SD302 Full Scale Tone

[berniebeaudry]

I have a SD 302 and I'm curious if any other 302 owners use the "advanced gain structure" method to line up the meters with your recording device. I would like to hear about the pros and cons of working this way. I interface with a number of different cameras and the metering is all over the place. Some of the older Beta SP camera/deck meters are particularly tricky. There doesn't seem to much room above zero on the scale yet the meters aren't very responsive till you hit it harder and then its a tightrope between getting strong level and getting close to clipping. If I listen to the return loud enough to hear what I'm doing I sometimes hear clipping on the peaks but I don't know if its distortion from the headphone circuit feeding both channels of the camera at too loud a level or its the tape really distorting. A playback direct from the camera would tell me for sure, but there often isn't time to do that. Any advice about lining up metering with different cameras would be appreciated.

I've also been considering buying an outboard 48volt power supply for my mics (Schoeps CMIT5U, and Peluso CMEC-6). Do you think this would give me better performance from these mics than what I get using the internal 302 power? And if so, what unit would you recommend? Sometimes the mics don't seem to have as much gain as I would like, but perhaps I'm being too conservative on the trim pots. Another reason I would use an outboard supply is the Peluso mic causes the mixer to go into oscillation if I don't use the 160hz high pass filter on the mixer and I increase the gain beyond a certain point. It happens with mics that have extended low frequency response. I can use it this way and it still sounds alot like the Schoeps hypercardiod mic, but would like to be able to use it without the filter if I can.
All in all its a great mixer and I use it and a 442 quite often and want to get the most out of them and deliver the best sound possible. I've been doing field audio for a long time and I've recently become addicted to reading this and some other audio forums and its because I like to learn how to do the job better/easier/faster and throw in some help to someone else if I can. The mixer who I boomed for early on in my career gave me a good start and taught me alot about this business and then implored me to pay it forward. Its good to see the professionals on this forum have the same attitude.
One last question. Do you finance your equipment purchases or do you just get what you need to do the work as it comes in? I'm looking for ways to complete my partial package.
Regards all,
Bernie

[philper]

Originally Posted by berniebeaudry

I have a SD 302 and I'm curious if any other 302 owners use the "advanced gain structure" method to line up the meters with your recording device. I would like to hear about the pros and cons of working this way. I interface with a number of different cameras and the metering is all over the place. Some of the older Beta SP camera/deck meters are particularly tricky. There doesn't seem to much room above zero on the scale yet the meters aren't very responsive till you hit it harder and then its a tightrope between getting strong level and getting close to clipping. If I listen to the return loud enough to hear what I'm doing I sometimes hear clipping on the peaks but I don't know if its distortion from the headphone circuit feeding both channels of the camera at too loud a level or its the tape really distorting. A playback direct from the camera would tell me for sure, but there often isn't time to do that. Any advice about lining up metering with different cameras would be appreciated.

I've also been considering buying an outboard 48volt power supply for my mics (Schoeps CMIT5U, and Peluso CMEC-6). Do you think this would give me better performance from these mics than what I get using the internal 302 power? And if so, what unit would you recommend? Sometimes the mics don't seem to have as much gain as I would like, but perhaps I'm being too conservative on the trim pots. Another reason I would use an outboard supply is the Peluso mic causes the mixer to go into oscillation if I don't use the 160hz high pass filter on the mixer and I increase the gain beyond a certain point. It happens with mics that have extended low frequency response. I can use it this way and it still sounds alot like the Schoeps hypercardiod mic, but would like to be able to use it without the filter if I can.
All in all its a great mixer and I use it and a 442 quite often and want to get the most out of them and deliver the best sound possible. I've been doing field audio for a long time and I've recently become addicted to reading this and some other audio forums and its because I like to learn how to do the job better/easier/faster and throw in some help to someone else if I can. The mixer who I boomed for early on in my career gave me a good start and taught me alot about this business and then implored me to pay it forward. Its good to see the professionals on this forum have the same attitude.
One last question. Do you finance your equipment purchases or do you just get what you need to do the work as it comes in? I'm looking for ways to complete my partial package.
Regards all,
Bernie

I use the 302 all the time, and like you must work w/ many different cameras, great and not so great. Anymore I've set the mixer up so zero on the meter is the full output of the 302. This means that the output of the mixer is not @ +4, it is somewhat lower, like 0 or less. This seems to be a good place for all cameras except Canons, whose gain structure leaves this level too hot for mic livel in and too low for line level. All other cameras can adjust to this level very well, I've found, and not hitting the smaller cams w/ +4 as ref level seems to help w/ headroom. As I'm sure you know, w/ the 302 what you want is to have the trims set as low as you can for a working level and maximise your pot-travel w/ the channel fader so you have finer level control. Experiment an find a good working level for yourself.

