tips for voiceover noob needed

[andychamp]

Hi there!
I usually do more band-related stuff, but I've got some voice-over recording/engineering jobs coming up. Apparently there will be some high-profile artists to record (I haven't heard any names, but I've seen the "talent budget", so I guess we're talking professional actors/speakers)
I'd be glad for some tips / do's and dont's/ gotta-have's specifically related to voiceover work.
Also, what kind of material should I ask the film crew to deliver, to be able to work as efficiently as possible? (stems, timecode, etc...?)
The only thing I know for sure right now, is that it'll be in 48kHz.

Thanks for any help.

[soundguydave]

Don't get yourself in over your head. Do find someone that knows what they are doing. How would you respond if I said " I mostly do post work, but radiohead is coming in this weekend and I need a few tips on how to mic drums and how do you record a vocal right"

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by soundguydave

(...)Do find someone that knows what they are doing. (...)

You're absolutely right.
I mean, what was I thinking, to ask a question like that in the Post Production forum at Gearslutz? How dumb was that?
I'm so sorry I wasted your precious time with my blatant stupidity. And how kind of you to answer anyway, giving away all that hard-earned knowledge and wisdom for free.

Originally Posted by soundguydave

(...)How would you respond if I said " I mostly do post work, but radiohead is coming in this weekend and I need a few tips on how to mic drums and how do you record a vocal right"

I would either (A) share my practical experience or (B) shut up but keep lurking, in case I might learn something.


Now, if someone else out there isn't put off by my obviously ungrateful attitude and is willing to share any insight on the matter at hand, I'll gladly listen.
Thank you very much.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Andre,
Use year ears and match good mic and good pre-amp with the voice.
Record the talend with a little compression, and little Eq. Do not overcompress or use strong eq settings in the preamp.
During recording make notes, and listen to the director/producer very carefully.
Be ready to find this take or another take (this is what notes are for).
React immidiately but very politely, if any mistake is done, so the line could be repeated and revised.
48kHz is a standard in post.
If you could describe, what this VO recording is exactly for, I would give you more details, what you should excpect from producers before this session.
Ask about delivery - what kind of materials you are expected to prepare in the end of the session.
VO recording could be similar to vocal recording, so as you said, with your experience, you should not have problems with make the session running...

Hope this helps
Kuba

[andychamp]

Thanks so far.
Compression and EQ are some of the things I wasn't so sure about.
I know from experience just how much variation is possible by using different mics/pres/proximity/etc...
What I don't know is: how aware are producers/directors of this? Do they care at all? Or will they rely on me to make some decisions? I don't think visually, and I can't really expect a film person to think in audio terms.
I'll start off on the safe side, getting as clean and neutral a signal as I can.

This is one situation where technical expertise is the only element I can bring to the table so far. I just hope the "executives" have a clear picture of what they want, because for the moment, I can't share their vision.

And I don't want to make the situation uncomfortable for the Artist. Right now it looks like he/she will be the most professional person involved. I'll probably be second and the rest of the bunch will be the overfunded artsy type. So I'll kinda have to hold everything together, while at the same time recording.

I'm really looking forward to a new experience, but I'd like to go in as well prepared as I can.

Thanks so far & keep'em coming

[postprosound]

Andy,
I also have to ask, does this have to do with ADR or only VO like you mentioned? is it for film? TV? Commercials? as far as what the producers/ directors are going to do; it's been my experience that they can be very opinionated. this is fine since it's their project. often times, film editors sit in as well, and they too have a specific thing in mind that they want to take away. and if this is for ADR... the ADR editor will be there. they know what's going on, and tend to be the most technically savvy people of the bunch, in this regard.
The bottom line is, go with the flow. you are the technical hands for their art.

(and just as a recomendation, they might want files, and/or a protools session. as a back up, also have a DAT recording everything, as a just in case. (and if it's possible, have it in time-code sync)

i hope this helps....

[andychamp]

AFAIK, it'll be an off-voice, comment type of recording. There should already be some live dialogue and music on the tape (I just hope they're not already pre-mixed). There might even be the whole soundtrack to mix afterwards.

The whole project is for a multimedia/artschool. Mucho ideas & funds, not much of a clue. I'm not really expecting any TV/movie professionals, at least on that session. Luckily for me they don't have a VO cabin but know someone who does (i.e. yours truly).
It wouldn't require any new purchases for me to add something new to my services. And while I love recording rock bands, I'd rather record VO than nothing when business is slow.

Regarding timecode: I don't think there will be any on the files I'll get to work on, so I'll probably have to add it myself.
What kind of code would be best for the next in line (probably those making copies) to work with?
SMPTE?/how many frames?/drop or not?
It'll be for european/PAL format.

