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#31
4th November 2007
Old 4th November 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
So we're talking the first few split seconds of a quick sharp sound? Does this mean that you would really only use the term "transients" when talking about drums and percussion as you noted, and not vocals/bass/guitar (rhythm) etc.?

Awesome! Thanks for that.
Not exactly. Most instruments can have a transient. The sharp beginning of a picked bass note, for example, is its "transient".
#32
19th March 2008
Old 19th March 2008
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Thanks guys

A big thank you from the non-native english speakers in the world.

We have definetly been involved in confusing what a premix and a stem is.

I'll try to make sure that we here on after conform to the US standard to avoid creating additional misunderstandings when discussing things like this between countries.


OR Perhaps you guys could adapt to the swedish terminology for a final mix...
"SLUT MIX"
Isn't that just quite a bit cooler sounding than printmaster/final mix? :-)
#33
19th March 2008
Old 19th March 2008
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I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm starting to like "Pre-mix" to describe each music element. It may not be universally used, but it does indeed make sense. I found myself throwing it in there on a recent final to see if it gave me the hives. Charles, am I drinkin' your Kool-Aid?
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#34
19th March 2008
Old 19th March 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Pinder View Post
I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm starting to like "Pre-mix" to describe each music element. It may not be universally used, but it does indeed make sense. I found myself throwing it in there on a recent final to see if it gave me the hives. Charles, am I drinkin' your Kool-Aid?
God help you if you drink anything I brew up-

the premix/predub terminology is still vexing- though all that is needed is that one is source tracks, and the other is "mixed" tracks.

my biggest issue is the use of the term "stems", which I hold somewhat sacred...


cm
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#35
20th March 2008
Old 20th March 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia View Post
Glossary of Technical Terms

