Audio Recording Technical Institute

[lonely_john]

Worth it? Im looking at going to their program for training on gear for games or post potentially. I was thinking of nailing that program out for the 7 months and spending my nights working on MODs. they apparently have good connections with the industry, but where as another school i was looking at (full sail) has a good program it seems, they are saturated with dumb****s. ARTI also only has 6 students per class so thats beneficial. anyone heard praises/hatred for this school? sorry if this isnt the area of the forum I should post in...

Accredited Audio School
J

x-posted

[TWoZ]

Impress Georgia enough to have her let you intern at her facility. That's all the post education you will need.

[philper]

These programs are usually very expensive. Are you paying for this yourself? It seems to me that if you are technically oriented you can pick up a lot of the techno knowledge on your own or as an intern. The truth seems to be that you'll have to intern anyhow (unless you build your own room), so why not cut to the chase. As an intern, you probably won't be doing much technical at first until you are taught that studios way of doing things anyhow. For games, I don't know, do the game companies have audio interns like studios do?

Philip Perkins

[lonely_john]

Originally Posted by philper

These programs are usually very expensive. Are you paying for this yourself? It seems to me that if you are technically oriented you can pick up a lot of the techno knowledge on your own or as an intern. The truth seems to be that you'll have to intern anyhow (unless you build your own room), so why not cut to the chase. As an intern, you probably won't be doing much technical at first until you are taught that studios way of doing things anyhow. For games, I don't know, do the game companies have audio interns like studios do?

Philip Perkins

the school is only 19k. (student loans DO apply so I will have the ability to get funding where i otherwise wouldnt.)

game companies have tons of kids pounding their doors down to work for free apparently and i would want to get a leg up. another thing is, i would have no problem working post or in a recording studio and i could actually build a resume by working elsewhere just to get some time under my belt to move into a game house. it just seems like a decent place to get started and get a feel for what i want to be doing without making a 4 year commitment where i wont get to touch the gear for the first year or so.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by lonely_john

the school is only 19k. (student loans DO apply so I will have the ability to get funding where i otherwise wouldnt.)

game companies have tons of kids pounding their doors down to work for free apparently and i would want to get a leg up. another thing is, i would have no problem working post or in a recording studio and i could actually build a resume by working elsewhere just to get some time under my belt to move into a game house. it just seems like a decent place to get started and get a feel for what i want to be doing without making a 4 year commitment where i wont get to touch the gear for the first year or so.

For 19K you could put together a decent PT system. Actually, here in TN, our state schools have music industry programs. I'd always take an intern with a four-year degree over a trade school.

I looked at their site and couldn't figure out who the instructors were and by whom they are accredited.

[CraigM]

That's assuming he has 19k in his bank account. Student loans are just for.... students.

[starcrash13]

I graduated from San Francisco State University and I am SO glad that I decided to go to a traditional 4-yr school instead of a trade school. It only cost about $1200-1500 per semester and I learned about basic signal flow, analog tape, large-format consoles, basic DAW stuff, etc. The real skills and experience that allow me to do my job as a motion picture sound editor were all learned on-the-job or self-taught. Schools aren't able to achieve what real-world experience can.

More importantly, I got a well-rounded education that I believed completely changed my outlook and world view. I learned how to better communicate in written and verbal form which, believe it or not, is still relevant in the digital age.

I also know people who have been successful out of trade schools as well, so to each his own. This is just my personal experience. FWIW.

[starcrash13]

Originally Posted by CraigM

That's assuming he has 19k in his bank account. Student loans are just for.... students.

I bought my Mac with a student loan. 2.25% interest.

[UnderTow]

I did the SAE course a few years back and am happily freelancing in the post world. If ARTI is anything like SAE, you will get out of it what you put in to it.

If you are the type of student that likes to be led, you won't get very far. If you are pro-active, do allot of your own research and set your alarm clock every morning to be the first to call the school to check if there are any cancelled studio bookings that you can snatch up, you can learn allot.

Another very important factor is the quality of the individual teachers. Unfortunately that is hard to tell before you attend the school. You could get lucky or... unlucky.

I believe my SAE degree has only contributed to a small degree to my success as a freelancer. Determination, work ethics, determination, communication and social skills, determination, technical abilities, determination, a nice (pre audio career) CV, determination, flexibility, determination, a good ear, determination, attention to detail and determination had more influence. I think that determination is also quite important.

Did I mention determination?

Alistair

[Frank S.]

I went to both state school and Full Sail. I hated the classes at MTSU because there wasn't enough hands on time. At Full Sail you are hands on almost every day you're there. It is really expensive though.

Like UnderTow said...you'll get out of it what you put in.