[andychamp]

To get a bit sluttier:
would TLM103 -> GR MP500NV -> Distressor be a good signal chain to start with?

(alternatives:RE20/MD421/M88TG//API512c/Voxbox/Germ//1176/LangevinELOP)

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by andychamp

...
would TLM103 -> GR MP500NV -> Distressor be a good signal chain to start with?

It's a good combo. But keep your levels conservative and either skip the Distressor or set it so it's not doing anything other than last-resort limiting.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by andychamp

To get a bit sluttier:
would TLM103 -> GR MP500NV -> Distressor be a good signal chain to start with?

(alternatives:RE20/MD421/M88TG//API512c/Voxbox/Germ//1176/LangevinELOP)

I don't have a Distressor, but my understanding is that it's not intended to be a gentle, transparent processor. I'd go with the 1176, set to barely register on the hot spots. And as long as your signal path is clean---which it will be with the TLM103 and Great River---don't be afraid to record a little softer than you think is right. I.e., don't squash it too much, and back off on the preamp input if there's even the slightest chance of distortion.

[auvarov]

Hello,

the 103 is a great mic, and it tends to sit well in the mix with a slight roll-off in the bottom end, but there are some voices that sound very harsh through it. If that is the case, I would go for an RE20. If you can get your hands on a 416, by all means try that too. The truth of the matter is - no one can suggest a "perfect chain," since all voices are different and certain mics may not sound as good as some others. If I'm doing ADR, I'd put up a 416 (or MKH60, or a KMR81) since those mics will already put me closer to the sound of a production track. If it's straight up narration, then it's usually an LDC of some sort.
I'm not sure if you're mixing the end product, or sending it off to another studio, but as far as preamps go, I'd go for transparency, not color. It's a personal preference, I may be wrong on it. Good luck with it!

[soundguydave]

I'm sorry if you thought my post was mean, but its the truth. If clients are shelling out big cash for high profile talent (and I'm assuming some sort of celebrity here) then the last thing you would want is to mess that up. You're trying to get an education over a message board, and I am just trying to warn you to not get in over your head. While the tools we use for music and post are similar, the techniques are very different and both take years to master.

But I'll keep quiet now and let you on your way.

[Ricey]

i never record VO with EQ or compression. i also record at levels low enough that the only sound that would need limiting would be if they kicked the mic stand.

[andychamp]

Re: compression. Obviously not a good idea in VO recording, and I can see why.
Like a good musician, a good speaker should have good control of his dynamics.
But what if they don't? What kind of dynamic range should I expect?

[andychamp]

What about non-technical stuff?

Rock bands usually need (and get) a fridge with beer, lots of ashtrays, game console/TV/DVD, directions to nearest McD or Sushi bar, etc... Kids-in-a-toystore type thing.

What about actors/speakers? Is there some kind of ambience that helps them deliver?

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by soundguydave

I'm sorry if you thought my post was mean, but its the truth. If clients are shelling out big cash for high profile talent (and I'm assuming some sort of celebrity here) then the last thing you would want is to mess that up. You're trying to get an education over a message board, and I am just trying to warn you to not get in over your head. While the tools we use for music and post are similar, the techniques are very different and both take years to master.

But I'll keep quiet now and let you on your way.

Points taken.
But aside from handing the gig over to someone else, there's no way I can avoid taking any risk at all.
But I want to take this opportunity and be as prepared as I can. I know that I can't learn all about VO that fast.
There is actually some comfort in knowing that you don't know all. And I won't be too proud to ask the more experienced folks at the date.
Just trying to come across with a pro attitude (i.e. willingness to adapt and learn) where I lack the actual knowledge.

[georgia]

another thing I do is use 2 mics... I use a TLM103 and a Condenser slightly off axis. I track both into a stereo track and then edit the track as if its one mic. Once i've got every thing recorded I select the appropriate mic for any given line(s). Also, I track to two sets of tracks. The first stereo track is simple. Mic to Pre to Track. The second stereo track is a mult that comes off themic pre to a second input recording slightly hotter and then to a compressor/limiter that just keeps anything from clipping. That way i've got a nice level whether the talent gets quiet or loud and I don't need to stop the session and get another take because the last one was way to soft or way to loud.

end result 4 tracks from 2 mics with a "hot" pair and a "normal" pair of pre's with comp/limiting and not... lots of options later with no real extra work from my part or the talents.


my bad.. i wrote this in a hurry between things and I didn't type what I meant. thanks for the catch.

cheers
geo

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

I don't have a Distressor, but my understanding is that it's not intended to be a gentle, transparent processor. I'd go with the 1176, set to barely register on the hot spots. And as long as your signal path is clean---which it will be with the TLM103 and Great River---don't be afraid to record a little softer than you think is right. I.e., don't squash it too much, and back off on the preamp input if there's even the slightest chance of distortion.