32 / 44.1 / 48 / 88.2 / 96 / 176.4 / 192 / 352.8 / 384kHz – Refers to the sample rate of a digital recording (samples per second).
16 bit / 24 bit / 32 bit – Refers to the bit width (sometimes called bit depth), or precision of a PCM digital signal (or recording).
AIFF – Audio Interchange File Format. A computer file type which contains digital audio data. Notably, the AIFF format does not support time stamping.
AIT – Advanced Intelligent Tape. Helical-Scan Magnetic Tape Storage Format developed by Sony.
ATA – Advanced Device Attachment. Often used in the same context as IDE or
EIDE. Short for Advanced Technology Attachment, a disk drive implementation that integrates the controller on the disk drive itself. There are several versions of ATA, all developed by the Small Form Factor (SFF) Committee:
* ATA: Known also as IDE, supports one or two hard drives, a 16-bit interface and PIO modes 0, 1 and 2.
* ATA-2: Supports faster PIO modes (3 and 4) and multiword DMA modes (1 and 2). Also supports logical block addressing (LBA) and block transfers. ATA-2 is marketed as Fast ATA and Enhanced IDE (EIDE).
* ATA-3: Minor revision to ATA-2.
* Ultra-ATA: Also called Ultra-DMA, ATA-33, and DMA-33, supports multiword DMA mode 3 running at 33 MBps.
* ATA/66: A version of ATA proposed by Quantum Corporation, and supported by Intel, that doubles ATA's throughput to 66 MBps.
* ATA/100: An updated version of ATA/66 that increases data transfer rates to 100 MBps.
Blu-Ray – A new, as-of-yet-unreleased optical disk technology that utilizes a short-wavelength (hence, “blue”) laser to write and read, allowing far greater amounts of data to be reliably stored.
Broadcast Wave File – A computer file type which contains, among other items, digital audio data. The Broadcast Wave File format is an EBU (European
Broadcast Union) standard whose data format is based on the Microsoft RIFF wave format; there is room for additional information in the file (as specified in the “header”) which allows for storage of metadata.
BWF – Broadcast Wave Format. Same above.
B-Wave – Broadcast Wave Format. Same as above.
CD – Compact Disc. 5.25 inch Optical storage medium that allows storage of either 74 min./650 MB or 80 min./700 MB of information.
CD-R – Compact Disc, recordable one time. The CD-R is 5.25-inch optical media with same storage capability as CD.
CD – RW – Compact Disc Recordable/Writable. 5.25-inch Compact Disc format that may be written to, erased, and re-written many times.
Channel – one indivisible “stream” of audio. “One” channel would refer to a mono source, “two” channels might refer to a stereo source, 6 channels (and perhaps more) could refer to a “Surround” source.
Consolidate (as it refers to audio files) – The process of taking the constituent
audio files with edits & etc for a single track (“vocal”, “guitar” & etc) and combining them into one continuous file.
DAW – Digital Audio Workstation. ProTools, Nuendo, Fairlight, Digital Performer, Emagic Logic, Sonic Solutions, SADiE & etc.
Deliverables – Materials turned into the Record Label upon completion of a project. Refers to all media and documentation. NARAS Master Delivery Specifications set a Minimum and Recommended set of delivery requirements.
DLT – Digital Linear Tape. Magnetic tape backup format owned by Quantum.
DSD – Direct Stream Digital. Refers to the process used for encoding audio in a high sample rate (2.8224 MHz) / one-bit depth format. Certain recorders from Genex, Tascam, and DAW’s from SaDIE & Merging Technologies (see below) support this format type. DSD is the technology at the foundation of Sony’s
SACD release format.
DVD – Digital Versatile Disc - 5.25 inch Optical storage format that allows for storage of 4.7 GB for single sided media and 9.4 GB for double-sided media.
There are many types of consumer DVD’s (e.g., the well-known DVD-Video, and more recently DVD-A, which provides multiple formats including 5.1, or surround,
audio) and personal computer formats (DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVDRAM), some of which are not compatible with certain players.
Ecrix (was Exabyte) 820/8505 – 8mm proprietary magnetic tape storage format. Used in many RADAR II and RADAR 24 digital recorders as backup device. No longer manufactured.
Ecrix (was Exabyte) VXA – 8mm proprietary magnetic tape storage format.
Currently holds a maximum of 66GB of compressed data per tape (33GB uncompressed). Can be considered as a replacement to Exabyte 8505/ 820
EIDE - See ATA above.
Enterprise-Class Storage Media – Media types that are in use by large
corporations (Fortune 500, etc.). These storage types include LTO, SDLT, and AIT.
Exabyte – see Ecrix
FAT32 – Logical disk format method used by PC compatible machines.
Firewire Drive – Hard disk utilizing a Firewire physical interface and typically composed of a Firewire to IDE bridge chip and, inside the box, most often an IDE/EIDE drive.
Flatten (Audio Files) – Refers to the process of taking audio files used on a
Digital Audio Workstation and converting them into one continuous file for each track. Also referred to as “Consolidation” (see above).
