Is it worth going to a recording school for sound design/post?

[NIKKI NEXO]

I've always had an interest in sound design, foley and post production. I am considering going to a school like Fullsail in Orlando, Florida for a year to learn more about recording and post production. To me, this would be like a hobby that I got paid to do.

Is going to a school like this really worth it and what is the likelyhood that I'll be able to get a job in sound design/post after school?

I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida now and will relocate to Orlando to go to school (if I go). Will I have to relocate again to find a job? If so, where are the most prominent cities for sound design/foley and post?

What type of money can I expect to make right out of school once I do get a job?

Is there anything else that I've left out that might be helpful?

Thanks for any and all help. I am open to any and all suggestions.

NN

[stilts27]

IMHO..No...not saying you won't learn anything..but with a few books..forums and saved money towards your own gear - you will be better off..then moving into an internship somewhere would benefit you more. I started the school route and stopped as soon as I figured that out(took 1 semester)...and I know people who went all the way through with it and are paying these student loans off and warning people like me and you not to do it...and say there is no job placement with those type of schools...its risky...but only you will be able to decide for yourself...good luck...

[brucie]

I would agree! Save your money, buy a few bits of gear (don't go overboard at this stage!), take on a job you can bare to pay the bills and contact local film makers and students. Start on their low/no budget films and learn all the problems you will encounter. This will make the transition to working on high budget productions easier as you have experienced all of the worse case scenarios!!

Of course there a couple of really good books out there and also ask questions in forums.

That way when you do get offered an internship with a major company, you won't have to turn it down because you need to work 20 hours a day to pay off your student loans!

Good luck

Neil

[NIKKI NEXO]

What type of gear should I buy? and what software/recording programs are the best to learn for this type of thing (I'm on an Intel Mac)? Field recording device? I've heard the Edirol R-09 is good for the money. Or is there something better or a better way to go?

What type of studio monitors are good on a budget that represent well? Blue Sky? Event ALP5? Anything else? Do I need a 5.1 surround system? Interface?

Do you have the names of any of the books you were talking about.

Another thing, I'm 38, have a wife and a 9 mth old baby boy at home. I've owned my own business for the last 11 yrs. and have been doing what I do for the last 15-16 yrs. But I'm tired of doing it and want to do something that I enjoy. That is why I'm asking these questions to see if it's worth pursuing or not. I've got bills, medical insurance, blah, blah, blah just like everyone else, and my wife is a stay at home mom.

[hef]

Intern, Intern, Intern. If you wanna be a pro learn how the pros do it- you can't learn how to operate a audio-post facility from home. offer your (intern) services for free if need be at a studio that does the type of work you want to do. i don't think its as important to buy gear for home use unless that is what you want to do- work from home. If you want to work in a studio- then go intern at one. A couple background classes/books would be good, depending on what you already know. And knowing a DAW like Protools would be beneficial. So if you're buying gear, buy Protools LE. Many studios- since they pay interns nothing- will let their interns/assistants work on low budget films at night and weekends on their own time in order to get experience. that's what i did.....

[philper]

Originally Posted by NIKKI NEXO

What type of gear should I buy? and what software/recording programs are the best to learn for this type of thing (I'm on an Intel Mac)? Field recording device? I've heard the Edirol R-09 is good for the money. Or is there something better or a better way to go?

What type of studio monitors are good on a budget that represent well? Blue Sky? Event ALP5? Anything else? Do I need a 5.1 surround system? Interface?

Do you have the names of any of the books you were talking about.

Another thing, I'm 38, have a wife and a 9 mth old baby boy at home. I've owned my own business for the last 11 yrs. and have been doing what I do for the last 15-16 yrs. But I'm tired of doing it and want to do something that I enjoy. That is why I'm asking these questions to see if it's worth pursuing or not. I've got bills, medical insurance, blah, blah, blah just like everyone else, and my wife is a stay at home mom.

