Best Camera format under $5,000?

Jay- · 2nd January 2008, 06:39 PM

Im doing an internship and documentry.
Pretty big names will be around.

All I have is a Sony PD-150 and ME66/K6 (DV25)
Half of me thinks, screw it, I like that cam.

But on the flip side I want to protect my self and have something picked out a bit higher end.

Two cams that come to mind..

HDV Camcorder JVC GY-HD110U $5300
Sony HVR-Z1U HVRZ1U 3-CCD HDV $4200

Id like to get a higher image quality then DV25 so im shopping around.
Any ideas?

samkokajko · 2nd January 2008, 07:08 PM

Whatever you do don't go HDV format. It is extremely problematic. While it is higher resolution than DV (or DVCAM) it isn't really true HD. The JVC camera is miles ahead of the Z1U (which by the way if you choose to go HDV and Sony go with the V1U instead, it's cheaper and better). The one I would really suggest honestly is the Panasonic AG-HVX200. It will throw you over the $5k mark though once you really accessorize it. I actually work for a Panasonic dealer and one thing I would suggest is buying "BSTOCK", it's just as good as new except the warranty is shorter (90 days but you can get an extended 4 yr warranty for under $300) and you don't get rebates (with the amount you save you can buy the rebate items). I know I recently sold a guy an HVX with a P2 card for about $4,800 BSTOCK. You might need two cards though, (another $800 or so). The HVX really kicks butt in image quality and it records to solid state memory with no moving parts so it's extremely reliable. The biggest thing to remember if you go with HDV is that the video is still squeezed onto a standard miniDV tape, which means it is horribly compressed. Check out Omega Broadcast Group and give those guys a call. They will take time with you and make sure you get the right camera, and they will beat anyones price.

Jay- · 2nd January 2008, 07:14 PM

One thinking I forgot to mention, All capturing is done with a Dell XPS 12 inch laptop 7200 HDD and dvrack. Not sure if I get better image but we have the laptop and dvrack (now called adobe onlocation)

thanks for the cheap work around Bstock idea. My PD-150 was a demo unit and cost $3200 back when they were current products.

kedbear · 3rd January 2008, 02:04 AM

HDV cameras can produce excellent images if you know what you are doing, doing a decent online helps alot as well (which is out of your reach by the sounds of it). I certainly wouldn't worry too much about the compression onto a miniDV tape. Last year i shot a low budget feature on a Z1 in black and white that was onlined to HDCAM (graded and field merged for a progressive film-like look) and projected in a cinema in HD and it looked amazing. However there are downsides to the Z1. The first is that it's colour reproduction isn't the best (though you can get creative with grading), the other is that it has a fixed lens allowing less flexibility with Depth of Field, wideness etc, and also that it isn't progressive (though i think the newer models are now).

The JVC is a lovely camera because it can shoot true progressive (for a film like look), lovely film-like colour reproduction and has interchangeable lenses, which, if you know what you are doing, give you greater flexibility working with depth of field for a nicer look. The downside with the JVC is the workflow when you shoot in HDV. It is only untill recently that the cameras have worked with some editing systems such as final cut pro. However if you are on a PC there is a program that works fine, the name of which i can't remember!! It's NOT AVID. The downside is you have to have a card with it that costs extra bucks. The JVC cameras have had a firmware update that allows them to work better than they did before in terms of compatibility with editing systems, you'll need to check up on this though. If you don't need to use HDV then using the camera in DVCAM mode is a breeze and looks great. It is only worth shooting HDV if your client can play back on an HD monitor through an HD deck or HDDVD etc.

The HVX200 is a fantastic camera. It shoots progressive, has variable frame rates etc. Down side is if shooting in HD you have to use P2 cards which are a royal pain in the arse. It means you will need two P2 cards (16GB ones record i think 16mins) so that when you have finished shooting on one you can pop the other in whilst you upload the other to a hard disk. However this means having someone with a laptop and serous hard drive space/ extra hard drives with you the whole time who is dedicated to uploading the things. Again, it's only worth going this route if your images will be watched back through HD monitors etc. Also the other downside is the lens. Again, it is fixed allowing for less flexibility. You can use a movie tube and chuck 35mm primes on it which looks amazing but costs alot and you would need a pro focus puller + alot of light to get a decent F-stop. Probably beyond what you are doing. (good thing about HVX also is you could get decent rental prices when you are not using it, it's a camera in demand).

