Dialogue Editing

[jorbi]

Anyone here involved in dialogue editing? I do a ton of dialogue editing for my job. I've been using ProTools for years and years and that's what we use here, but I find it endlessly frustrating that, when breaking up a recording session and creating specific regions for the various lines of dialogue, there is no databasing capabilities... at least that I'm aware of.

I would love to select a line and instead of simply creating a region to which I can only give a name, create the region and have it automatically allow me to assign attributes to the region, such as scene, character, take, line #, or whatever other "category" i choose to set up for the session. You could tab through the various fields and that information would also be included as metadata if you exported the regions as files. You could also then opt to arrange your region list in accordance to any of the fields... by character, by scene, by line, etc. Essentially... more like the way you medialog footage for an Avid.

As it is, I'm forced to simply name the regions in a way that allows them to list themselves by line number. Is there better dialogue editing software that I'm unaware of? Anyone?

[jahtao]

SADiE allows BWAVs to be labeled in at least two ways: clip name (doesn't affect the file name) and reel name.

They can be sorted alphanumerically in a text edl (alongsie other useful info like timecode in out, source, level, files type etc etc etc) which can be printed or easily imported into excel if that's your bag.

That much i know, there may be more going on that i don't know about, if you';re serious phone or email SADiE, they'll be happy to discuss it i'm sure

[philper]

I thought Digibase allowed comments to be entered? For really detailed notes etc, friends of mine who produce soundtracks for computer games (and use ProTools) use Gallery's "VoicePro" app to record, edit and manage the thousands of lines needed for a big game. I saw VP in action at their studio while they were doing their last game and was very impressed.

Philip Perkins

[jorbi]

Thanks guys! I just looked into these. SADiE is probably too much of a shift... We'd have to do away with ProTools and Macs it looks like. VoicePro looks cool though but it's more of a recording program. But it's in the right direction definitely. Essentially, I just wish ProTools had a way for you to "medialog" a long audio track into regions, the way you can go through a beta tape and select shots, describe them, etc., then import only the chunks you want. Oh well... I'm sure it'll exist some day.

Anyone know how they go about labelling dialogue files/regions when doing a huge animation project? Or on other series like The Simpsons?

[soundboy]

If memory serves, the Timeline Wavestation did this. It was PC based. Don't know if they still make them.

[philper]

Originally Posted by soundboy

If memory serves, the Timeline Wavestation did this. It was PC based. Don't know if they still make them.

They do. http://www.waveframe.com/

Philip Perkins

[Berolzheimer]

There is the "file comments" field in the digibase (workspace) window. pretty basic but it's something.

[Sound Chaser]

Have you used DV tool kit 2 for Pro Tools? It is supposed to be specifically designed for film sound for PT on the Avid system. It is an add on which requires PT LE as a minimum base to expand on. The reason I'm mentioning it is because I am thinking of getting it and would appreciate any comments by people who have used the system.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Sound Chaser

Have you used DV tool kit 2 for Pro Tools? It is supposed to be specifically designed for film sound for PT on the Avid system. It is an add on which requires PT LE as a minimum base to expand on. The reason I'm mentioning it is because I am thinking of getting it and would appreciate any comments by people who have used the system.

I can only comment on the use of DVTK on an PTLE system, not as an Avid add-on, althought I'm pretty sure they would function the same way. DVTK is what really makes PTLE work for audio post at all. It's price is kind of out of proportion to what just the basic MBox PLTLE systems cost, but once you look at what it adds to the system then you can get your mind around the costs. It's possible to do audio post w/o the DVTK stuff, but it is a lot more efficient with it. TC operations, TC ruler, 48 tracks, some plugs etc. You may disagree w/ Digi's pricing structure, but for what compared to a TDM PT system isn't a lot of money you can do a great deal of real work with it.

Philip Perkins CAS

[smsjr]

I use PTLE with DV Toolkit 2 and as Philip mentions, it really does take PTLE up a notch when doing post work. You get OMF/AAF import, some automatiion features (snapshot), Vocalign for syncing up ADR, TL Space, DINR, and a version of Virtual Katy. So, yes it is expensive, but really is critical for people doing post work.

Steve

[Henchman]

You don't need to get the DV Toolkit.
Just buy the Academic version of PT's M-Powered.
It's $150,- and has the stuff DVtoolkit has.

[gsilbers]

interesting to see more poeple doing dialog editing. i do it but we almost, rarley, never do ADR. we call it restoration .. e. just a joke. the production tracks are so bad we basically do restoration.

so i do a ton of dialog editing.a show a day sometimes2 in a good day when the set recorders decided IT IS a good idea to stop a scene when a plane is flying by!!

but we dont catalog the scenes or anything. so im interested to see a little more of what u do that u need to catalog the scene and such. I know you need it for when u do ADR but that money wagon never came for us.

so what i do is take out the crappy extra audio and create fades so there is no sudden shift in noise/ambience. so imagine one scene with a plane passing by during dialog and then another take during the same dialog, there is almost no noise from the mic. then another caracter comes in yelling and there is more noise than actual screem, to later come bac to the caracter with the plane flying by.

also take out wierd sounds and production sfx from the production track.


the impressive part is that the shows after mixing sound amazing when they air.

i came from a music background and only have done dialog editing for these 4 shows which i already took u thorugh the process. can someone else care to share what else is involved in DIA editing for different tV and film.?

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Henchman

You don't need to get the DV Toolkit.
Just buy the Academic version of PT's M-Powered.
It's $150,- and has the stuff DVtoolkit has.

