More design for sound design

[Soundproof]

Hi all,

As you can see this is my first post and my first thread here on GS. I've been in the shadows for a while now though and am very very excited about this Post Production forum!

OK, so let's get this thing on. I've been recently working on a short (10min or so) student film (and am a student myself) as the sound designer. What I would like to discuss here is about how we could bring more to the table in making of a film.

For this film I made a full-length demo for everyone to hear. Yes, a DEMO for a film! Now I know that all of this may be just amateurish or student-like-hell, I don't know if every other sound designer out there has tried this before but I sure haven't heard about it apart from our teacher who encouraged us to do this.

I should also point out that I'm in Finland and I know we do things a lot different here. Mostly because our film industry is so poor etc. We mostly use dialogue from the production and every producer thinks that recording stuff in post is a waste of time and money!

The demo I made consisted of dialogue spoken by stunts (no acting, just reading it thrhough), ambiences, effects - you name it. It took me a couple of days to make and the feedback from the director as well as the cinematographer was great. We all now had a thing to speak about; since sound is such an abstract thing it's always hard to really get into it. Now they could say " I like/don't like that " etc.

Now I'm studying on the subject and wanted to hear from you guys what kind of thoughts does this kind of approach bring to mind? This type of workflow could give us more power in influencing on the final result of the film being made!

[peter.stoel@xs4]

Aaah, the innocence of youth....(just kidding) It's great to work like that, but here in Holland, no production company is going to allocate money for a "demo", simply because there isn't any. I'm lucky if I get to have a decent conversation with the director about his/her intentions and three days to do the full monty on a 50 minute documentary... But then I'm not a sounddesigner in the pure sence of the word, I edit/eq/mix and add Atmo's, music and SFX.

Still, I would love to be involved even earlier, say halfway through the picture edit and deliver ideas to the picture department, sound can very much influence decisions in editing as well. How many times have I thought; "If they had just left this shot 12 frames longer I could have...."

Only once have I worked with a picture editor who believed sound was actually more important than picture. If it was up to him he would build the whole film in audio first and then start with the picture edit.

Film/video is nothing more than sound with irritating flickering before your eyes ;-)

[Axiomhead]

Originally Posted by peter.stoel@xs4

"If they had just left this shot 12 frames longer I could have...."

Isn't that what TCE is for?

Jking...

But seriously, I used to engineer for an outfit that did "demos" for the Discovery channel. Most of the time the voice actors were just other engineers and we did full M&E. It gave the producer a great guide as to the directions we could go with the sound design. This was usually done before the storyboards were finished. Sometimes they would add them to the animatics, they had a great storyboard artist. It was like watching the ultimate comic! These were very influencial on the final production.

[soundguydave]

In the ad world, we do this all the time. I'll produce a full 30 second audio only version of a television spot, usually working off storyboards and a script. Then the agency takes it to focus groups and tests the hell out of it. Then when they find something that works, they produce the full spot.

[Soundproof]

Hehe, I knew I was gonna get blamed for my opticism towards the whole thing.

Nevertheless we are dealing with the idea-killer of this business: money. Here in Finland the Finnish Film Foundation some what decides on the ten full features that are made in a year. They are the biggest funding unit to even get the whole script into pre-production phase.

Now wouldn't it be easier for a producer or director to pitch their idea/script if they had something demo-like to present? I don't think it would be that of a bad idea even when we're talking about our little movie countries who make the features with pocket change comparing to Hollywood etc.

Axiomhead - that's good to hear! If someone has done this succesfully like you said, it surely will be worth checking out. This whole idea of course needs an open environment to grow in, and the movie business sure isn't quite that from what I know.

Well, at least I'll get to try and see what comes out of it during my last years in school!

[Soundproof]

Soundguydave-

Is this something that you've done there always or how/where did you come up with this method of working? Is it like an industry standard or is it something special that you offer?

[soundguydave]

Its been done as long as I can remember, but I've only been doing this for 5 years. These days companies just want to get the most out of their cash. Sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a bad thing.