In your position I would do as serious and informed and clear-eyed a cost-benefit analysis as I could before signing up at one of those schools. They are expensive, and if it means taking on a lot of new debt then you should consider alternatives. Do you have a college degree already? Are you hoping that a degree from a recording school will get you a job in the music or film industry? I think a truth about those programs is that they seem set up for young people who can take the skills they learn there and then do the years of interning and pavement pounding it takes to get work, unless you have connections already. Those recording schools are not trade schools in the sense that getting a certificate or etc will put you in a cue of people for an IT job at a big company. This industry is MUCH smaller, and MUCH more setup for the use of project hires and freelancers. Can you afford to be without significant income for several years? Are you willing to work at another job part-time while doing time as a gofer, intern, etc for no money? You said you had your own business for a long time--are you willing to use the skills you acquired doing that to setup an audio business of your own? Because the truth about the audio post business is that there are very few staff positions, and in most locales the actual audio work is done by the owners of the facility themselves. It is only in LA, NY, London, etc where you might find large numbers of audio facilities run by staffers. Are you willing to relocate? I know these are tough questions, and probably you've already considered them. I very much sympathize with your current position and responsibilities--they do make making a change much tougher. However, you can also figure that you are somewhat tougher minded and much more focussed than a younger, less burdened person and that will show in your work. Good luck.

Philip Perkins CAS

[hef]

Originally Posted by NIKKI NEXO

Another thing, I'm 38, have a wife and a 9 mth old baby boy at home. I've owned my own business for the last 11 yrs. and have been doing what I do for the last 15-16 yrs. But I'm tired of doing it and want to do something that I enjoy. That is why I'm asking these questions to see if it's worth pursuing or not. I've got bills, medical insurance, blah, blah, blah just like everyone else, and my wife is a stay at home mom.

if this means you need to make money right away, then it may not be the right industry for you. sorry- i only saw your first post. don't mean to be discouraging but there are plenty of young guys who just spent 10's of thousands of dollars on schools like Fullsale and some that didn't who are willing to work for little or no money for a couple years out of school to get in the door at a studio. seeing that you're in Fort Lauderdale, doesn't Miami have some opportunities. maybe with you're business background you can apply that to other jobs in audio-post- ie. studio manager

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by hef

Intern, Intern, Intern. If you wanna be a pro learn how the pros do it- you can't learn how to operate a audio-post facility from home. .......

I agree with this very strongly. Not to say that some schooling would be a bad idea either, though I don't know that I'd recommend doing a full program. But to start out by buying some equipment I think would be a mistake, you'll just waste a lot of time making the same mistakes that lots of other folks have made, rather than going to work at a place that has folks that already know what they're doing, that you can learn from.

[introvert]

I'm a Full Sail grad. I would recommend against it, especially considering your current position. The school is expensive, and while I did learn some things there, the three month internship I did at a post studio afterward was FAR more educational. And the FS degree didn't help me get in. If anything, it made things more difficult, as they were concerned I would be inexperienced but cocky.

FS' placement dept (now called Career Development) probably won't get you a job. I've never received a useful job lead from them. Not one.

Also, I can't speak to the overall success rate of the school, but I can speak about my graduating class. I haven't kept in touch with everyone, but of the people I have kept track of, I know of four (myself included) that are working in a paid audio environment. I'm doing sound for games, one of the guys is the head audio guy at a mega church in Florida, one runs a small music studio in Georgia and one is doing surprisingly well in the rap scene (although I think that's more to do with his talent as a rapper than with anything Full Sail taught him).

All that said, here's my two cents and some pocket lint:

Before you do ANYTHING, realize that this is a very difficult path to travel, both financially and emotionally. An internship will likely be unpaid, and will eat up a lot of your free time to spend with the kids and take care of other things.

If you do move forward, get a Pro Tools LE rig, but don't break the bank. Get an Mbox 2 or something. The important bit is to learn Pro Tools. As much as I've railed against it in other threads, it IS the industry standard, and it is well worth knowing. I don't even use the thing, but I keep a current version around to keep my chops up in case I ever find myself in a gig where I do have to use it.

There are some good books on the subject. "Pro Tools For Video, Film and Multimedia" is a good one. "Practical Art Of Motion Picture Sound" is another. And sites like this can be an invaluable resource at times.

Best of luck!

[matt82aust]

I think some form of education (or more importantly, knowledge) is required before entering the studio as an intern. It's true that 99% of what you will learn will be working in actual situations with real jobs, however, if someone doesn't have a basic knowledge or Pro Tools, recording / processing basics, and workflow and technology of Post Production, i don't know how long they would last.

