Audio Post industry and I wish the best for your future. I myself lived in Jacksonville, FL from 1999-2005. If you are able to get a school loan together I would HIGHLY suggest looking into Full Sail's Recording Arts program in Orlando. I graduated last year and I honestly can't tell you how much I learned in that place. Every single thing I read has helped me out with every project I have worked on since. I ended up moving to Los Angeles and continuing my education in Film at the LA Film school in order to get a better understanding of the film industry. Now I am off to San Franciso to try and work my way into Skywalker Sound. I'm a firm believer in the "You have have anything you want, you just have to want it bad enough" moto. Keep your head in there, and when you arn't in school, read read read read. You will learn so much from these forums and books. Just remember that you are always a student, even when you are no longer in school. Keep yourself updated and don't loose focus of your goals. You will come across times when you feel that things arn't working out. I have had alot of those instances thinking of how I would get into Skywalker but just keep strong and keep pushing forward.

Good luck,

Osmin Camero
OJCamero@gmail.com
OsminCamero.com
Digidesign Pro Tools HD7 | Post Certified

Thanks OJ!
I hope you get in Skysound! I dont blame you for wanting to work there It looks like a very nice place. I always wanted to work at Todd-AO.... some amazing stuff comes out of there.

I did do some research into full sail and I like what I see but it does come with its cost (ouch!) that seems to get higher every year, but hey beggars cant be choosers huh Do you know of any scholarship programs they support?

[b808]

Originally Posted by Henchman

You are correct Philip, about workign in other cities.
Certainly London, Paris, Hong Kong, and Sydney belong in the category of working on bigger films.
From what I have heard, business in Toronto has been down for along time.

But, if you are a US citizen, LA or New York are the places to be. However, for younger people, special visas are available that allow them to work in foreign counries. I woulld certainly recommend trying to go to London as well. aris and Hong Kong could have issues ebcause o the language barier.

Thats pretty interesting. Just to understand, what do you mean by bigger films?

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by b808

Thats pretty interesting. Just to understand, what do you mean by bigger films?

Hollywood style, Oscar winning blockbusters.

It all depends on what you want to do.
Some people have no desire to work in that type of environment.
Some do.
Some people thinkt hey do, and find they don't.

I do aspire to work on big films at some point.

[b808]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

Jacksonville isn't a bad place for both production or post. Orlando is a bit better - I work out of here. I'd reccomend going to school for either audio or electrical before looking for work or intern spots. No one I know of accepts people without any knowledge.

True. I am finding a couple of studios that do film post, nothing major but its a start. Im really condidering the electrical engineer route but are sure a post house, as opposed to a recording studio, would accept an electrical engineering intern? or am I just confusing myself...

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by philper

Hench--how many US cities have you worked audio post in? Even a small market like SF has a lot going on--the business is a lot more decentralized than it used to be. One has choices about where one wants to be now. I rather like the idea of developing local markets outside NY and LA, especially for smaller and mid-sized jobs. The networks certainly don't seem to care where I am.

Philip Perkins

Well, I aspire to working on big films.
It might never happen, but that's my goal.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by b808

True. I am finding a couple of studios that do film post, nothing major but its a start. Im really condidering the electrical engineer route but are sure a post house, as opposed to a recording studio, would accept an electrical engineering intern?

I started in a smaller market, and learnt alot.
I had a technical background, as Iw ent to a technical Highschool and took basic electronics when I lived in Holland. Long before I decided to become an audio-engineer.
I found that by training the technical part of my brain, I found it very easy to understand alot of technical stuff, and routign issues that pop up in audio.
I suggest you go and talk to the post studio you're talign abotu, and start developing a relationship with them.
And above all, start developing your people skils. Because it's your peronality and people skills that will be your number one asset in this field.

[b808]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Hollywood style, Oscar winning blockbusters.

It all depends on what you want to do.
Some people have no desire to work in that type of environment.
Some do.
Some people thinkt hey do, and find they don't.

I do aspire to work on big films at some point.

hmm, well put.
Why do you think that is?
I did read some articles about Pinewood and Yellow Cab studios doing some renovations... so I guess they are doing well for themselves.

[OJCamero]

Originally Posted by b808

Thanks OJ!
I hope you get in Skysound! I dont blame you for wanting to work there It looks like a very nice place. I always wanted to work at Todd-AO.... some amazing stuff comes out of there.

I did do some research into full sail and I like what I see but it does come with its cost (ouch!) that seems to get higher every year, but hey beggars cant be choosers huh Do you know of any scholarship programs they support?

Thank you! I have been spending every free moment of my time researching each and every employee that works there making sure to take notes, gear in the facility, and as much background information as possible. Most people say I'm crazy but I guess it just puts me one step ahead of the next guy. As for Todd-AO, you are correct. There is a lot of good material that comes out of there. One of the Re-record mixers there "Marc Fishman" is a Full Sail Alumni. He worked on Crash. I try to keep in touch with him but his busy schedule has made it impossible for us to get together for lunch.