[introvert]

Internships exist in the games world, but usually with the bigger developers. You will also often see contract jobs that may lead to full-time positions depending upon your performance.

If you want to impress a games developer, solid audio chops aren't enough. You need to prove you understand the implementation side of it, which has a significant influence over how the final product sounds. The best way to do that is to work on a MOD, or at least get your hands on an audio engine (either a dedicated one, or the audio component of an engine like Unreal or Source) and demonstrate some prowess with it.

Although games do lag in some areas compared to linear post, it's still a highly technical job, and you need to prove that you can handle the mental acrobatics required to hook up sounds, make them behave interactively, and make them sound good within the constraints of your delivery platform (which includes compressing audio in various formats, calculating for differences when working on multiplatform projects, etc).

Hope all of that doesn't scare you off. It's just stuff I wish I'd known when I first started down this path. Best of luck!

[lonely_john]

Originally Posted by introvert

Internships exist in the games world, but usually with the bigger developers. You will also often see contract jobs that may lead to full-time positions depending upon your performance.

If you want to impress a games developer, solid audio chops aren't enough. You need to prove you understand the implementation side of it, which has a significant influence over how the final product sounds. The best way to do that is to work on a MOD, or at least get your hands on an audio engine (either a dedicated one, or the audio component of an engine like Unreal or Source) and demonstrate some prowess with it.

Although games do lag in some areas compared to linear post, it's still a highly technical job, and you need to prove that you can handle the mental acrobatics required to hook up sounds, make them behave interactively, and make them sound good within the constraints of your delivery platform (which includes compressing audio in various formats, calculating for differences when working on multiplatform projects, etc).

Hope all of that doesn't scare you off. It's just stuff I wish I'd known when I first started down this path. Best of luck!

for sure. my plan at ARTI was to get some audio basics down, but because of it only being 5 hour labs a day and unlimited free access all the studios, i planned on working on a reel and working with mods in my down time. im trying to have no life for the 7 or 8 months i am there so that i can come out with more than even the school could offer me. im 23 and am not afraid to buckle down. ive drank away a couple years of school and such, so now im ready to do the job at hand...if that makes sense. ive learned my lesson. what is a good way to get in to a mod? i was at moddb and cant figure out if there is an editing software for it....confused...

[introvert]

moddb is a good place to find one. However, you might want to hit the page below to learn a bit more about the modding process in general:

Mod (computer gaming) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In short, there is an "editing software" for it, but it varies greatly depending on which mod you work on. Each mod is based upon another game, which has its own engine. So it might be a mod of Half Life, or it might be a mod of Doom, or something to that effect. There are several engines you will potentially encounter (Source for Half Life, Doom Tech for Doom, Unreal for Unreal Tournament and Gears of War), and each will have its own process for creating and implementing sounds.

A big part of this equation will be having a PC powerful enough to handle this. And before you dive in head first, it might be wise to get your hands on a moddable game that you think you'd like to work with and tinker with its sound tools, just to see how things work. You should find plenty of documentation available on the web to help guide you as you get your feet wet with this, you just have to start searching for it.

Best of luck!

[lonely_john]

i really appreciate the advice there too. i knew about the diffrent engines for games, i just dont really have a grasp on where to start and i think this will help me alot. its strange to me that so many people are in sound for video games yet there is so little info available on it and even smaller amounts of schools dedicated to it. i guess its not that diffrent than a recording engineers job....well it is vastly diffrent, but i guess you get what you can while you are coming into it so a specialized degree doesnt matter as much. thankyou again. i appreciate how helpful you all have been in all aspects. gearslutz is a ****ing kickass site. thankyou.

[georgia]

Hey give me 1/2 of what you'd pay for school and spend the other half on the gear I tell you to purchase. Then intern here 5 days a week. You can learn sound design, mixing, picture editing, CGI, Maya, rendering systems, game development, composition,color correction, project management, and other fun stuff.

I don't normally recommend audio schools as most are just money machines and really don't care about your training. The Recording institute in AZ is one of the ones that I actually would recommend. I don't know if they teach gaming theory and design.


cheers
geo

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by lonely_john

the school is only 19k. (student loans DO apply so I will have the ability to get funding where i otherwise wouldnt.)

19k Well Wasted.

When I went to a recoring school 20 years ago, they didn't teach anyhing about post, timecode atc.

But here I am working in audio-post.

[minister]

Schools are different now. they are becoming BIG BUSINESS. and for some, the only option for a job in the studio climate is to teach there. For the owners : $$$. For the market : saturation of engineers who end up working at Guitar Center and starting their own basement studios.....

AND : you would be surprised how much these kids know about Timecode, Post, Frame rates, OMF workflow, spotting, heck even "bias".