HDD – Hard Disk Drive.
IDE – Integrated Device Electronics. See ATA above.
HFS, HFS Plus (also called “Extended”) – Logical (as contrasted to Physical) disk format method developed by Apple. HFS Plus increases the number of allocation blocks, especially useful for high capacity hard disk drives.
Linux / Unix <tar> – Logical format originally developed for archival of files on Unix Machines. tar is an acronym for “Tape Archive Retrieval”. tar format is accepted as a universal and open-source logical storage format. It is most often used with streaming tape physical media.
LTO – Linear Tape Open. Magnetic Tape Format co-developed by Hewlett- Packard, Seagate and IBM. Multiple vendors for both drives and media.
Master – A “Master” is defined as a collection of the various original components of the recording process for a given production, each in their originally recorded formats, and collected in a form that is ready for transition to the next phase of the process. (For example, the ‘Master’ from the tracking process is collected in a form that is ready for transition to the overdubbing process. The ‘Master’ from the overdubbing process is then prepared for the mixing process. The mixed ‘Master’ is in a form that is ready for transition to the mastering process. And so
"Masters" include (but are not limited to) all analog and digital master tapes, hard
disks, optical media, and all backups in turn made of these during the recording process. The Masters include all of the various original components of the recording process for a given production in each of their originally recorded formats. These ‘Masters’ should have no deletions of useful material (out-takes, artist talking, incomplete or unreleased recordings, etc.). The constitution of “useful material” is determined by agreement between Record Company and Producer prior to the commencement of the recording project.
Metadata - Metadata is data (or “information”) about data or other information.
MO – Magneto-Optical. Storage method which uses an optical laser and a magnetic field to record data on an optical disk.
Optical Storage Media – Understood as recordable media which consists of several materials, one of which is heated with a laser to allow absorption (instead of reflection) to expose the ‘pits’ in the material which, when read by a laser, can be interpreted as data. CD-R, CD-RW DVD-R, DVD-RW & etc.
PCM – Pulse Code Modulation that refers to an encoding process used whenconverting analog audio to a binary digital file that may be written in a variety of formats.
PDF – Portable Document Format. An Adobe product standard that generalizes document format; it allows the same document format to be created on, and transferred between many different types of computers.
PHDD – Proprietary Hard Disk Drive.
Positional Reference – Timing reference used during the recording/ overdub/ mixing process used to synchronize devices and mix automation.
SACD – Super Audio Compact Disc. 5.25 inch optical format utilizing Direct Stream Digital (DSD) technology to record and play music with a “single-bit” running at a high sampling frequency (2.8224 MHz).
SCSI – Small Computer Systems Interface. An interface often used on computers for connecting devices (usually hard drives) to a computer. SCSI is currently the fastest large format random access technology available, making it desirable for Pro Audio use.
SDII – Sound Designer II. Used to refer to a type of audio data file developed by Digidesign. Limited to a maximum sample rate of 48kHz.
SDLT – Super DLT. Magneto-Optical tape format owned by Quantum. Next generation of the DLT format.
Time Code – The most common type of Positional Reference, usually refers to SMPTE time code (developed by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers). The number (30, 29.97, 29.97drop-frame, 25, 24) specifies the timecode reference in number in frames per second.
Track – “Track”, for the purpose of audio storage, is a place where elements of
program (music & etc) material are put. Meanings abound, however…
Track (n.): Originally, in analog tape recording, a term synonymous with one channel of content. An Ampex 301 3-track recorder had the capability of 3 separate channels of audio.
Track (n.): (proposed modern definition for audio recording) A unique, irreducible element in the context of a “production”. A modern “track” may contain one or more channels of program material (e.g., the “lead vocal track” would most often be a single-channel track, whereas the “live room track” recorded on a DAW in surround, may have 4 or more “channels” of audio). Tracks might also include, or even be limited to, MIDI or sequencing data.
The word “Track” has various additional meanings in and around music and production.
Track (n.): One individual selection on a CD or an “LP” or etc.
Track (v.): The process of recording. (example, “to track a session”)
Track (v).: Logistically, to locate. (example, “can you track down a drummer who can play in tempo?”)

