"Need Complete Post, no pay just credit...but the movie is good" WTF!

[gsilbers]

check this type of posts from craigslist and mandy.com which is similar to some calls we have recived

"We need someone for post sound work. We are currently raising money for this job. We have $100 now and one of the other producers has promised money towards it. It is a feature length comedy starring Academy Award winner Margaret O'Brien, Joshua Leonard and Tony Todd."

so award winning actors but 100 bucks for audio post!


not to mention music for movies. stuff like " we need a composer to score a heroic film ala john williams, no pay but credit will be given. "

or "we need your song, something that sounds like aretha franklin, or incubus, or big band music for $20 for each song. "

bitch! my cables for the studio cost that! wTF....

the worst is that the post always say.. plase submit demo work and show experiece..

uh... well i just got a mac with garbageband on it and i used the loops for my skateboard video

i guess this belong in the moan zone... oh well its in post land.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

check this type of posts from craigslist and mandy.com which is similar to some calls we have recived

"We need someone for post sound work. We are currently raising money for this job. We have $100 now and one of the other producers has promised money towards it. It is a feature length comedy starring Academy Award winner Margaret O'Brien, Joshua Leonard and Tony Todd."

so award winning actors but 100 bucks for audio post!


not to mention music for movies. stuff like " we need a composer to score a heroic film ala john williams, no pay but credit will be given. "

or "we need your song, something that sounds like aretha franklin, or incubus, or big band music for $20 for each song. "

bitch! my cables for the studio cost that! wTF....

the worst is that the post always say.. plase submit demo work and show experiece..

uh... well i just got a mac with garbageband on it and i used the loops for my skateboard video

i guess this belong in the moan zone... oh well its in post land.

It's equally stupid for video editors and videographers...people want an event with two-camera coverage, editing and DVD for $100 and silly offers like that. These are the people that don't get answers. Also, on the Nashville list, stupid people often get flamed with "you've got to be joking" public replies.

[smsjr]

Yes, this is a growing trend, and let me just say that it's not only budget deprived film students that are doing this. Legitimate producers are doing it as well.

We've all probably worked on projects for little or no money and sometimes you don't mind doing it when you know the people involved are incredibly passionate but just have no money. But I see a lot more of these calls for free crew/ post production and I'm wondering if people just count on the fact that someone out there will do it for free, so why kill yourself trying to raise the money. And a lot of times the producers don't follow through on promises, such as we'll send you a DVD when its done. Many people have never received those DVDs. It's a shame. If you're going to have people work for free, at least send them a DVD.

Steve

[scking]

Well, the unfortuante fact is that someone will reply to it. The audio and music fields are so crowded that someone will think it's a good way to make a name for themselves.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Originally Posted by scking

Well, the unfortuante fact is that someone will reply to it. The audio and music fields are so crowded that someone will think it's a good way to make a name for themselves.

Perhaps you may remember that famous and very loooong money thread here, where Georgia wisely explained what doing free job could mean; that it is like putting your own money into producers' pockets...
Indeed I've seen such an offer many times, and I always tell, that it is not the sound department, which could take the business risk of making a movie. It is producers' task, not mine. You state that the movie is so good, that it will bring a lot of money - take the bank credit and pay the rate from this, after the movie is successfull you will able to pay those money back...
From my experience, if you take such a job and you really do your best it means nothing; it does not mean, that if even the same producer have a real budget, they will come back to you... ok, if you take the Oscar from such a free job, they'll come back...
regards
Kuba

[soundboy]

No, if the movie is a success, and the producer/director gets a nice deal for another movie, they will take it to a large facility. Because they will have out grown someone who is doing projects for free.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by soundboy

No, if the movie is a success, and the producer/director gets a nice deal for another movie, they will take it to a large facility. Because they will have out grown someone who is doing projects for free.

You are exactly right.

[santacore]

This is an everyday occurrance here in Los Angeles. In fact here's a good one from todays listing:

ADR needed for a short film that is complete

there are a few scenes where the sound is hard to hear and we want to re record some stuff.

We have a cut of the movie which is 16 minutes and we dont need much re recording most likely about

3-5 minutes of footage.