In light of this though i can say that unless you know what you are doing and how to get the best from a camera and know how to light/have a good feel for light/composition then it's pretty pointless getting a great camera. I've seen stuff shot on HDCAM sony 750 ($80,000 without lenses) that looks pretty bad, and stuff shot on a panasonic DVX100a ($2000) that looks fantastic. The DVX100a really is a great camera by the way. Lovely film-like colour reproduction and shoots progressive. MiniDV only, but seriously it's the person behind these things that counts. The DVX100a will be a significant step up from the PD150, way nicer (but only in 25P and with the cine-tone settings on). Put the rest of the money into some lights and time to watch and learn/experiment.

Good luck.

riffster · 3rd January 2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedbear

The DVX100a really is a great camera by the way. Lovely film-like colour reproduction and shoots progressive. MiniDV only, but seriously it's the person behind these things that counts. The DVX100a will be a significant step up from the PD150, way nicer (but only in 25P and with the cine-tone settings on). Put the rest of the money into some lights and time to watch and learn/experiment.

Good luck.

Ditto. I recommend the AG-DVX100 as well.

philper · 3rd January 2008, 11:08 PM

You mentioned recording directly to your laptop--you can do that w/ the HVX200 if you want. The method is frought w/ problems for normal dramatic or doco shooting, but it is possible. Keep in mind that the HDV cameras produce (I think) inferior audio to even mini-DV cams. I have done jobs w/ all of them and what I hear coming back from the small Sony HDVs doesn't sound much like what I'm sending it. (Audio is recorded w/ lossy compression, MPEG4, not PCM as in mini-DV.) There some other hassles and gotchas w/ HDV due to the whole "Group of Pictures" interframe compression scheme--make sure you have you post workflow figured out before you start.

Philip Perkins

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2nd January 2008, 06:39 PM	#1
Jay- Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 875	Best Camera format under $5,000? Im doing an internship and documentry. Pretty big names will be around. All I have is a Sony PD-150 and ME66/K6 (DV25) Half of me thinks, screw it, I like that cam. But on the flip side I want to protect my self and have something picked out a bit higher end. Two cams that come to mind.. HDV Camcorder JVC GY-HD110U $5300 Sony HVR-Z1U HVRZ1U 3-CCD HDV $4200 Id like to get a higher image quality then DV25 so im shopping around. Any ideas? __________________ ~Cell phone free for over 15 years..~

2nd January 2008, 07:08 PM	#2
samkokajko Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1	Don't go HDV Whatever you do don't go HDV format. It is extremely problematic. While it is higher resolution than DV (or DVCAM) it isn't really true HD. The JVC camera is miles ahead of the Z1U (which by the way if you choose to go HDV and Sony go with the V1U instead, it's cheaper and better). The one I would really suggest honestly is the Panasonic AG-HVX200. It will throw you over the $5k mark though once you really accessorize it. I actually work for a Panasonic dealer and one thing I would suggest is buying "BSTOCK", it's just as good as new except the warranty is shorter (90 days but you can get an extended 4 yr warranty for under $300) and you don't get rebates (with the amount you save you can buy the rebate items). I know I recently sold a guy an HVX with a P2 card for about $4,800 BSTOCK. You might need two cards though, (another $800 or so). The HVX really kicks butt in image quality and it records to solid state memory with no moving parts so it's extremely reliable. The biggest thing to remember if you go with HDV is that the video is still squeezed onto a standard miniDV tape, which means it is horribly compressed. Check out Omega Broadcast Group and give those guys a call. They will take time with you and make sure you get the right camera, and they will beat anyones price.