Glossary of Recording Technologies

Alesis ADAT & XT – 8-Track 16-bit Modular Digital Recorder that uses VHS videotape.
Alesis HD-24 – 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder
Alesis XT-20 / Alesis M-20 – 8-Track 20-bit Modular Digital Recorder that uses VHS videotape.
Cubase VST – Host Based Digital Audio Workstation software.
Digital Performer - Host Based Digital Audio Workstation software.
Emagic Logic - Host Based Digital Audio Workstation software. Recently purchased by Apple (July 2002).
Euphonix R-1 – Multitrack Digital Hard Disk Recorder. Configurable up to 96 tracks & supports 24-bit/ 96-kHz recording.
Fairlight MFX / MFX Plus – Digital Audio Workstation utilizing a proprietary Hard Disk Drive format for audio storage.
Fairlight Merlin – 24 or 48-Track 24-bit Digital Hard Disk Recorder
Genex GX8500 & GX9048 – 8-channel High-Density 24-bit/ 96-kHz PCM (8500) & PCM/DSD (9048) Magneto Optical Disk Recorders.
Mackie HDR / MDR 2496 – 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder manufactured by Mackie. HDR/ MDR recorders utilize removable IDE drives in a proprietary format.
Merging Technologies (Pyramix) – Host Based Digital Audio Workstation software.
Nuendo – Host-based (meaning running on a Macintosh or a PC) Digital Audio Workstation manufactured by Steinberg. Supports up to 32-bit / 96-kHz Recording.
Paris – Multitrack Digital Audio Workstation manufactured by Ensoniq.
PCM 3348 / PCM 3348-HR – Open reel digital 48-track recorder. PCM3348-HR machines support 24-bit resolution. PCM 3348 machines support only 16-bit resolution.
PCM 3324 – Open reel digital 16-bit 24-track recorder manufactured by Sony.
ProTools 24, Mix, Mix+ – Digital Audio Workstation manufactured by Digidesign. Limited to a maximum resolution of 48kHz, 24 bit. A “host-based” system, it runs on either a Macintosh or a PC.
ProTools HD – Newest revision of a host-based (meaning running on a Macintosh or a PC) Digital Audio Workstation released by Digidesign. Supports sample rates & resolutions up to 192-kHz/ 24-bit.
RADAR II / RADAR 24 – 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder currently manufactured
by iZ Technologies. RADAR utilizes a proprietary hard disk drive format and generates proprietary backups on DVD or Exabyte 820 / 8505 8mm Media
Tascam DA-88 / Sony PCM 900 – 8-Track 16-bit Modular Digital Recorder which uses Hi-8 format tapes.
Tascam DA-78 / Tascam DA-78HR – 8-Track 16-bit Modular Digital recorder which uses Hi-8 format tapes. The DA-78HR refers to the High-Resolution version that supports 24-bit width recording.
Tascam DA-98 / Tascam DA-98HR – 8-Track Modular Digital Recorders with basic editing and routing functions which use Hi-8 format tapes. The DA-98HR refers to the High-Resolution version that supports a 24-bit width recording, the DA-98 is a 16 bit machine.
Tascam DS-D98 – Modular Digital Recorder which may be configured as a 2- track tape- based DSD (SACD format) recorder or up to 8-Track digital recorder. Supports sample rates up to and including 192 kHz.
Tascam MMR – 8 or 16 - track (16 is play only) Hard disk recorder with removable media (SCSI hard disk in either FAT32 or MacOS format). Unusual in that it reads Digidesign-format project files.
Tascam MX 2424 – 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder that uses both internal and removable SCSI Hard Drives formatted in either Fat-32 or HFS formats.


cheers
geo
Oh man, MORE homework!

Philip Perkins
#36
21st March 2008
Old 21st March 2008
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
God help you if you drink anything I brew up-

the premix/predub terminology is still vexing- though all that is needed is that one is source tracks, and the other is "mixed" tracks.

my biggest issue is the use of the term "stems", which I hold somewhat sacred...


cm
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the point of the terminology is to facilitate communication and to minimize misunderstanding; not to prove which department has a monopoly on "right." As such, when communicating between departments, using "premix stem" for a music submix seems to me to satisfy both the scoring stage and the dub stage.

I agree that using the term "stem" alone is unacceptable as it is more likely to cause confusion than to transfer the intended information. However, if you say "predub," a host of music guys will be just as confused or upset.

I've worked both sides of the hall, so perhaps I'm more open to terms that satisfy both points of view. I'd rather use a term that is easily understood by all than to try to convince half the people that they are wrong.

Of course, it could just be that I'm insane... you can never discount that possibility... Now if we could just get people to stop saying room tone for backgrounds!
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#37
24th March 2008
Old 24th March 2008
  #37
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Foley Mixer or Foley Recordist

Hi,

I work in Argentina and my main occupation is recording Foley in our stage. I do it directly to Pro Tools, then edit it and premix it and send it to my clients. Usually I am not present at the re-recording stage. How would you properly name the person who takes care of that task? Foley Recordist or Foley Mixer?
Thanks in advance. It'll help me build my resume correctly.