***HOWEVER****

This is not always true. Case in point. Guy wants to get into audio and knows nothing about it, just knows he likes it. He lives in Iowa. And he should Intern at _________?....... Yes, I know : Go to LA. Ok, so, you play polo, love horses, grew up on a farm, want to keep that lifestyle (as does your serious girlfriend). Do you go to LA or NY and not know ANYBODY or ANYTHING and spend A LOT OF MONEY on an rat-hole of an apartment? Or, do you enroll in a school -- not knowing much of anything about the industry -- and apply yourself. Learn everything you can. Some of the schools programs are getting better. And when a friend and colleague of one of your professors needs interns and comes into your class to introduce himself. Well, that just might lead to a job. In a place that can fit your lifestyle.

Point is, I often need interns who know THE BASICS. All of these grads know how to thread a tape deck -- something i need from time to time. All of these grads can hook up a simple Pro Tools system and controller and speakers without supervision. If i get an interns off the street, I don't have time to babysit them through Audio 101.

I am taking on 3 interns now and we are on a fast moving train. i have ZERO time to babysit. I need people who have SOME skillset.

THAT said, they learn more here in 6 months than they did in 2 YEARS at school.

School can lead to networking opportunities. Or, not. the alternative can lead to no networking opportunities. Or, it can. either way, APPLY YOURSELF!!!! if you don't go to school, learn the basics of signal flow, plugging stuff in, wrapping cables, learn a DAW (probably Pro Tools) inside out.

oh, and THAT said, after I hired a graduate of "one of those schools" I hired a guy who hired me to score his feature. He needed a gig and he had sound designed his feature. It was crude, but full of all sorts of great and creative ideas. He had the right ideas, just needed a little technical help. Also, he LOVES film, loves sound, is VERY smart, KNOWS software. He comes in with a good brain fro editing, he just needs some technical schooling. He sits and edits and pulls out the manual or the PT coursebook when he needs to figure something out. he is also a nice, funny, and very enthusiastic guy.

there are SO MANY ways to do it.

[gizmokata]

hey minister i'm currently enrolled at IPR (institute of production and recording) and was wondering about internships for post production work around the twin cities area. I see your from minneapolis and i was wondering if you know how many places around here specialize in post production and also take in internships. I have no idea where to even start looking for post production studios because everything i find is for music.

[Frank S.]

Full Sail: School of Film, Art, Design, Music & Media Production

Seriously. If you're going to attend a school for this stuff they really are the best. The decision about whether school or internship is best is up to each person individually. I will say that no matter where you go you will only get out of it what you put in. That goes for internships, school, whatever.

[minister]

Originally Posted by gizmokata

hey minister i'm currently enrolled at IPR (institute of production and recording) and was wondering about internships for post production work around the twin cities area. I see your from minneapolis and i was wondering if you know how many places around here specialize in post production and also take in internships. I have no idea where to even start looking for post production studios because everything i find is for music.

I believe one of your courses requires you to research post facilities. Speak to one of the faculty at IPR.

[introvert]

Originally Posted by lonely_john

its strange to me that so many people are in sound for video games yet there is so little info available on it and even smaller amounts of schools dedicated to it.

Don't be misled. There aren't a ton of us running around. We are a severe minority in the gaming industry. As far as minimal info, there are a few problems:

A) We're all busy as hell. Most developers won't budget for a large audio staff, so we end up scrambling to keep on top of things.

2) There are no standards, which is something we're trying to fix, but due to problem three it can be a bit of a moving target

III) We all use different tools, but to complicate it further, we're all implementing our sounds in different engines on different platforms (PS3, 360, Wii, DS, PSP, PC, etc)

I've tried to compile a bit of info, both about sound design and audio for games specifically, on my web site. But there's lots more out there. I'm currently writing a book on the topic, but given my current workload, I'd be surprised to see it out in the world (that's assuming I can get a publisher) before 2010.

Oh, and if you can afford it, take Georgia up on her offer. Having a proper TV/Film post background will make you much more effective in game audio. There really are two types in the games world: those who understand pro audio because they have a background in it, and those who grew up totally in games and don't have any clue about timecode, pullup/down, reference tones, etc are all about. While a lot of that isn't day to day useful in games, having the background in it will put you in a position to make far more intelligent decisions about how you create audio for your games, and the result will benefit from it.

I wish I could make all game audio people go spend 6 - 12 months in a serious audio post shop before they worked on games. The whole medium would sound better for it.

[jacobfarron]

I went to ARTI. Great school. I looked into them all... from SAE (in byron bay australia, new york and nashville) to the CRAS, Los Angeles Recording School, Full Sail, etc. Audio has always been my only interest.