I'm not saying you need to do a 5 year masters in Audio Engineering! or even a fullsail course, but i don't think you can just walk into a studio with a good attitude and a desire to learn... even as other people mentioned you learn it yourself. These forums are great resources as well to learn about workflows and such

Best of luck, don't be discouraged!

[georgia]

1. Keep your day job. ( or get one ) this is gonna cost you.
2. buy a lot of books on post.
3. buy a digi 002 or similar system and start playing.
4. take some basic courses or find a friend who know protools and learn about the tool.
5. find a post studio in your area that you can intern at nights and weekends.
6. find a couple small indie no budget gigs you can do that require little or no knowledge so you can start practice.
7. IF, after all this you are really still wanting to get into post.....

1. get a real internship and plan on going broke for a while.

After about a year at this you can start doing some indie work on more no and low budget work and start working your chops up....

after that ... well here's hoping for you. It's really tough to break into this wonderful fun filled exciting glamorus business of post. (i'm being facetious )


cheers
geo

[Frank S.]

I am also a Full Sail grad and I can honestly say nothing but great things about every aspect of the school. Before going to Full Sail I had gone to Middle Tennessee State University which also has a recording program. MTSU sucked, Full Sail was awesome.

I had quite a few years of experience in live sound and music recording before going and still learned a lot. It also got me interested in post. I had 6 job interviews line up prior to graduation and started working in a paid position 3 days after graduation. No matter what school you go to though, you will only get out of it what you put in. I had guys in my class that have done nothing in audio, but they didn't try to learn everything they could have.

I am still in contact with a number of instructors and people in the career placement department and they are extremely helpful for me. When I have had interest in changing jobs they have provided me with several possibilites and were always professional.

Schools like F.S. are indeed expensive, but working as an unpaid intern for 6-12 months is also expensive. Like Georgia said...plan on going broke for a while. No matter how you go about it, if you don't love the industry and working in audio, don't waste your time. You will be miserable.

[hef]

although I've advocated for interning as oppose to school. Ultimately both are best IF you can afford it. As somebody whose interviewed and helped hire interns- we've had success with Full Sail grads for the most part. You know since they spent so much time and money on school that they are probably serious about it. and you know they have a good background (in audio,PT,etc) to get started. I know one kid whose been out of school for about 3 years and he is mixing shows for Bravo and TLC. At the same time I know plenty who didn't do any school or who have degrees in other fields that went the intern route and are doing just fine.

i think for someone who's choosing between college or Full Sail- then Full Sail makes sense. Basically it makes sense if you can afford it.

[EarCandy]

Move to where the industry is if you don't live there already. Find someone you admire or someplace (post house) that's doing what you want to be doing. Get your sh_t together and go to them and tell them you want to learn and you'll work for free if you have to. Be enthusiastic, smart, personable and energetic. Immerse yourself as best you can in the life/career you want to persue and soak up everything you can. Learning from the pros that are working in the trenches of the industry you want to be a part of is THE BEST WAY to learn how to survive in that industry. WAAAAAY better that ANY school can teach you IMHO.

Good luck to you...

[introvert]

See, Frank and I both had very different experiences after we graduated. It's strange.

The only potential explanation I have for our differences in experience with career development is that I haven't contacted them since I've been doing serious work. When I was there, I was busting my ass, and I was definitely one of their favorite students. But when it came time to graduate, I only had one job lead to a post facility in the LA area... the offer was an unpaid internship, about 40 hours a week, lots of driving/running (but they insisted that I must pay for my own fuel on these runs), and they said I "might" get a little time in some of the rooms, but not to count on it.

I turned it down, worked some connections from when I played in bands and ended up at GTN in Detroit where, in about ten months, I was turned into an audio ninja.

I asked for leads when I left GTN and came up empty handed. I asked for leads when I left my next assistant job and was left empty handed. I stopped asking, finally broke into games on my own, and I haven't asked since. Maybe they would have more for me now that I have some real experience behind me. I don't know.

I didn't mean to paint the entire school in a negative light though. I learned a lot while there, probably more than most students (because I put in extra hours, talked instructors into giving me more lab time slots, etc), and it definitely gave me a foundation to build from.

But yeah... 3 months as an intern and 7 months as an assistant at GTN took me from enthusiast to pro. Now it's all about experience so I can move from pro to "grizzled ancient."

[santacore]

check out this thread from a little while back:

Good school to study post production