We can only pay 30 dollars for the job so if anyone is interested email back as soon as possible at

It's unbelievable how little value they put on other peoples work. In the end of course, as Charles mentioned, they will always go to a better post house when they get some money. I've seen it time and time again. Sad but true. I guess the idea of a runner and a espresso machine are too much to resist.

[introvert]

This happens in games too. The sad part is that it's not just tiny dev studios, some middle-sized ones do it as well. And if they can't find someone who will do it for free/cheap, they will buy a copy of Sound Forge, get a Sound Dogs account, and have an intern "create" all of the sounds for the game by pulling directly from the libraries (yes, I know of a game where this happened).

I don't do unsolicited free work. I will do freebie stuff as a favor to a friend, and on occasion I've reached out and offered to be a part of a small project that I really wanted to have some involvement in. But if someone comes to me asking for me to provide audio, I expect payment of some sort. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Henchman]

The only low or no pay jobs I do now are for people who I've done paying gigs for. Or for people who are referred by other pro's.
But only shrts. I will not commit to any longform work for free.

I have responded to some of those ads telling them to hang an ad at an audio school, as That's the only kind of people they'll find to work on their project. As no one with any significant experience is going to work for no or hardly any money. No matter how big the sob story.

[gravityminor]

i think it's always kinda been like that. really crappy but cream rises to the top.

i'll do "free" jobs every now and again, like mark was saying, for existing clients. PSAs for agencies... etc. my advice is to not work for free. now, working as a composer, if you wanna do 1 or 2 cues/tracks on spec to see if things are mutually "rocking", that's a different story. done that more than a few times and it's always paid off.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by santacore

TIt's unbelievable how little value they put on other peoples work. In the end of course, as Charles mentioned, they will always go to a better post house when they get some money. I've seen it time and time again. Sad but true. I guess the idea of a runner and a espresso machine are too much to resist.

God, I love espresso!

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Have you ever tried to understand why this is so...?
The answer is: the software daws are relatice cheap now, so many people bought them, perhaps learnt basic things through the couple of weeks and said to themselves: hey, I can do the post!
So they come to different places, production houses and other facilities offering their "work" for free or a few dollars... I can't believe, that not-sound related people still think, that to know how to operate the program means to prepare a good sounding soundtrack... but we all know, that's not true...
What is more, the software providers shout in their ads: making movies has never been so easy...
And producers after watching such an ad asking themselves, why this or that service is so expensive? it is so easy to clean the dialog, you just press the button and you are done, just like we've seen in an ad...
Have a nice day
Kuba

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Originally Posted by soundboy

No, if the movie is a success, and the producer/director gets a nice deal for another movie, they will take it to a large facility.

I meant, if no-pay sound editor receive the Oscar for that sound edit they may come back...
... but what kind of rate such a no-pay but Oscar awarded sound editor should take?

[santacore]

What is more, the software providers shout in their ads: making movies has never been so easy...

That's for sure. Wasn't it Adobe that was pumping their auto mix software a while back? No engineer needed or some crap like that. Those ads made me sick.

[Jay-]

I had a similar experience on Craig's list.

A woman who was very wealthy from articles in toilet magazines like "people" and other woman targeted magazines..

Any way she said she wanted an editor for her nature kids show so I respond.
She said its picked up by the discovery channel but she turned them down and was going to make a "pay site" on the Internet. OK, great.. The Internet! Who could refuse working for the Internet!!!

So we start talking and she wanted Final cut editing, I'm OK we have that but if you want an editor what does it matter we can just trans code into FCP.

Then the time we talk how she is going to pay and she said she would call me in a month when she gets to my area OK, sure fine.

This woman was a FLAKE of FLAKES it turns out she was fishing for a sucker and when we provided actual movie credits, told her we have both FCP, AVID, Nuendo, Pro tools and Logic audio plus 50 gig collections of professional Foley.

My co editor shaped her up a bit when she suggested we "Team up If I like you"


A month later I responded to another advert where a video editor was looking for a post audio guy for a "Win win situation" where I was expected to work on a nature video for free in exchange for credits but it would be on the "INTERNET" Sho could refuse working for free for the almighty internet?. Naturally I responded because I was dying to know, yes... she hired and paid a guy with no experience for next to nothing and he was looking for someone to do the work for free that he failed to do.