Regards,

TK.
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#38
24th March 2008
Old 24th March 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeshi View Post
Hi,

I work in Argentina and my main occupation is recording Foley in our stage. I do it directly to Pro Tools, then edit it and premix it and send it to my clients. Usually I am not present at the re-recording stage. How would you properly name the person who takes care of that task? Foley Recordist or Foley Mixer?
Thanks in advance. It'll help me build my resume correctly.

Regards,

TK.
since you are not able to mix against other elements I would say that you are rough mixing or evening levels- I do not think that in most cases you would see the material go straight into a final that way...

at least here it would tend not to.

I would say that the session would qualify as a "cut" or edited bit of work.
#39
28th March 2008
Old 28th March 2008
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Hi Charles,

Thanks for your answer. Of course, it's not "mixing" what I do, and the recorgings we submit to the supervising editor is always mixed by someone else. My precise question is how do you name the person who records Foley?. It seems somehow to me that you may call him "Foley recordist", but on the other hand the person who takes care of Production Sound Recording is called "Production Sound Mixer" so hence my doubt. Of course, the Prod Sound Mixer may do some actual mixing.....
Please, excuse me if it's a silly question, I couldn't figure it out myself.

Regards,

TK.
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#40
28th March 2008
Old 28th March 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeshi View Post
Hi Charles,

Thanks for your answer. Of course, it's not "mixing" what I do, and the recorgings we submit to the supervising editor is always mixed by someone else. My precise question is how do you name the person who records Foley?. It seems somehow to me that you may call him "Foley recordist", but on the other hand the person who takes care of Production Sound Recording is called "Production Sound Mixer" so hence my doubt. Of course, the Prod Sound Mixer may do some actual mixing.....
Please, excuse me if it's a silly question, I couldn't figure it out myself.

Regards,

TK.
Foley Recordist or Mixer is the usual title..

Just like an ADR mixer...


cm
#41
10th October 2008
Old 10th October 2008
  #41
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hi

hi charles..
i want to ask you that
If an amplifier is "balanced", does that just mean it has XLR connections?
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#42
10th October 2008
Old 10th October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy03 View Post
hi charles..
i want to ask you that
If an amplifier is "balanced", does that just mean it has XLR connections?
Well that isn't really a post production sound issue...


but from my experience an amplifier which has "Balanced" inputs will usually have XLR jacks, and perhaps TRS input jacks....
#43
10th October 2008
Old 10th October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Well that isn't really a post production sound issue...


but from my experience an amplifier which has "Balanced" inputs will usually have XLR jacks, and perhaps TRS input jacks....
You can also have an unbalanced unit with XLR +4 dBu I/O. But yes, if you see three conductors (XLR or TRS - Tip, Ring, Sleeve) it usually is balanced. Basically you have an inverting and non inverting line to reject common mode noise. To try to simplify it conceptually, add an extra line to the normal hot and cold, and reverse the polarity on that third line so that any noise picked up along the line during transmission is "out of phase" (more accurately reversed polarity) when the signal gets put back at the receiving end, and the noise gets cancelled.
#44
3rd November 2008
Old 3rd November 2008
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wake me up when this thread is over....
#45
18th November 2008
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Smile

How 'bout this:

Hack = Me!

Seriously, in the UK they always say "dubbing mixer" what is that? In America a dubber converts and duplicates tapes and a mixer mixes.
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#46
18th November 2008
Old 18th November 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh broome View Post
How 'bout this:

Hack = Me!

Seriously, in the UK they always say "dubbing mixer" what is that? In America a dubber converts and duplicates tapes and a mixer mixes.
Dubbing mixer is the UK version of Rerecording Mixer.

A "Dubber" in US film terminology would be a playback device.
#47
27th November 2008
Old 27th November 2008
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Terminologetics?