Mark-

Thanks for posting that Academic discount, that should be very helpful to a lot of people...

cheers!

charles maynes

Your M-Powered form looks cool too!

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Mark-

Thanks for posting that Academic discount, that should be very helpful to a lot of people...

cheers!

charles maynes

Your M-Powered form looks cool too!

No problem.
I was lucky. I found a vendor on Ebay selling a 5 person Academic labpack for $500,-. So I bought it and sold the other 4 copies or $100,- each. So we all paid $100,- for our copies.

[Darat]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Henchman
You don't need to get the DV Toolkit.
Just buy the Academic version of PT's M-Powered.
It's $150,- and has the stuff DVtoolkit has.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Henchman are you serious about this? Im looking to buy the Dvtool kit2....

This will work just as good?

kind Regards,

Matty

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Darat

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Henchman
You don't need to get the DV Toolkit.
Just buy the Academic version of PT's M-Powered.
It's $150,- and has the stuff DVtoolkit has.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Henchman are you serious about this? Im looking to buy the Dvtool kit2....

This will work just as good?

kind Regards,

Matty

I've got the Academic version, and have Proper SMPTE timecode in the timeline, and OMF import and export options.
You don't get the 48 tracks but who cares.

mark

[smsjr]

Hmm. What is M-Audio (Avid's) policy on Academic software? Can they be used in commercial ventures?

The 48 tracks has been a big help, although I still wish LE didn't limit track count and like other apps, let you run as many tracks as your computer can handle. But 48 is a decent number for doing the kinds of work I do when I'm working in LE as opposed to HD.

[philper]

What's the deal on tech support for the Academic M-Power versions of PT? Is it the same as the regular PTLE (re phone+email support)?

Philip Perkins

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by philper

What's the deal on tech support for the Academic M-Power versions of PT? Is it the same as the regular PTLE (re phone+email support)?

Philip Perkins

That's what the DUC is for.
Quite frankly, I've never needed tech support for anyting I'e used.
If the answers not o the net soemwhere. Then chances are, ther'es no answer.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Henchman

That's what the DUC is for.
Quite frankly, I've never needed tech support for anyting I'e used.
If the answers not o the net soemwhere. Then chances are, ther'es no answer.

That may be true, but in running a business I sometimes need an answer to a tech problem faster than doing a web search....

Philip Perkins

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by philper

That may be true, but in running a business I sometimes need an answer to a tech problem faster than doing a web search....

Philip Perkins

Except you'll probably have more luck gettign the answer quicker on the net.

Anyay, yes, you still get tech support.

[edit machine]

Originally Posted by Henchman

You don't need to get the DV Toolkit.
Just buy the Academic version of PT's M-Powered.
It's $150,- and has the stuff DVtoolkit has.

wait, really? the academic version of PT's M-Powered has the same frame rate grid that the DV toolkit gives to PT's LE? because there is no good way to edit dialogue without the grid...

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by edit machine

wait, really? the academic version of PT's M-Powered has the same frame rate grid that the DV toolkit gives to PT's LE? because there is no good way to edit dialogue without the grid...

editing dialog with a Grid? thats interesting... we are talking film right? not music.
care to explain why grid mode on dialog editing?

i know LE wont give u timecode unless u have the toolkit but the work around is to get a TDM template that has timecode and then in LE it will show TC under the main counter. not the best but its a work around

[starcrash13]

because there is no good way to edit dialogue without the grid...

Cut dialogue in grid mode? That's unorthodox. Grid mode is good for cutting backgrounds quickly. Everything else, I need to get between the grid lines.

[minister]

Originally Posted by edit machine

...because there is no good way to edit dialogue without the grid...

vocals?

or film/video dialog?

[Henchman]

I tink he means proepr timecode time.
I find it very usefull when trying to synch some ADR or an Alt and lining it up with a lipsmack etc.

[edit machine]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

editing dialog with a Grid? thats interesting... we are talking film right? not music.
care to explain why grid mode on dialog editing?

i know LE wont give u timecode unless u have the toolkit but the work around is to get a TDM template that has timecode and then in LE it will show TC under the main counter. not the best but its a work around

because you need the proper timecode grid to make your fades between scenes. Dialogue editing is not just fixing little problems with the actual speech, but also fixing / extending & fading the tone between different shots within scenes and making sure you have transparant fades on the tones between scenes.

[edit machine]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

Cut dialogue in grid mode? That's unorthodox. Grid mode is good for cutting backgrounds quickly. Everything else, I need to get between the grid lines.

you need both, slip mode for little problems, timecode grid to line up your tone fades to the cuts.

[edit machine]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

editing dialog with a Grid? thats interesting... we are talking film right? not music.
care to explain why grid mode on dialog editing?

i know LE wont give u timecode unless u have the toolkit but the work around is to get a TDM template that has timecode and then in LE it will show TC under the main counter. not the best but its a work around

the probem with that workaround is that it never works for long, sometimes you can get the session home to a non dv toolkit L.e and the grid from tdm will still be there, but is disapears after a few save and re-opens.

However, there is one real workaround i will share, you go to a tdm system, set the grid to whatever the specific code for the project is (lets say 29.97 drop) then you make a blank region the length of the project, set the nudge to 1 frame, and nudge / seperate all the way through the timeline. then you have at least one track that follows the proper timecode grid and you can use it as a frame reference on a non dv toolkit l.e system.... a warning: dont' try to do this to one minute of the timeline and then paste it out, it won't work, because not all frames are the exact same length.

[Henchman]

I have a template on my mpowered website you can download with the timecode set to SMPTE.
It's a permanent download. So if you ever need it, it's there.