ARTI rocked. The staff is passionate, and I only had 3 kids in my class. And as far as I know I still have the highest GPA the school's ever had. I began multitrack recording when I was 10 in my home studio I put together. Started as an assistant in professional live sound when I was 13. By the time I graduated high school I was mixing concerts in small venues, mid size arenas, county fairs, etc. So I thought I knew a lot going into school... I learned at ARTI I didn't know half of what I thought I did.

After school I've been able to fight my way into some great jobs... many times working multiple full time audio jobs. I was at Transcon studios - 3 room SSL music recording facility -, Atlantic Pro Audio - live sound, installation and design firm, and now Adrenaline Films where I do location sound and audio post. I've been able to travel across the country working on tv shows and video shoots, and even spent a month in China working on Survivor 15. I just finished my first 'making of' mix for a Sony Pictures feature that will be on the DVD and I'm redesigning our mix room here.

I am 100% sure that having gone to ARTI got my resume looked at. I literally had employers make sure I DID NOT go to Full Sail, most Full Sail students have a really bad rep here. Some may graduate fine, others don't really pay attention, get a useless degree, and have no idea whats going on.

Although I know ARTI helped, it certainly didn't get me hired. Prior experience, being humble (very important), and a relentless pursuit of knowledge has kept me working. I've purchased 5 audio ref manuals in the last 6 months. I'm on the DUC and gearslutz all the time. And I stay involved as much as I can in every aspect of sound from acoustic design, electronics repair, install, and live sound, to music recording, location sound, and tv post.

What you should realize is that no audio school can teach you everything. When I graduated I realized the more I learn the less I know. And that's how it's always going to be. One answer always leads to 2 more questions. It's a constant battle to keep up with everything.

Althought I'm young (about to turn 22), my advice is go to school, intern at the same time, and fight your way in. Keep learning everything you can from anyone who'll teach you.

One other thing... my first job out of college taught me precision soldering and multi-core cable termination - and that has literally sealed the deal on my other jobs. I was an intern... stuff broke at the wrong time, and I fixed it, next day I was an assistant and moved up to 2nd engineer. I was loading up with the guys to go on a film shoot... didn't have the right cable, I built it. Next week I was being flown to NY for a shoot.

So, I still have a ridiculous amount to learn and probably decades of work before I get to the same level the other pro's here are at... but ARTI has opened doors. The trick is to go beyond any school and keep learning and practicing. You have to bring your A game to compete.

[bruhens]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

For 19K you could put together a decent PT system. Actually, here in TN, our state schools have music industry programs. I'd always take an intern with a four-year degree over a trade school.

I looked at their site and couldn't figure out who the instructors were and by whom they are accredited.

KK- that information is located here
FAQs

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by bruhens

KK- that information is located here
FAQs

Thanks for the info. I still don't know what the "accreditation" is. That's kind of a loaded word when you're talking about trade schools.

All I'm saying is I don't know anything about them and I've been in the biz for 35 years with a BA from Vanderbilt, several semesters at Berklee, a post grad degree in sw engineering from Northeastern and I've completed coursework at the University of Tennessee for the PhD in experimental psychology. So when I think about how tough it's been for me even with a background in science, math and perceptual research, I tend to think it's going to be rougher on someone who has to be taught stuff like Pro Tools. I mean there's no magic to it. You read the manuals and keep at it.

I just think a liberal arts or engineering (as in EE) background leaves you better prepared with some of the things you'll see in the recording field. When guys send me letters of application to work here and they write how good they are at Pro Tools, I think, "so what? I've been using Digi stuff since PT was Sounddesigner for the Emulator" and that's over 20 years. It's not like I built my studio so I could turn over the thing I like to do most (mix and sound design) to someone who just got out of school. Trade schools seem to teach students that there's lots of work out there (there isn't compared to the people who want work) and that knowing PT is a huge thing (it isn't). Now if you know PT, Final Cut, Photoshop, Motion, After Effects, Sound Track Pro, Nuendo, Encore, DVD Studio Pro, Bitvice, and the best way to compress for Flash and WMV, then you might come in handy at my studio, but learning PT and working on a console is just too limited for the kind of varied media we have to deal with.

This may not be true for big tracking studios, but I've seen several of those go under in the past year, so as more students are being released to work in that kind of environment, fewer large studios exist, primarily because of the popularity of home studios.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

One other thing... my first job out of college taught me precision soldering and multi-core cable termination - and that has literally sealed the deal on my other jobs.

Y'know, that's one of the first questions I ask and if an intern doesn't know how to solder, I bring out the Weller. In early years, I used to build all the cables for my band and studio because I used better materials. They still work today. Knowing how to repair a cable and how to troubleshoot a grounding problem with alligator clips is something they ought to teach at any school. Eventually, even in a fully digital environment, you get to analog, and that means wire plus solder, even if it's only at the voice coil.