5.1 setup for music - am I missing anything?

[reid]

I'm writing music for a TV series that originally contracted me to provide stereo mixes. Production company has just phoned to say all cues must now be stereo and 5.1 formats. Hooray

So, I've got the weekend to put together a rig that's going to get the job done - if I'm missing out anything obvious or going down a blind alley with a gear choice, I'd be truly grateful for some pointers. I'm running Logic for writing, and intend to mix using it. So I thought I'd do something like this:

Logic feeding 16 outs of DA into -

Toft ATB 16 channel mixer. Use the 8 bus outs on the Toft to monitor in 5.1 using -

5 x Fostex PM 0.5 and a Fostex PM 0.5 sub

Bounce internally in Logic to get the wavs to send to the dub house.

All seems a bit too easy, making me think I must have missed something crucial out - I thought bass management might be an issue, but a colleague assured me it's not my responsibility should be taken care of at the final mix. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[jeronimo]

I'm curious about that too...

[originalscottyg]

Hi,
You might want to think about having a plug or app to check folddown and matrix encoding compatibility. While it is true that the dubstage will be responsible for the final mix compatibility and any matrix encoding, it might not be a bad idea to make sure that there are no issues in your music mixes that will cause steering artifacts or other problems in future folddowns or matrix encoding. Any 5.1 mix for TV will inevitably be delivered as an LtRt as well as a 5.1 mix. There are several plugins/apps that can do this. SRS Circle Surround, Minnetonka Surcode for ProLogicII. Also Dolby Surround Tools. But Dolby doesn't offer ProLogic II, just the original ProLogic, requiring you to fold your mix down to LCRS before previewing the encode/decode process. The Waves 360 bundle offers a handy folddown tool to preview your 5.1 mixes in Stereo or Mono, but this bundle is a bit pricey if you won't be doing 5.1 very often.

Do the deliverables specify a 5.1 accompanied by an LtRt, or just a discrete 5.1 mix?

Hope this helps.
Scott Gatteño

[philper]

Originally Posted by reid

I'm writing music for a TV series that originally contracted me to provide stereo mixes. Production company has just phoned to say all cues must now be stereo and 5.1 formats. Hooray

So, I've got the weekend to put together a rig that's going to get the job done - if I'm missing out anything obvious or going down a blind alley with a gear choice, I'd be truly grateful for some pointers. I'm running Logic for writing, and intend to mix using it. So I thought I'd do something like this:

Logic feeding 16 outs of DA into -

Toft ATB 16 channel mixer. Use the 8 bus outs on the Toft to monitor in 5.1 using -

5 x Fostex PM 0.5 and a Fostex PM 0.5 sub

Bounce internally in Logic to get the wavs to send to the dub house.

All seems a bit too easy, making me think I must have missed something crucial out - I thought bass management might be an issue, but a colleague assured me it's not my responsibility should be taken care of at the final mix. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

When they say they want 5.1, do they mean 5.1 discrete (ie 6 channels) or an LtRt? Do they specify levels and track ordering? If your files are going to be mixed into a larger project it would be a good idea to find out by who and contact them for delivery info.

Philip Perkins

[Henchman]

About 99% of the TV shows I've mixed have been using Stereo music cues.

This seems to em to be an example of the production company not knowing what thye're talking about. They've read the specs that nead to be delivered, and now suddenly they need 5.1

The mixer can easily create the .1 sub, and simply add a bit of verb that goes to the surrounds in the mix.
Done.

Also, if the original contract was for Stereo, then make them aware that delivering 5.1 cues will cost more, as it is more work.
Even though you can buy a plug-in that will create a 5.1 of your stereo cues. But they don't have to know that.

So, I would contact whoever is mixing the series, and talk to them, before spending any money at all.

[reid]

Wow - this one came back from the dead.

There's some good points being made here - I'm going to get on the phone tomorrow and find out the nature of the mixes (discrete / LtRt) they require. The whole project has been delayed by a month, so the rush to buy gear has disappeared.

Henchman, you're right - in the last year I've done three different series where 'surround music mix' was specified. A quick blether with the dub house and everyone's always quickly agreed that it's better to keep things simple and pain free: I supply stereo mixes and they'll 'surroundify' them. For some reason though, on this one the client is being very particular - to the point of approving the music surround mix before it goes to dub.

The lazy fat ass in me thinks ' Oh Christ, more hassle...' The gearslut in me - obviously - thinks 'Mmmmm - new toys!'. So I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for the replies everyone - it's great being able to tap into people's expertise! thumbsup

[maria]

Originally Posted by originalscottyg

Hi,
You might want to think about having a plug or app to check folddown and matrix encoding compatibility. While it is true that the dubstage will be responsible for the final mix compatibility and any matrix encoding, it might not be a bad idea to make sure that there are no issues in your music mixes that will cause steering artifacts or other problems in future folddowns or matrix encoding. Any 5.1 mix for TV will inevitably be delivered as an LtRt as well as a 5.1 mix. There are several plugins/apps that can do this. SRS Circle Surround, Minnetonka Surcode for ProLogicII. Also Dolby Surround Tools. But Dolby doesn't offer ProLogic II, just the original ProLogic, requiring you to fold your mix down to LCRS before previewing the encode/decode process. The Waves 360 bundle offers a handy folddown tool to preview your 5.1 mixes in Stereo or Mono, but this bundle is a bit pricey if you won't be doing 5.1 very often.

Do the deliverables specify a 5.1 accompanied by an LtRt, or just a discrete 5.1 mix?

Hope this helps.
Scott Gatteño

Logic 8 can now do that

[originalscottyg]

Originally Posted by maria

Logic 8 can now do that

I haven't gotten too far into exploring Logic 8 as I have just gotten it.
There is built in downmixing, but is there built in matrix encoding? And if so, what format? ProLogic? ProLogic II?
My main point for Reid was that his music mixes should be checked through a matrix encode/decode path to check for steering artifacts and other issues that may not be noticeable in a discrete 5.1 mix, but may become problematic later on when his music (as part of a larger mix)
is matrix encoded. For instance, artificial stereo-ization/widening (usually done with phasing and delays) can cause problems when matrix encoding.
Also, are the parameters of Logic 8's downmixing adjustable (i.e. center level, surround level, LFE level)?

scottyG