I may not be using this correctly, as I didn't see it in this thread and I'm a music guy gone post over the past couple years but..

As an editor, I've handed over what's been called tempdubs of either Foley or FX when directors/investors want a work in progress screening, but as you said predubbs when it's going upstream to the mixer.. Borrowing from other terms, I've always just geussed temp=temporary and dub=mix, is tempdub ever used for anything else?
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#48
27th November 2008
Old 27th November 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Night Train View Post
I may not be using this correctly, as I didn't see it in this thread and I'm a music guy gone post over the past couple years but..

As an editor, I've handed over what's been called tempdubs of either Foley or FX when directors/investors want a work in progress screening, but as you said predubbs when it's going upstream to the mixer.. Borrowing from other terms, I've always just geussed temp=temporary and dub=mix, is tempdub ever used for anything else?
I think it is a grey area personally. If it didn't go on a stage, I would be leery of considering it a "proper" temp mix, but things have changed so much in the last few years, that it is negotiable.
#49
3rd December 2008
Old 3rd December 2008
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So I came to this thread to help me understand post terminology, and now I feel like I am left with more questions than answers! I jest, I actually have learned a lot from this thread as I am trying to absorb as much as I can.

What I don't understand is this, re-recording. My experience so far is I have done lots of free work for SCAD student projects (max 15 minute films) and have done a feature length film.

What I get sent on a GOOD project is a Final Cut project where someone else has placed in all the audio they have so far. Typically it's all the audio from the shotgun, fight noises the fight coordinator has put in, some foley that they added, and sometimes even song suggestions.

I take this and export it and bring it into whatever DAW I am using (PT now, was DP).

Everything I get is 'recorded' digital. I just manipulate it, or add to it.

I don't understand those concepts of what maybe in this small capacity has not been done. Just trying to understand as my projects get bigger, where all these things AND terminology fit in.

Since at this time I am not at a 5.1 system (working on it!) I did what I would have considered I guess a stereo printmaster and also provided a bunch of stems (the term the other mixing house involved used). I provided Dialog, SFX, Foley, Background Noise and Music. The reason, a third party was doing the 5.1 mix on what I did.

These stems were mixing so that at unity gain, summed, they provided my final stereo mix.

Did I somehow do rerecording? dubbing?

I did learn about academy leaders at 2-pops! So at least I am making progress. Just trying to fill in all the gaps and make sure I understand the nomenclature as I continue to pass my work on to other studios for the parts I cannot do.

Thanks!
Rick
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#50
3rd December 2008
Old 3rd December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimepoch View Post
So I came to this thread to help me understand post terminology, and now I feel like I am left with more questions than answers! I jest, I actually have learned a lot from this thread as I am trying to absorb as much as I can.

What I don't understand is this, re-recording. My experience so far is I have done lots of free work for SCAD student projects (max 15 minute films) and have done a feature length film.

What I get sent on a GOOD project is a Final Cut project where someone else has placed in all the audio they have so far. Typically it's all the audio from the shotgun, fight noises the fight coordinator has put in, some foley that they added, and sometimes even song suggestions.

I take this and export it and bring it into whatever DAW I am using (PT now, was DP).

Everything I get is 'recorded' digital. I just manipulate it, or add to it.

I don't understand those concepts of what maybe in this small capacity has not been done. Just trying to understand as my projects get bigger, where all these things AND terminology fit in.

Since at this time I am not at a 5.1 system (working on it!) I did what I would have considered I guess a stereo printmaster and also provided a bunch of stems (the term the other mixing house involved used). I provided Dialog, SFX, Foley, Background Noise and Music. The reason, a third party was doing the 5.1 mix on what I did.

These stems were mixing so that at unity gain, summed, they provided my final stereo mix.

Did I somehow do rerecording? dubbing?

I did learn about academy leaders at 2-pops! So at least I am making progress. Just trying to fill in all the gaps and make sure I understand the nomenclature as I continue to pass my work on to other studios for the parts I cannot do.