I ran like hell from those crazy people.

dfegad

[Henchman]

There's a good one on craigslist LA. Full post for a feature length.5 days to finish it. $500.

What an insult.

[smsjr]

There's a good one on craigslist LA. Full post for a feature length.5 days to finish it. $500.

What an insult.

They must have left off the per hour after $500, or even per day.

Steve

[Lorddiagram]

Originally Posted by soundboy

No, if the movie is a success, and the producer/director gets a nice deal for another movie, they will take it to a large facility. Because they will have out grown someone who is doing projects for free.

I second that - dead on - happened to me many times.

[soundboy]

[QUOTE=santacore;1511044]This is an everyday occurrance here in Los Angeles. In fact here's a good one from todays listing:



they will always go to a better post house when they get some money.

Not better...bigger and more expensive.

[soundboy]

"they will always go to a better post house when they get some money."

Not better...bigger and more expensive.

[Jay-]

Plus if you work for reduced or free they subconsciously resent you.
This is true in Latin America where I am, the attitude is if I can get this much out of you... they might try to drain your blood and pretty much take you for a fool.

It sets you up for being abused coming and going...

Iv had people make reduced deals for credits in the project only to edit out my credits and put theirs. So money is your only reward.

I forgot to mention, a friend of mine volunteered for the Berkley film archive and eventually found enough people that liked him to start his own production company co edit major motion pictures as well as be an extra in Apocalypse now, have dinner at Francis house (more then once) and do quite well for his time donation.

But he was the guy that attracted famous and wealthy people where ever we went. (he even knows OJ! who was a long time supporter of the archive.)

dfegad

[imgoinmad]

Originally Posted by Kuba_Pietrzak

Perhaps you may remember that famous and very loooong money thread here, where Georgia wisely explained what doing free job could mean; that it is like putting your own money into producers' pockets...

I started that money thread and yes it got long but was very enlightening. Things have worked out well since then...we'd done a few 48 hour film projects and 1 job where we get paid if they get a distribution deal to get some type of experience (for our demo reel). We did a 2nd job for free (because we loved the film and felt it was a wise move). Now thanks to that thread we know how to speak to people in terms that they can understand. They understand we know what we're talking about, and they understand what we can bring to the table. At this point, our demo reel is looking good and it's all business from here on out. We'll be launching our new site soon Productionhousemedia.com

There's too many hours involved in making a project good to do it for free, we can't afford to do it and they can't afford not to pay if they want their film to perform well.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by santacore

This is an everyday occurrance here in Los Angeles. In fact here's a good one from todays listing:



It's unbelievable how little value they put on other peoples work. In the end of course, as Charles mentioned, they will always go to a better post house when they get some money. I've seen it time and time again. Sad but true. I guess the idea of a runner and a espresso machine are too much to resist.

at $30 for the project, it would be less insulting to offer no payment at all. alas, it seems there's no shortage of people wanting to have their boots licked...

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by Henchman

There's a good one on craigslist LA. Full post for a feature length.5 days to finish it. $500.

What an insult.

finally, a project that i can post using only my home-recorded fart-sound collection! in 4 bit!

[hociman]

ProVideo Coalition.com: Inside Track by Jay Rose | Founder | Audio

[kk@jamsync.com]

HA! I loved the one for "Copy/Credit/Food".

[santacore]

That's hilarious, thanks for sharing Jonathan.

[starcrash13]

Originally Posted by hociman

ProVideo Coalition.com: Inside Track by Jay Rose | Founder | Audio

Ha! DP = Double Penetration. Your Efforts, and your wallet

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

It's equally stupid for video editors and videographers...people want an event with two-camera coverage, editing and DVD for $100 and silly offers like that. These are the people that don't get answers. Also, on the Nashville list, stupid people often get flamed with "you've got to be joking" public replies.

Yea I've seen stuff like this a lot on craigslist it really pisses me off. "We need you to have your own lighting, must have HD video camera must be willing to work all day. We would be willing to pay up to 400 depending on your experience" Etc, etc I really hope no one replies to these morons.