I use an external powersupply for my main boom mic, partly out of old habit, and partly so I can easily change pad/low roll off and mic power type (I still have some old T power mics as well as 48 Phantom). I often use a MixPre w/ my 302, and since the MixPre has no trim the pads in the mic PSU help me get the MixPre level control in a place where I have some degree of fine control, ie not working at 7 o'clock on the knob etc.

Re buying gear--as a freelancer it is important to keep and eye on the bottom line and be very smart about what you spend money on. That said, gear that makes your work easier and more enjoyable should always be considered, and if it makes a value-add to you as a sound person then all the more so. It is hard to figure out what piece of gear makes what rental money anymore--rental rates are for packages and rental-house rates rarely pertain. Special pieces are obviously extra, but the bread and butter stuff--that which would be expected on every job, is almost always lumped together in one number. So it's up to you to figure out what the expectations are, and what other sound people in your area are offering for what price. There is a way in which the gear, at least a small package, is the "ante" in this game: you have to "ante-up" to play, to get the day rate. A friend who has a video equipment business tells me that while he makes some money on HD cameras etc, the real moneymakers for him are the "extras", like floor monitors, down-and scan-converters etc.. Go figure. In the post audio business the "hard rental vs. ante up" debate is even more abstract and harder to figure out, I think.

Philip Perkins

[berniebeaudry]

Originally Posted by philper

I use the 302 all the time, and like you must work w/ many different cameras, great and not so great. Anymore I've set the mixer up so zero on the meter is the full output of the 302. This means that the output of the mixer is not @ +4, it is somewhat lower, like 0 or less. This seems to be a good place for all cameras except Canons, whose gain structure leaves this level too hot for mic livel in and too low for line level. All other cameras can adjust to this level very well, I've found, and not hitting the smaller cams w/ +4 as ref level seems to help w/ headroom. As I'm sure you know, w/ the 302 what you want is to have the trims set as low as you can for a working level and maximise your pot-travel w/ the channel fader so you have finer level control. Experiment an find a good working level for yourself.

I use an external powersupply for my main boom mic, partly out of old habit, and partly so I can easily change pad/low roll off and mic power type (I still have some old T power mics as well as 48 Phantom). I often use a MixPre w/ my 302, and since the MixPre has no trim the pads in the mic PSU help me get the MixPre level control in a place where I have some degree of fine control, ie not working at 7 o'clock on the knob etc.

Re buying gear--as a freelancer it is important to keep and eye on the bottom line and be very smart about what you spend money on. That said, gear that makes your work easier and more enjoyable should always be considered, and if it makes a value-add to you as a sound person then all the more so. It is hard to figure out what piece of gear makes what rental money anymore--rental rates are for packages and rental-house rates rarely pertain. Special pieces are obviously extra, but the bread and butter stuff--that which would be expected on every job, is almost always lumped together in one number. So it's up to you to figure out what the expectations are, and what other sound people in your area are offering for what price. There is a way in which the gear, at least a small package, is the "ante" in this game: you have to "ante-up" to play, to get the day rate. A friend who has a video equipment business tells me that while he makes some money on HD cameras etc, the real moneymakers for him are the "extras", like floor monitors, down-and scan-converters etc.. Go figure. In the post audio business the "hard rental vs. ante up" debate is even more abstract and harder to figure out, I think.

Philip Perkins

Are you saying that you use the 0vu/peak=+2dbu meter reference level? Does this work well on the older Beta cam SP decks as well? When I used the default 0vu=0dbu setting to go into the Beta cam I found that I had to set the input level to the camera deck to about two oclock, but if I used the 0vu=+ 4dbu reference the pots on the camera were about noon, and the mixer meters correlated better with those on the camera. The problem is though that the lcd scale on the camera has its zero mark way near the top of the meter range so there isn't much room over zero so its difficult to get a nice hot level that doesn't seem to peak close to clipping. Bring the levels down and then you're way under zero on the camera. Thats why I was thinking that the full scale tone would work to maximize the level quickly. Thanks for your response. It caused me to look deeper into the set up menu. What brand of external 48 volt supply do you use?
Regards,
Bernie

[philper]

Originally Posted by berniebeaudry

Are you saying that you use the 0vu/peak=+2dbu meter reference level? Does this work well on the older Beta cam SP decks as well? When I used the default 0vu=0dbu setting to go into the Beta cam I found that I had to set the input level to the camera deck to about two oclock, but if I used the 0vu=+ 4dbu reference the pots on the camera were about noon, and the mixer meters correlated better with those on the camera. The problem is though that the lcd scale on the camera has its zero mark way near the top of the meter range so there isn't much room over zero so its difficult to get a nice hot level that doesn't seem to peak close to clipping. Bring the levels down and then you're way under zero on the camera. Thats why I was thinking that the full scale tone would work to maximize the level quickly. Thanks for your response. It caused me to look deeper into the set up menu. What brand of external 48 volt supply do you use?
Regards,
Bernie

I've used that level setup method since the 302 has been around--I have one of the first. My mic psu is a PSC "Universal".

Philip Perkins