Thanks!
Rick
Asylum Studio Productions

Well, Rick, actually not a bad question. i must commend you on learning the idea of Leaders/countdowns and 2 pops. This is a bit of knowledge that all in audio post need to know. It surprises me how many new film editors fresh out of film school, when asked to provide these simple and essential items have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and always seem to flub up the first several attempts. Why isn't this taught in film school? (or maybe i should ask, 'why isn't this learned in film school?') If you are going to come out of school, you will no doubt be someone's intern or assistant. This is the type of thing that you really need to know, and is the fault of teachers and students alike that this is not stressed more.

Re-recording mixers, often called 'dubbers' in europe and some other areas, according to IMDB are:
Quote:
"AKA: Sound re-recording mixer
A member of the sound crew responsible for mixing the final sound elements (dialogue, music, sound effects and foley). In most feature films and some television shows there is a crew of three re-recording mixers (one for dialog, one for sound effects and foley and one for music.) Sometimes in television the music mixer mixes the foley for expediency. There are also two-person crews in which the dialog mixer (generally considered the lead mixer) mixes music as well, with the other person mixing sound effects and foley."
Since many features are not mixed ITB, audio is still routed through a mixer. They take the sound recorded on set, SFX, Foley, and Music, which has been edited over many weeks, played out by HD systems, mix it, passing the audio through the mixer, and 're-record' the audio onto the awaiting recording device. Generally, it is first 'pre-mixed' by flavor, (Dialog, Sfx, etc) into stems. then during the final mix, these stems are then sent back through the board, and re-recorded as the 'final mix'. All durring this process, at least on the majors i've worked on, there is generally several conforms, countless coffee runs, several temp mixes, and at least 3 or 4 shouting matches between the director and some overworked producer/editor or the like.

With a lot of the industry mixing on ICONS, in the box, this has all been replaced with what you described, with the mixer simply manipulating the sessions that the editors produce, or they themselves edit. ITB vs. OTB? You decide.
#51
3rd December 2008
Old 3rd December 2008
  #51
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Wow, can I just give you a *big* thank you as now I feel like I am not going crazy! I felt like I was missing something, but now I understand, a lot of this comes from the older ways to do things, that still do happen in many studios.

I'm not a film school student at all, but I can say, I am very much not impressed with the people in film schools doing audio. I say this because most of the people I do audio for out of film school (because all the practice I can get makes me better) seem to REALLY like working with me and NOT working with students. Anything I get from them typically is absolutely worthless.

I had one conversation where, in the film, a character jiggles a handle 3 times, then knocks on a door like 8 times. They wanted to provide the foley for this. I get the foley, it's someone jiggling a handle twice and knocking 3 times. I wrote them a nice LONG email about, hey, why not record MORE than what you need so you can pick and chose the best stuff to use. These are audio students in school. You'd think they'd have a clue about....audio for film! I am not even touching the audio QUALITY that they sent me. This same person, I requested some ambience from the different locations they shot. I get ONE file and it's ten seconds long. There are people talking in another room. worthless.

All in all, I am glad to be starting in on this *next* wave of post production ITB. Don't worry, I've been involved in enough ITB and OTB discussions, I have no question each has their pluses and minuses. As I say, do what makes you happy!

And again, seriously thanks. I am trying to get a head start on so many things before I start working on the next film!!!

Rick
Asylum Studio Productions
#52
15th January 2009
Old 15th January 2009
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Here's some terms I just posted in another thread...I figured I'd put them in here so all the terminology is in one place...

DX or DIA - Short for Dialogue, but usually refers to all production sound recorded on the set.

MX - Short for Music.

FX or SFX - Short for sound effects or special effects that are added/cut for the scene.

FOL - Short for foley. Foley is sounds that are performed by a person in sync with the picture. Foot steps, motion/clothing noises, etc.