Originally Posted by andychamp

Re: compression. Obviously not a good idea in VO recording, and I can see why.
Like a good musician, a good speaker should have good control of his dynamics.
But what if they don't? What kind of dynamic range should I expect?

There's nothing wrong with recording with compression as long as you know what you're doing. You can set the tone as you would like if you know that you're the one that's going to mix. For voice-over work I favour a little compression, not necessarily for keeping the level steady but also for the sound. Some dislike compression very much and some don't.

As for the Distressor, it's a fine compressor and it will work fine on voiceovers too. I got one too. It can be clean and gentle as well. However it would not be my first choice as a dialogue compressor, not because of the sound but because it's a bit hard to setup. The thing is it sounds slightly different and reacts slightly different at different ratios because the knee changes.

I would take a compressor with threshold control, and a ratio control which you can adjust without having to cycle thru the ratios for convenience.

[Tommylicious]

Originally Posted by andychamp

Regarding timecode: I don't think there will be any on the files I'll get to work on, so I'll probably have to add it myself.
What kind of code would be best for the next in line (probably those making copies) to work with?
SMPTE?/how many frames?/drop or not?
It'll be for european/PAL format.

SMPTE would either be 24fps or 25fps depending if the end result will be for film or TV... most likely 25fps in your case i guess.

About the mics; I would just put both the TLM and RE20 up and listen wich works best with what you're working with.

Good luck with your new experience!

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by georgia

another thing I do is use 2 mics... I use a TLM103 and a Condenser slightly off axis. I track both into a stereo track and then edit the track as if its one mic. Once i've got every thing recorded I select the appropriate mic for any given line(s). Also, I track to two sets of tracks. The first stereo track is simple. Mic to Pre to Track. The second stereo track is a mult that comes off the mic to a second Pre set slightly hotter and then to a compressor/limiter that just keeps anything from clipping. That way i've got a nice level whether the talent gets quiet or loud and I don't need to stop the session and get another take because the last one was way to soft or way to loud.

end result 4 tracks from 2 mics with a "hot" pair and a "normal" pair of pre's with comp/limiting and not... lots of options later with no real extra work from my part or the talents.

cheers
geo

Interesting. How do you mult a phantom-powered mic?

[ToddF]

I use a TLM103 and a Condenser slightly off axis
Isn't a TLM 103 a condenser mic?

Make sure the room is fairly dead sounding and quiet.
Good headphones/cue sytem.
Have a music stand, chair or stool, extra lights for the talent to see well, make sure you have a printer/copier, bottled water, tea maybe.

Try both mics re20 and 103 and see which sounds better to you and whoever is in charge. I would use the opto setting on the Distressor. Always works for us.

Set up a mic in the control room for talk back so you don't have to be running the talkback button contantly. Just make sure everyone knows they are on so they don't say something they think is private.

Good luck, Todd

[georgia]

thanks for the catch! I wrote my reply while running between gigs and I said it wrong... it's after the pre going into to record levels in protools... my bad.

cheers
geo


PS: thats what I get for rushing....

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by georgia

thanks for the catch! I wrote my reply while running between gigs and I said it wrong... it's after the pre going into to record levels in protools... my bad.

cheers
geo


PS: thats what I get for rushing....

Whew---thanks for clearing that up! As I am somewhat of a patchbay fanatic, I was going to be really bummed if this simple concept had eluded me all these years. Of course, I'm sure there are others...

[Andrew Mottl]

Wow, lot's of info, you should be fine!

Level-wise: Not too hot, but being VO it should be in a controllable dynamic range.

As for the talent: Why not get in contact beforehand and ask if he has a favourite mic to his voice? Some love a U87, others may have others, and again others might not care at all. If he trusts you to it fine. If not, why not be prepared ;-)
Comfy, non-squeaky chair, maybe a table (watch with reflections, you could put acoustic foam or a thick blanket on the table), water/tea as was suggested.

A trick I heard somewhere else: Should he happen to have a dry mouth that sounds "clicky" (as in the sound the saliva makes), have a green apple at hand. Sour helps I've been told.

Enjoy working with a wonderfully sounding voice!

[andychamp]

Thanks to all who answered so far. Lots of useful tips there.
I talked to the cameraman/editor today (he's my contact to the whole production) and got some more infos about the project.
It's a documentary and the main VO work will be for the comentary. But there will also be some short acted-out passages that will need some dubbing. The dubbing will be done by the VO artists as well (whole lotta pitch/formant manipulation goin' on!)
There will be one male and one female voice involved. I know one from radio/TV and the other from using public transport. Seeing these are real pros, I forwarded the question abo