How hot do you mix commercials for radio/cinema/TV

[I_W_O]

Let's say - 30 second long stereo commercial with modern music as a background and some voiceovers. (rather consistent levelwise, not a lot of dynamics in a program material)

How hot (in RMS) would you mix/master it for:
1. TV
2. Cinema
3. FM Radio

ps. remember it is a commercial !! - so think loud

thanks

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

I'll answer this question, if you sign your post with real name.

Regards
Kuba

[santacore]

-10

[I_W_O]

Originally Posted by Kuba_Pietrzak

I'll answer this question, if you sign your post with real name.

Regards
Kuba

That is my real name.

[Frank S.]

You should mix/master them to the levels that the deliverable specs from the client require.

[Brent Hahn]

I do radio.

Unlike TV, in radio there are no rules. No peak level this, no average dialog level that... it's the wild west. As long as you've bought the airtime, you can phone in the spot and they'll run it.

That said, I mix as hot as I can with as little dynamic range as the content of the spot will aesthetically tolerate.

[I_W_O]

Originally Posted by Frank S.

You should mix/master them to the levels that the deliverable specs from the client require.

Usually the client doesn't have any idea about the specs. He just wants it at least as loud and clear as commercials aired before and past his.
I'm pretty comfortable doing radio commercials, cause with trial n error I've learned how loud and emphasized they should be to not to dissapear when aired on FM. ( but I still try not to squash them more than necessary )

But once, my commercial for cinema use, got returned from video production house with request to back the levels a bit and leave more dynamics, cause it will sound much better in theater then.

Thing is that I haven't listened to it in theater so I have no idea, how did it compare to other commercials - hence my question about levels used in industry nowadays.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

The only way to do a good theater mix is to go to a proper, dolby-licenced dubbing stage and mix the whole thing there. Theater speakers are so specific, that you cannot reproduce that kind of sound on near fields in a small room.
For theater the limitation is 82 dBLeq(m). If the spot is louder, the lab will reject the mix.
regards
Kuba

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by I_W_O

But once, my commercial for cinema use, got returned from video production house with request to back the levels a bit and leave more dynamics, cause it will sound much better in theater then.

Also keep in mind that in order to get the Dolby license for a theatrical release it will have to be mastered at a Dolby certified mastering studio. Before even considering the mastering that studio will ask for seperate dialog, fx and music stems, as that is prescribed by Dolby.

Offcourse the main reason for this, is that a cinema commercial is a whole other deal than a tv/radio commercial as far as dynamics goes.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Kuba_Pietrzak

I'll answer this question, if you sign your post with real name.

Regards
Kuba

What's that have to do with anything? tutt

Regards,
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

What's that have to do with anything? tutt

Regards,
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Punk,
Two reasons. The first is Kuba happens to live in Poland where "I_W_O"
lives and he probably would like to talk with him, and two, if one wants to
have an opinion and put it in print, it's not asking too much to have the
person sign his name. I see by your many postings that you always have an
opinion, but never will you sign your name.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

Punk,
Two reasons. The first is Kuba happens to live in Poland where "I_W_O"
lives and he probably would like to talk with him, and two, if one wants to
have an opinion and put it in print, it's not asking too much to have the
person sign his name. I see by your many postings that you always have an
opinion, but never will you sign your name.

If you want to speak to someone on a forum more in depth or wish to ask for information they have not made public you can use the PM function-that's what it is there for. To demand that someone must reveal their personal information in an open forum just to get details on broadcast specs is absolutely rediculous.

As for my identity, I prefer to exchange personal information through PM's and have done so with many of the great friends and contacts I have made through Gearslutz.

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

If you want to speak to someone on a forum more in depth or wish to ask for information they have not made public you can use the PM function-that's what it is there for. To demand that someone must reveal their personal information in an open forum just to get details on broadcast specs is absolutely rediculous.

As for my identity, I prefer to exchange personal information through PM's and have done so with many of the great friends and contacts I have made through Gearslutz.

Jazz,
Now the only problem is this:

I_W_O has no contact information.

Hence ONE of the reasons that Kuba posted his question about his identity!

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by dr.sound

Jazz,
Now the only problem is this:

I_W_O has no contact information.

Hence ONE of the reasons that Kuba posted his question about his identity!

He can be reached through private messaging as we all can.

It's really no big deal. I just don't think someone has to post their identity to ask a personally reasonable question in a public forum. Obviously Jules felt the same way or he would've made the public listing of one's personal information a mandatory prerequisite to joining GS.

If I misunderstood Kuba's intentions, I apoligize.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Dear All,
I am going to write a few words which are definitely off-topic, but from my point of view are important in such places like this, so I apologize for this right at the begining.
1. When I saw IWO's question I PMed him, if he could identify himself, even off-line; perhaps we know each other, so it would be nice to have some chat...
2. Believe me, annonimity problem is very important in most pro-oriented forums and I and many others (including Marti for example) often ask to sign post with full names. Indeed, it does not matter, when people discuss some "safe" things, but when emotions come, it might be not so easy to pull down the horse, when one think is safe, because only nickname is used instead of real name. Last week such situation occured in DUC, where one poster wrote very very bad words to the long time and very helpful other poster, the very sad discussion went on, finally I've mailed the administrator to close and delete the topic, which actually happened. I am sure, that if such an "opinion-maker" had to sign the post with real name, she/he would think twice before laying down such words.
3. I like to know, who I share my knowledge with, especially, if perhaps I live next to him.
Thank you for the attention, and sorry for being off-topic
All best
Kuba

[Jazzpunk]

Thanks for chiming in on this Kuba. Didn't mean to jump on ya' and sorry to hear about your experience over at the DUC.

Though I disagree with it being mandatory that one lose one's right to anonymity simply to request technical information on a public forum, I certainly respect your opinion on the matter.

[Kyle S]

for what is worth, i immediatly change channels or turn off the TV as soon as a loud commercial comes on. like the blasting HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE **** that, not buying your crap ever cause you busted my eardrums.

[Kuba_Pietrzak]

Kyle,
I know, I know. Mixing commercials and even movie trailers for Tv is pretty often done against the art of mixing. But there is really important reason it is done that way: perceived loudness is one of the most important factors from which clients judge mixer's work. If the trailer/spot is loud on the air, the mixer is good, if it is not, the mixer did the job in wrong way and the job probably needs to be remixed. Note, that such spots go one after another so they are compareable all the time. What is more the spot soundtrack's content does not matter - if it is VO only it have to be loud; if it is an aircraft passing by, it needs to be loud;
Remember, this is a service - client wants you to put your best in the work, but wants you to do the mix in their way, because it is them who pays for the job...
regards,
Kuba