BG's - Short for Backgrounds... usually describing any background or ambient sounds cut for the scene...things like crickets, ocean, traffic, rain, etc. They aren't really sync'd to any specific action on camera, but are used more as a "backdrop" to help make the scene more believable/convincing. They arel put on their own set of tracks usually with the label "BG" in the name.

PFX - Short for Production Sound FX. PFX are any sound effect-type things that happened on the set. Door slams, footsteps, cup/glass noises, etc... Most of the time PFX are replaced by foley, but sometimes the director will like the PFX more, or sometimes the combination of the PFX and Foley have a more dramatic effect. But regardless, you need to separate these from the dialogue tracks so they can be bussed to their own stem/premix or sent into the FX stem.

ADR - Automatic Dialog Replacement...sometimes called looping. Anytime a line isn't useable for any reason, the actor will come into a recording studio and re-say his or her lines, replacing the unusable original. They too are put on their own set of tracks because they will need to be processed differently in the mix to make them blend with the production sound.


Also, I hear the term "dub" used a lot in place of the word "mix" here in L.A. and actually that's how I was taught. A Dub stage is a mixing stage, a pre-dub is a pre-mix, a temp-dub is a temp mix. The dubber isn't a playback device but a recording device. It is the device used to record the output of the console and usually captures the stems. Not that this really means anything, but when you set Protools to "destructive recording" it is referred to in the reference guide as "dubber mode" (at least it was at one time, not sure if it still is).

I guess the rational you could use, although it is a stretch... is that a mix can only be heard while mixing... once that mix is captured onto another medium as a compiled/merged file, it becomes a dub of the mix you were doing on the console. So using that logic, the Pre mix, final mix, temp mix, etc would actually only be referring to the actual console setup and settings... the file that is recorded off the console from that Temp Mix, Pre mix, Final mix would be considered the temp dub, pre dub or final dub.
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#53
15th January 2009
Old 15th January 2009
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The only correction I would make is that DX is not any and all on set recordings. Remember, Production FX, although handled by the DX mixer, goes to the FX stem. Just being picky.
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#54
15th January 2009
Old 15th January 2009
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimepoch View Post
These are audio students in school. You'd think they'd have a clue about....audio for film! I am not even touching the audio QUALITY that they sent me. This same person, I requested some ambience from the different locations they shot. I get ONE file and it's ten seconds long. There are people talking in another room. worthless.
Be nice. You'd be surprised how many of those idiots get a sweet directors gig after school, and they come looking for you to handle the post.

That can end up being a WIDE OPEN DOOR.
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#55
28th August 2009
Old 28th August 2009
  #55
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what does SOT stand for?
thanks.
#56
2nd September 2009
Old 2nd September 2009
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Is it sound on tape?
#57
2nd October 2009
Old 2nd October 2009
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Thanks for this thread. It's helped me get straight some post terminology I was confused about.
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#58
20th October 2009
Old 20th October 2009
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Is there a typical way of distinguishing natural, diegetic sounds from processed, specials effect sounds? ...or did I just do it?

Example: I just finished putting all the preliminary, necessary sound elements into a movie - some Foley, some wild and stock sounds - actions you see that must have a sound. I want to tell the director that I have put all those sounds in, and will begin working on special effects and extra decorative sounds, as well as designing sounds with processing. He calls all the natural, diegetic sound "Foley" - but what I've read around here suggests that Foley only refers to sounds recorded in sync with the picture.

Does anyone really use the term "diegetic"? Would you say, "all the diegetic sounds are there and I'm going to focus on special effects sounds?
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#59
20th October 2009
Old 20th October 2009
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You can only use "diegetic" if you graduated from film school....
#60
28th October 2009
Old 28th October 2009
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Well... are there terms people use to differentiate natural sound effects from 'special effect' sound effects and the other sounds in a film?

I know this is probably the dumbest question in a way, but I've not worked in a studio with pros. What are the most common terms for:
diegetic sounds
special sound effects

And I'm sure the rest are usually called:
background ambience
dialog
music
source music

Basically the director says 'Foley' when he is referring to everything besides music and dialog. What should he be saying?
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