As for the scholarship programs, man scholarships are a lot harder to get than I thought. Not in the sense of applying but rather finding one. There are so many of them out there. I gave up on the scholarship idea after about a week and just went head first into debt with a school loan. Granted it is a lot of money but when you think about the long term it really is worth it. You can't put a price on education. I try to think about it in the sense of; I love what I do which makes me good at it. Money will eventually follow. If you love what you do, you will be great at it. This will lead to more jobs and you will never look at it in the sense of working. I think Dann Thompson, audio engineer at Skywalker Sound, said it best with "I found a fool to pay me to enjoy myself!" How much better can that be?

[OJCamero]

Originally Posted by b808

hmm, well put.
Why do you think that is?
I did read some articles about Pinewood and Yellow Cab studios doing some renovations... so I guess they are doing well for themselves.

I don't know what Mark's answer would be to this question however I can tell you from what I have overheard in the past. The bigger the project, the more money that is involved. More money equals more opinions and more restrictions. Some people don't mind working in these confinements. Others do. Some people just enjoy the craft and would rather work on small productions doing what they do best with fewer restrictions. The feature film market is such a small percentage of the sound world. If it's not your cup of tea then there are a lot of other options available. Me personally, I love a challenge and feel that having those restrictions and time constraints will force me to become more resourceful.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by OJCamero

I don't know what Mark's answer would be to this question however I can tell you from what I have overheard in the past. The bigger the project, the more money that is involved. More money equals more opinions and more restrictions. Some people don't mind working in these confinements. Others do. Some people just enjoy the craft and would rather work on small productions doing what they do best with fewer restrictions. The feature film market is such a small percentage of the sound world. If it's not your cup of tea then there are a lot of other options available. Me personally, I love a challenge and feel that having those restrictions and time constraints will force me to become more resourceful.

My experience has been, the smaller the budget, the bigger the nightmare and hassle, and the more un realsitic expectations from everyone involved, that land in your lap.
You get NO time to be creative, unless you want to be putting in countless hours for free.
Genereally you have to work 10 times as hard to make the really crappy production audio passable, in less time.

So, yes. I prefer to get to the point where I'm working on bigger stuff, where time is budgeted more appropriatly than the "mix this action packed feature in 3 Days. Oh, and all that ADR that was requested, we didn't do it because the actor decided that it sounded good enough".

[b808]

Originally Posted by OJCamero

Thank you! I have been spending every free moment of my time researching each and every employee that works there making sure to take notes, gear in the facility, and as much background information as possible. Most people say I'm crazy but I guess it just puts me one step ahead of the next guy. As for Todd-AO, you are correct. There is a lot of good material that comes out of there. One of the Re-record mixers there "Marc Fishman" is a Full Sail Alumni. He worked on Crash. I try to keep in touch with him but his busy schedule has made it impossible for us to get together for lunch.

As for the scholarship programs, man scholarships are a lot harder to get than I thought. Not in the sense of applying but rather finding one. There are so many of them out there. I gave up on the scholarship idea after about a week and just went head first into debt with a school loan. Granted it is a lot of money but when you think about the long term it really is worth it. You can't put a price on education. I try to think about it in the sense of; I love what I do which makes me good at it. Money will eventually follow. If you love what you do, you will be great at it. This will lead to more jobs and you will never look at it in the sense of working. I think Dann Thompson, audio engineer at Skywalker Sound, said it best with "I found a fool to pay me to enjoy myself!" How much better can that be?

LoL, I love the Dann Thompson line!
Do you think Full Sail's program is more recording and production focused then post production? Is there really a diffrence between the two?

[b808]

Originally Posted by OJCamero

I don't know what Mark's answer would be to this question however I can tell you from what I have overheard in the past. The bigger the project, the more money that is involved. More money equals more opinions and more restrictions. Some people don't mind working in these confinements. Others do. Some people just enjoy the craft and would rather work on small productions doing what they do best with fewer restrictions. The feature film market is such a small percentage of the sound world. If it's not your cup of tea then there are a lot of other options available. Me personally, I love a challenge and feel that having those restrictions and time constraints will force me to become more resourceful.

Ditto on that! I gues I could handle that enviorment as my background in FOH Engineering at many churches.. but then im only guessing..

[b808]

Originally Posted by Henchman

My experience has been, the smaller the budget, the bigger the nightmare and hassle, and the more un realsitic expectations from everyone involved, that land in your lap.
You get NO time to be creative, unless you want to be putting in countless hours for free.
Genereally you have to work 10 times as hard to make the really crappy production audio passable, in less time.

So, yes. I prefer to get to the point where I'm working on bigger stuff, where time is budgeted more appropriatly than the "mix this action packed feature in 3 Days. Oh, and all that ADR that was requested, we didn't do it because the actor decided that it sounded good enough".

I see. Thank you. What is your average timeline for an average job, say a small 45min documentary? What do you think is the hardest part of the job?

I see you work at Post Modern Sound. I'm facinated with euphonix and thier Eucon protocal is there anyway you elaborate on your experiance with thier products?

[b808]

Is there any reading material that you guys would recommened me looking at?

Ive read various manuals and handbooks on sound reinforcement and mixing and console design but nothing on the subject of post-production and editing.