ADR Studio Software

[ofsaints]

HI All,

First off, great to see a Post Forum here.

I'm shopping for an ADR Studio software that works well with Protools HD on a MAC G5 OSX. I'm familiar with Gallery's ADR Studio but I'm hoping to find something more affordable. Gallery is going for 1800 clams!

Thanks,
Charlie

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by ofsaints

HI All,

First off, great to see a Post Forum here.

I'm shopping for an ADR Studio software that works well with Protools HD on a MAC G5 OSX. I'm familiar with Gallery's ADR Studio but I'm hoping to find something more affordable. Gallery is going for 1800 clams!

Thanks,
Charlie

I don't know of a cheaper option that covers all the bases, but here are some hardware and software items that can be useful in an ADR setting. They may not be the solution for your situation, but they're on topic.

The Soundmaster ION. The go-to box on Hollywood stages right now. Awesome. Does everything but negotiate your foreign licensing. Bob can call in and program it remote.
http://www.soundmaster.com/index.html

The sr-8000 from Brainstorm.
http://www.brainstormtime.com/sr8000.php

Also, though Timeline/Vista is no longer in business, a couple Lynx modules and a KCU controller used to be common on stages, and may be found cheap these days.


Some software links:

ADR Studio (for those unfamiliar) can be found under the products page here:
http://www.gallery.co.uk/

And check out:
http://www.virtualvtr.com/vtrpro.html

[ofsaints]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the info but Im looking for SOFTWARE alternatives to Gallery ADR Studio to be used mostly for VO work.

[minister]

Originally Posted by ofsaints

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the info but Im looking for SOFTWARE alternatives to Gallery ADR Studio to be used mostly for VO work.

your question is a little confusing.....

are you doing DIALOGUE REPLACEMENT (sync)?

or VOICE OVER (not really sync)?

you can do ADR with NO software attachements other than your DAW. prepare a movie with count down beeps and punch in after that. after some practice, some actors get the hang of it.


if you are doing VO work, why the ADR software?

problem is with ADR software packages, they are esspensive.......you wont find something 'affordable', meaning $300. just prep the files yourself.

VOICEQ is a GREAT and FAST package, but eeets 'sspensive...

http://www.voiceq.com/index.php?opti...d=23&Itemid=42

here is another, dubstudio, PC only, but expensive

http://www.dubstudio.com/english/products.htm

the same concept as rythmoband projector that uses a horizontal transparent 35mm film, but in a software.

[Geert van den Berg]

Personally I never really understood ADR software.

I mean if you need to index your files because you're recording voices for a game I can see the need for additional software, but if you ADR and you have the location dialogue in the editor, why not just make a couple of tracks and then do takes and maybe work out some codes as how to mark the good takes.

Also I don't necessarily see the need for a countdown, you can use the timecode for that too... maybe only usefull if you got someone with a very bad timing problem...

[minister]

ADR software can help especially when you have a LARGE amount of cues to do and also if the actors are inexperienced. the count down beeps allow them to know when to come in, so you are not chasing things and they can feel the rhythm. now, you don't need ADR software to have a clip of countdown beeps.

also, the ADR software offers streamers as a visual cue and actual line text. VoiceQ allows you to stretch and condense text so you DON'T have audio that the actor has to match. this is also useful for FOLEY cues. some people watch better than match audio.

having a 2 hour film that is 60% ADR would be a nightmare in DAW alone!

[Geert van den Berg]

I see your standpoint, and understand a bit what the software does, but I think I'd have to see it in action to see any extra benefits. If there are, please tell me.

Probably it's because over here no movies are being made where 60% is being replaced and for the occassional line you don't need any extra software.

I say just make 5 or 6 tracks, throw away the really bad takes on the spot and keep the 5 or 6 good ones and mark them or put them in order of preference on the tracks in agreement with the director. This also makes editting and sorting them out much easier and faster.

We do a lot of foreign language adaptions in Dutch and then the dialogue is replaced 100%, we only use a script and timecode to do this and the only thing that is required is a talented actor who has good timing... which is offcourse not always the case, but we can always make something of it.

[minister]

i completely agree with you. it is a matter of scale. for a few lines, it is needless excess. i personally wouldn't do it for 6-12 lines of ADR. (i don't know exactly what the original poster is trying to do.)

adaptations and translated dubbing is different. the timing has to be good, but no spot on.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by minister

adaptations and translated dubbing is different. the timing has to be good, but no spot on.

