Work outside of the big 2?

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by santacore

Basically I'm wondering how much audio post work really goes on outside of southern California and N.Y.. Specifically I'm talking about film and TV work. I've been thinking about this a lot lately because frankly I'm getting sick of living in Los Angeles and have considered relocating. I have 2 small kids and don't want them growing up around this madness. The problem is I love what I do and have worked too hard to get where I am to give it up. Does anyone have suggestions about other options? I have friends in Dallas and they feel that business is great there but I'm not sure that I would be happy living there. What else is there for an experienced reality TV mixer, Foley mixer, ADR mixer, and sound designer? Anybody out there need a good employee?

On a side note, both of the studios I freelance at are looking for another mixer. If you're around Culver City or Hollywood and have experience with dialog recording, editing, and TV mixing give me a shout, I might be able to hook you up. No noobies please, just experienced reliable people. Shoot me an e-mail to talk more. santacore@gmail.com

Thanks,

John

editing is easy, if the show is a union signatore, you can work electronically w/o too much trouble- but they it governed by your relationship with the Sound supervisor

these are not reality TV places, but they ar outside of NY or LA-
Skywalker Sound still does some work... they are in San Francisco.
Also Robert Rodriguez has his operations in Austin Texas-
Nashville has a video and film community as does Chicago.
For reality stuff, Chicago might be worth looking at. But most major media markets will have places doing audio post.

And of course there is Vancouver and Toronto.


What the biggest problem with moving is, is that if you are Union member- you will need to come back to LA periodically to get your minimum hours, you could lose your pension and health plan.

Other mixers do this, but they end up away from their families for a few months at a time.

charles maynes

[santacore]

Charles, thank you so much for the response, and much respect to your work. I'm not a union member so that isn't an issue at this point.

I actually want to get back into the feature world and possibly explore the interacitve world further. Reality TV mixing is fine, but it's hardly a creative outlet. Ideally I would like to continue Foley recording and doing sound design. The problem is there are not that many active Foley stages outside of Los Angeles. Lucas Sound has always been a dream but I can't imagine getting into there without have a recommendation from a friend. Good ideas overall though, I'll further look into your suggestions. If anyone else has any leads or ideas please give me a shout.

Thanks!!

[hef]

there are audio-post places all over the country. ones that even do major films: ie. http://www.screengemsstudios.com/

maybe its just a matter of finding them, contacting them, landing a job, and moving if its good for you. easier said than done. i have a feeling i'll find myself in a similar situation one day. wanting to get out of NYC. however , if you can deal with the commute- there are some nice places to live in the suburbs of NYC and raise a family.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by hef

there are audio-post places all over the country. ones that even do major films: ie. http://www.screengemsstudios.com/

maybe its just a matter of finding them, contacting them, landing a job, and moving if its good for you. easier said than done. i have a feeling i'll find myself in a similar situation one day. wanting to get out of NYC. however , if you can deal with the commute- there are some nice places to live in the suburbs of NYC and raise a family.

If you will note, ScreenGems has no post production facilities.

charles maynes

[hef]

i should have given this link instead.

http://www.northstarsound.com/

[santacore]

Thanks for the tip hef. I don't think I can hang in NYC but I'll check out your link. I know there are plenty of small places around the country, but really how many have a good facility and are active year round? I'm not to interested in doing political campaigns, advertising spots or corporate videos, which I'm guessing is how most of these places stay busy.

I know this is a tough one, but that's why I'm reaching out for ideas. Who knows, maybe someone that visits this board might be looking for someone. Crazier things have happened in this business.

Thanks again to everyone for contributing.

[Jazzpunk]

Hey John,
Last year I had gotten the itch to leave as well and had started cold calling studios in the areas I was interested in moving. While I did not get any solid offers (I was mostly looking in the pacific northwest), I found people outside of L.A. to be really friendly and receptive about hitting them up. As my girl and I decided to stay in L.A. I did not pursue the leads I had found but feel confidant that something would have opened up eventually.

It's tough to love what you do but not where you are doing it. Good luck with whatever you decide!

[minister]

there is work outside of the Big 2. .. i assume you mean in the U.S.

it is not all the same type of work, but there is work.

if you do foley, though, i'd forget about it : you will get some work, but you can't survive on foley alone outside of the big 2.

in minneapolis, there are a lot of ad agencies, some fairly large ones with big accounts. there are large companies like 3M, Target, Best Buy etc... there is a fair amount of wrok done here on that sort of thing. the PBS station (TPT) employs post people and several former employees make a living as free-lance mixers for PBS shows outside of TPT.

there are also many many video production companies doing everything from corporate videos to documentary to any manner of programs. hazelden produces a lot of video. the art and science museums produce programs. there are several TV production companies here producing all levels of cable TV (TLC, HGTV, FOOD NETWORK, DISCOVERY). there are a few animated series done here. and there are the odd-ball independent films too....even some with money... we had 3 features come through here last year, and 2 more so far this year, plus one re-edit.