2nd January 2008, 07:14 PM	#3
Jay- Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 875	One thinking I forgot to mention, All capturing is done with a Dell XPS 12 inch laptop 7200 HDD and dvrack. Not sure if I get better image but we have the laptop and dvrack (now called adobe onlocation) thanks for the cheap work around Bstock idea. My PD-150 was a demo unit and cost $3200 back when they were current products. __________________ ~Cell phone free for over 15 years..~

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3rd January 2008, 02:04 AM	#4
kedbear Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 226	HDV cameras can produce excellent images if you know what you are doing, doing a decent online helps alot as well (which is out of your reach by the sounds of it). I certainly wouldn't worry too much about the compression onto a miniDV tape. Last year i shot a low budget feature on a Z1 in black and white that was onlined to HDCAM (graded and field merged for a progressive film-like look) and projected in a cinema in HD and it looked amazing. However there are downsides to the Z1. The first is that it's colour reproduction isn't the best (though you can get creative with grading), the other is that it has a fixed lens allowing less flexibility with Depth of Field, wideness etc, and also that it isn't progressive (though i think the newer models are now). The JVC is a lovely camera because it can shoot true progressive (for a film like look), lovely film-like colour reproduction and has interchangeable lenses, which, if you know what you are doing, give you greater flexibility working with depth of field for a nicer look. The downside with the JVC is the workflow when you shoot in HDV. It is only untill recently that the cameras have worked with some editing systems such as final cut pro. However if you are on a PC there is a program that works fine, the name of which i can't remember!! It's NOT AVID. The downside is you have to have a card with it that costs extra bucks. The JVC cameras have had a firmware update that allows them to work better than they did before in terms of compatibility with editing systems, you'll need to check up on this though. If you don't need to use HDV then using the camera in DVCAM mode is a breeze and looks great. It is only worth shooting HDV if your client can play back on an HD monitor through an HD deck or HDDVD etc. The HVX200 is a fantastic camera. It shoots progressive, has variable frame rates etc. Down side is if shooting in HD you have to use P2 cards which are a royal pain in the arse. It means you will need two P2 cards (16GB ones record i think 16mins) so that when you have finished shooting on one you can pop the other in whilst you upload the other to a hard disk. However this means having someone with a laptop and serous hard drive space/ extra hard drives with you the whole time who is dedicated to uploading the things. Again, it's only worth going this route if your images will be watched back through HD monitors etc. Also the other downside is the lens. Again, it is fixed allowing for less flexibility. You can use a movie tube and chuck 35mm primes on it which looks amazing but costs alot and you would need a pro focus puller + alot of light to get a decent F-stop. Probably beyond what you are doing. (good thing about HVX also is you could get decent rental prices when you are not using it, it's a camera in demand). In light of this though i can say that unless you know what you are doing and how to get the best from a camera and know how to light/have a good feel for light/composition then it's pretty pointless getting a great camera. I've seen stuff shot on HDCAM sony 750 ($80,000 without lenses) that looks pretty bad, and stuff shot on a panasonic DVX100a ($2000) that looks fantastic. The DVX100a really is a great camera by the way. Lovely film-like colour reproduction and shoots progressive. MiniDV only, but seriously it's the person behind these things that counts. The DVX100a will be a significant step up from the PD150, way nicer (but only in 25P and with the cine-tone settings on). Put the rest of the money into some lights and time to watch and learn/experiment. Good luck.

3rd January 2008, 11:08 PM	#6
philper Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 643	You mentioned recording directly to your laptop--you can do that w/ the HVX200 if you want. The method is frought w/ problems for normal dramatic or doco shooting, but it is possible. Keep in mind that the HDV cameras produce (I think) inferior audio to even mini-DV cams. I have done jobs w/ all of them and what I hear coming back from the small Sony HDVs doesn't sound much like what I'm sending it. (Audio is recorded w/ lossy compression, MPEG4, not PCM as in mini-DV.) There some other hassles and gotchas w/ HDV due to the whole "Group of Pictures" interframe compression scheme--make sure you have you post workflow figured out before you start. Philip Perkins