True, though the goal is to make it as spot on as possible offcourse!

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by ofsaints

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the info but Im looking for SOFTWARE alternatives to Gallery ADR Studio to be used mostly for VO work.

I understood, and warned that my links were not really solutions for you, but rather additional on-topic discussion. Sorry I didn't have more options for you. Also, is it VO or ADR? I don't think you don't really need a package like that if it's just VO, do you?

As for ADR packages in general (referring to other posts in the thread), you can set up beeps as mentioned in the edit window, and then use loop record which lets the talent do it over and over, recording each pass in sync in essentially a playlist that you can then save the good takes from.

However, in a real dedicated ADR situation, and if it's a high-end movie with lots of cues, it's better to have something to help you keep track, move things along quickly (an extra couple minutes per cue when doing a couple hundred is a lot of wasted time and money), not have to cut and paste beeps, and also have options for either beeps, on-screen streamers, or multiple lights (each one lights succesively where the beeps would normally be). It's not acceptable to tell talent that their preference is invalid, or they only need one of these options if they are inexperienced.

That's like telling your music client that they only need one side of the headphones to work, or that they don't need to lay a scratch vocal because a real band has the arrangement memorized. You expect more from the high-end, professional shops. The client needs whatever makes them comfortable enough to concentrate on the performance instead of the mechanics. Getting a good performance is the toughest part of ADR. It can be hard for an actor to get back into the emotion of a scene weeks after principal photography, in a little booth instead of on location, with no other actors to interact with, and no acting lead-up. Sure, you can mechanically do it with less, but if this is bread and butter work for you, it pays to have your bases covered.

[ofsaints]

Hi all,

The reason I am looking into the ADR software is for a couple of reasons.

1. the ease of naming a large quantity of audio files from a spreadsheet, excel doc, etc
2. the beeps (some clients like the beeps)
3. When I do these sessions in Protools it requires a lot of steps for each audio file. More of this work has been coming through our doors lately.

I know there is an easier way to record 300 prompts with a very specific naming convention. I want Protools compatibility for my processing.

I appreciate all your insight. Looks like I might have to just bite the bullet and buy the Gallery ADR software, it seems really cool.

[starcrash13]

I know there is an easier way to record 300 prompts with a very specific naming convention. I want Protools compatibility for my processing.

One handy trick is to use Quickeys to quickly rename the track which will name the file/region. There are loads of different ways you can program the Quickeys macros to work with your particular workflow. If you are using region cues, you can have your Quickey automatically copy the name of your cue region and paste it into the track name. Then when you hit record, the new region and file will be named accordingly. Or, if you use markers for your cues you can do the auto copy/ paste routine there also. Would this help you at all? I use Quickeys for all kinds of things. It's great.

[smsjr]

Pascal, I'm one of those paranoid guys who never adds things to their system unless I've got the seal of approval from those who have tested extensively. So, any conflicts you've experienced with Quickeys that would affect stability of Pro Tools? I could certainly think of a million things I'd love to automate, but I'm sometimes nervous about what the trade off could be.

Steve

[starcrash13]

Quickeys is about the most benign thing you can add to your computer. It doesn't actually interact with PT other than to activate keystrokes and menu commands. The post facility where I usually work has about 80+ workstations with Quickeys installed. They also use it on the foley stage.

It's a real lifesaver for spotting foley. It saves me from a crapload of typing. I have a Quickey for each primary character. I create a blank region, highlight the region, hit my Quickey, and voila. It automates Cmd-Shft-R, types "LUIGI^LeathShoes^FS", and OK. Or, say I want to tag 20 regions with the same cue. I highlight a region, hit Cntrl-F11 which makes Quickeys automate Cmd-Shft-R, copy text, OK. Then go to my next region, highlight, Cntrl-F12 which is my Quickey for Cmd-Shft-R, paste text, OK.

I've seen people do some pretty cool stuff wtih it. One guy has it set up so he hits the ESC key, says "iTunes", or one of a bazillion other things he programmed, into a microphone and iTunes launches and starts playing.

[smsjr]

okay, thanks for the tips on this. That sounds really cool, and from what you're saying, very harmless. I'll look into getting it.