(one reason my IMDB profile is so scant is because very few of the filmmakers bother to register and list their films there. i have worked on at least 20 films that are not on there. IMDB is more of an LA thing.)

then there is out of town work, which i get a fair share of....

i stay very busy because i am also a composer, and that is about 50-65% of my business. i also do some just straight music work for retail products, and a surprising amount of odds and ends.

i think it a truism to say that to survive in LA you have to be good at one thing; outside of LA, it is best to be good at many things.

a few music/audio places in town here do very well financially. is there work good? what type of work do they do?....

Chicago is largely also an ad town, but i know of at least one guy trying to do film there. he tells me there are not a lot dedicated to strictly film.

Boston has some places that survive on music and post for the various TV there like WGBH.

D.C. has Discovery and a few other big Cable places.

then there is europe and beyond....

no, i am not hiring.....

[soundboy]

What about Florida? Are Universal and MGM there just amusement parks? I really have no idea, just putting it out there.

[philper]

Well, I'm outside the "Big 2" and I'm working and making a living. I've built my contacts and rep up over 30 years here (SF). A big chunk of work outside of the major movie cities is done by one or two or three man bands, w/ the facility owners behind the boards. Are you willing to build your own room, rather than work for someone else? There are very few permanent staff positions doing what you do outside of LA--even @ Skywalker the salaried employees are mostly tech support people, the mixers and editors are project hires. Are you willing to lead the free-lance life? Are you willing to try your hand at all types of audio, including location music recording, games, film/video production sound, etc etc? Many people who come here from LA find that they cannot get themselves out of the specialist mind-set that they got while coming up in LA. As was said in an earlier post, in markets like ours most of us have to be pretty broadly versitile to survive.

Philip Perkins CAS

[starcrash13]

Skywalker Sound still does some work... they are in San Francisco.

Some? Hah! We've got a packed house right now.

[Henchman]

I wouldn't suggest anyone moving to Vancouver for post.
Unless you want to make pretty much half of what you make in LA, except the cost of livign is higher here.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I wouldn't suggest anyone moving to Vancouver for post.
Unless you want to make pretty much half of what you make in LA, except the cost of livign is higher here.

Mark I saw on your page that you were mixing pain killer jane- Kristiana lives behind me...


charles


is Vancouver really more expensive than LA? I can't see how places can stay open...


charles maynes

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Mark I saw on your page that you were mixing pain killer jane- Kristiana lives behind me...


charles


is Vancouver really more expensive than LA? I can't see how places can stay open...


charles maynes

Vancouver has become extremely expensive in the last 10 years.
House prices have doubled in the last 5 years and in some areas quadrupled.
Post Modern Sound owns their building, whci is why they are in a very good position for a business.

The average house in our neighbourhood has gone from $500k to $1.2 million in the last 5 years, and we get no tax dedcutions for mortgages.
We are currently paying $1.20 for a liter of gasoline ( almost $5,-US for a gallon) and in soudn we pretty much make half of what people in LA make.
By the end of this contract year I will have mixed over 150 days, and I think you'd be shocked at what I make.

Painkiller jane is fun to mix, but we have to mix it in a day. Which is unfortunate.
It's pretty tough getting through an action show in a day.

[santacore]

Thanks guys, keep them coming.

Phil, I think you summed things up. It seems like most of the work is being done by a few select houses that have a serious track record and run by people like yourself. By the way, I think you mixed a film I worked on years ago at International. Great job. I got to visit the stage one day and it was amazing to watch you dial in ADR on the fly and make it sound perfect.

I certainly understand that you need to be versatile. I've been freelancing for years and realized early on that I need to be able to do everything if I want to keep busy. Not only does it make you versatile but it keeps things interesting. I love mixing one day, ADR the next, sound design in between, and hopefully some foley recording. That's the fun of this business and what keeps me excited. If I had to just do one thing every day I think I would go nuts.

Minister, thanks for the insight and tips. You've given me more great info to think about. Don't worry, I won't be calling you looking for work. I'm doing just fine in L.A. and I really don't think I can handle MN.

starcrash13, great to hear you guys are busy. Is it true that it's pretty much freelance Skywalker? Are there any other houses up in your area that you would recommend checking out? My wife and I love northern California and have thought many times about moving up there.


Thanks again to all that have replied. To all those who contacted me about freelance work in my area, I have forwarded your resumes to the chief engineers at the places I work.

[santacore]

Ouch, Vancouver sounds worse than L.A.. So sorry. At least it's beautiful up there.

[starcrash13]

starcrash13, great to hear you guys are busy. Is it true that it's pretty much freelance Skywalker? Are there any other houses up in your area that you would recommend checking out? My wife and I love northern California and have thought many times about moving up there.