Steve

[ofsaints]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

One handy trick is to use Quickeys .

I installed the 30 day trial of quick keys over the holidays and my trial ran out before i got it to work.LOL. I'll have to give it another shot. Is it Mac & PC compatible?

[squidsquad]

We use a combination of Pro Tools, QuicKeys and Filemaker for ADR.

A Filemaker database is created with all the relevant info in, e.g. Character, Dialogue, Timecode in point, Cue length, etc. etc.

Then using QuicKeys to communicate between Pro Tools and Filemaker, we can spot new cues from ProTools into the database, respot cues in the database when a new cut comes through, play specific cues in Pro Tools by selecting them in Filemaker, create a Pro Tools session for recording ADR with pips, streamer, and markers named for each cue from a found set in Filemaker.

There are a heap other bits and pieces that take place between the three programs, that was just off the top of my head. The refining and rewriting of the QuicKeys shortcuts, and tweaking of the database is an ongoing process, but so far, it is such a timesaver.

[minister]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

One handy trick is to use Quickeys to quickly rename the track which will name the file/region. There are loads of different ways you can program the Quickeys macros to work with your particular workflow. If you are using region cues, you can have your Quickey automatically copy the name of your cue region and paste it into the track name. Then when you hit record, the new region and file will be named accordingly. Or, if you use markers for your cues you can do the auto copy/ paste routine there also. Would this help you at all? I use Quickeys for all kinds of things. It's great.

there is also the 'Rename' and "Auto Rename' functions in the region bin. very useful with phone prompots and ADR lines. remember you can sort your region bin any number of ways....

many ways to skin a cat with the tools you already have.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by squidsquad

We use a combination of Pro Tools, QuicKeys and Filemaker for ADR.

Very interesting approach!

So Quickkeys places markers in PT according to the timecodes from the database?

Do you have a lot of prep work before a session starts?

I have used QK's in the past, but I think I need to get a new copy!

[squidsquad]

Not only does it place the markers, it names them according to scene number, character abbreviation, and cue number (taking that information from Filemaker as well), so that when you're recording the cue, copying the marker name into the clipboard means you can rename each audio file as it's recorded appending the take number.

I'm working on integrating more applescript stuff into the Quickeys at the moment to streamline the process even further. I hope to have this next stage ironed out by the time this project finishes, so I can utilise it on the next project.

[Mattrix]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

True, though the goal is to make it as spot on as possible offcourse!

Hi, for 2 years i have been a free-lance engineer for Kiwa productions , Rhonda Kite, and David Kite are the directors and the developers of voiceQ. The main benifits i have found with ADR using VQ as apposed to the beep system, is with fresh voiceover artists can concentrate on there acting, language translator director can see whether the translated lines are to long or short, and can be changed right there and then. This can be easily changed as the voiceover artists may be a slow reader and cannot finish the line in time.
voiceQ easily intergrates with protools on the same MAC system, though there is abit of juggling between director and engineer to do with both trying to use there program at the same time= Engineer using protools - director using VQ. When the translation is properly translated and detected, its a matter of how fast the engineer can move from loop to loop trying to keep up with the voicover artist especially at 160+ loops per hour!

try the 30 day trial

Getting it spot on is a team effort from the translation, the detection, the voiceover artist, director, engineer, when each doing there job, the voiceover editor tends to drop off to sleep allot, when he can not find anything to shift exp/comp?

http://www.voiceq.com/index.php?opti...d=23&Itemid=42

Matt

[imakeit]

If you are charged with doing small quantities of ADR then stick with what works best for you eg. PT's 3 beaps for cueing your Actors, paper scripts, paper check sheets for managing takes... However, if you do alot or will do alot of ADR then it makes sense to invest in solutions that will be of most benefit, have a short ROI period and fit seemlessly into your current workflow with minimal disruption. Having said that there's always compromise in introducing changes into your current processes (eg. Director, Actors etc have their own preferences). It's always best that when you do select a product that you get their buy in otherwise it will end up on the shelf.

Cueing Actors, Voices (V/0), Loop Groups etc, especially those that are new to ADR or just plain hate it can send Engineer's greyer and quicker than anticipated. VoiceQ ADR is a cueing application worth considering as part of your PT Rig. I suggest you download the 30-day full version first and trial it with your production crew (or wait for the latest version due out on March, 20th). If you and the team like it then you've got the latest ADR capability that you can promote as part of your studio arsenal of tools. Your then just a click away from adding Foreign Versioning to your service offerings.