Yes, all sound editors and mixers (except mix techs who also mix sometimes) are freelance and union. Great place to live and work, but very difficult to break into (figuratively and literally ).

There is a fair amount of work in advertising up here. A lot of the bigger agencies have in-house post departments and many farm it out to local studios.

[Bob Olhsson]

From what I've been hearing the "big 2" has pretty much evolved into the "big 1!"

The new inexpensive, portable editing gear has moved most preliminary editing right onto the set. That leaves what I call "crunch time" post where the budget is virtually unlimited because the cost of missing the deadline is even more expensive. Today most of that work happens in a few neighborhoods in LA.

Mid-sized and regional post facilities are not doing well at all today compared with ten years ago. There are several huge LA-sized post facilities sitting empty here in Nashville.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by minister

(one reason my IMDB profile is so scant is because very few of the filmmakers bother to register and list their films there. i have worked on at least 20 films that are not on there. IMDB is more of an LA thing.)

Most filmmakers who do feature work or indi films that are actually picked up and distributed list them on IMDB. I don't see why anyone would consider it an 'L.A. exclusive' database!

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Painkiller jane is fun to mix, but we have to mix it in a day. Which is unfortunate.
It's pretty tough getting through an action show in a day.

I can't believe you only get a day! Especially knowing that video editors usually have weeks to massage the final cut.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I can't believe you only get a day! Especially knowing that video editors usually have weeks to massage the final cut.

Yes, it's very frustrating.
We pleaded with the production company to give us an extra half day, with no success.
I guess they did't want it cutting into the kraft services budget.

[soundboy]

I just mixed the EPK for Painkiller. It does look like a fun show. How in the hell do you do it in a day! How many days of premixing do you get?

To get on topic... There's also the various networks around the country that have staff mixers. CNN in Atlanta, Discovery outside of Washington DC....Isn't Travel Channel in Vermont?

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by soundboy

I just mixed the EPK for Painkiller. It does look like a fun show. How in the hell do you do it in a day! How many days of premixing do you get?

We get a day for a dialogue premix.
No othe rpremixes are done.

[lazzaro]

Originally Posted by santacore

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because frankly I'm getting sick of living in Los Angeles and have considered relocating. I have 2 small kids and don't want them growing up around this madness.

I spent 84-90 in Pasadena (grad school), and there's
a surprising number of my classmates who took
a salary hit after graduation in order to stay in the San Gabriel
valley and raise a family there. Which they did because they felt
it was a healthier environment for a family than Silicon Valley
(which was the default relocation site for most). And when I talk
to them now, they are happy with the choice they made.

I guess all I'm suggesting here is, maybe there's a way to rethink
how to live in LA county, rather than leave ... although it's been
almost 17 years now since I lived there myself, so its not that I
have a more concrete suggestion along these lines. Good luck.

[philper]

Originally Posted by santacore

Thanks guys, keep them coming.

Phil, I think you summed things up. It seems like most of the work is being done by a few select houses that have a serious track record and run by people like yourself. By the way, I think you mixed a film I worked on years ago at International. Great job. I got to visit the stage one day and it was amazing to watch you dial in ADR on the fly and make it sound perfect.

I certainly understand that you need to be versatile. I've been freelancing for years and realized early on that I need to be able to do everything if I want to keep busy. Not only does it make you versatile but it keeps things interesting. I love mixing one day, ADR the next, sound design in between, and hopefully some foley recording. That's the fun of this business and what keeps me excited. If I had to just do one thing every day I think I would go nuts..

I wish that had been me but I'm pretty sure it wasn't!

I do have one piece of naive hope for you: the cream rises. People notice and remember really good work and good experiences doing that work. Reputations take time to build, but build they do.

Philip Perkins CAS

[dr.sound]

John,
You might want to put your name on your posts. Why, because it lets people know who you are. You never know when someone might need your services and they like your attitude here, but they don't know what shows you do, where you work etc.
If you want to climb the ladder of opportunity, you must get noticed!

[Henchman]

I'll be down in LA at the end of may banging on doors.
Any tips or suggestions of places to call on would be appreciated.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I'll be down in LA at the end of may banging on doors.
Any tips or suggestions of places to call on would be appreciated.

http://www.la411.com/Post_Production...ties/Index.cfm

[santacore]

Philip, you're right I've got the wrong Perkins, sorry about that. I'm sure your work is also excellent.

Marty, thanks for the tip. I've finally successfully added a signature, which should help. By the way I really like your stage. I'm a good friend of Chris J's and was over visting with him a few weeks back. Sorry I missed you, I think Chris said you were on vacation. Glad to hear you guys are doing well.

Henchman, the link Jazzpunk offered is a good start. A little more info on your plans would help so that we can offer better suggestions.

Thanks again to all that have offered suggestions.