Oh ... and yes, ADR software can be expensive BUT you'll be surprised on the quick return on investment. Talk with the guys at VoiceQ as I'm sure they'll give you a great deal ... If your going to NAB next month there's huge special discounts on offer at the booth (AVID Developer Community Area - Sl1413L). Hope this helps with your selection...

[ofsaints]

All this information has been very helpful. Thank you all very much.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Mattrix

Hi, for 2 years i have been a free-lance engineer for Kiwa productions , Rhonda Kite, and David Kite are the directors and the developers of voiceQ. The main benifits i have found with ADR using VQ as apposed to the beep system, is with fresh voiceover artists can concentrate on there acting, language translator director can see whether the translated lines are to long or short, and can be changed right there and then. This can be easily changed as the voiceover artists may be a slow reader and cannot finish the line in time.
voiceQ easily intergrates with protools on the same MAC system, though there is abit of juggling between director and engineer to do with both trying to use there program at the same time= Engineer using protools - director using VQ. When the translation is properly translated and detected, its a matter of how fast the engineer can move from loop to loop trying to keep up with the voicover artist especially at 160+ loops per hour!

Funny that you mention this system, I have been playing around a little with the demo and currently we have another system on trial.

I found the Voice Q demo a bit fiddly. I tried to create some lines on the spot, without importing a script file, since I don't have the script application and it seemed that importing a script doesn't work in the demo? I read about the format in the manual, but creating a txt file with a layout following the manual also didn't work.

Entering the lines manually was do-able but not so easy. And I found it sometimes drifted out of sync, when I started PT and then when I restarted again, the sync would be different again. I checked if all the MIDI settings were correct, and I think they were.

Also I find the scrolling text not so easy on the eyes. Currently we have a system with fixed text (maybe this is also possible with Voice Q), this is much more like a regular script, though still a problem with longer lines. With some very fast actors we are now able to let them do a whole page of a paper script when they are familiar with the character. Offcouse we still have to nudge the timing a little sometimes, but some guys are really good and tight with their sync. Also cutting the lines up in too many pieces can make the acting sounding fragmented, offcourse we do punch in a lot to make the sync tighter.

160+ loops per hour? That's a lot, we do about 50-60, but keep in mind that some of those are very long sentences and they are not split up in the script to fit underneath on a screen. Also we edit on the spot, I don't know how this is done where you are. Some countries have a seperate edit session afterwards (we do have this for larger movies offcourse, but not for series), but we find this to be inconvenient. Editting nowadays can be done pretty fast on a DAW and then you can dirently see if the outcome is good or needs an extra take.

I did like Voice Q a bit. But I would much prefer some sort of system that inserted the lines over a videodisplay like a timecode inserter. This way you can keep the video in PT (and keep using the canopus) and have a slightly better picture sync, though starting and restarting can also have a slight difference when the picture is PT, it might need some time get in sync or to readjust to movie offset needed in PT by the canopus.

Also we like to have the director being able to change the lines without interfering with the PT systems, but we do want the ADR/dubbing system to keep syncing to PT and thus displaying all the lines for a character when it is running.

And with a written script an actor can read in the script lines of other characters to see what the story is about when they get confused. Especially when we're dubbing one of the first characters of an episode we might not now what the episode is about yet. The synopsis is there, but you have no idea how certain characters are going to react.

[Mattrix]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Funny that you mention this system, I have been playing around a little with the demo and currently we have another system on trial.

I found the Voice Q demo a bit fiddly. I tried to create some lines on the spot, without importing a script file, since I don't have the script application and it seemed that importing a script doesn't work in the demo? I read about the format in the manual, but creating a txt file with a layout following the manual also didn't work.

Entering the lines manually was do-able but not so easy. And I found it sometimes drifted out of sync, when I started PT and then when I restarted again, the sync would be different again. I checked if all the MIDI settings were correct, and I think they were.

Also I find the scrolling text not so easy on the eyes. Currently we have a system with fixed text (maybe this is also possible with Voice Q), this is much more like a regular script, though still a problem with longer lines. With some very fast actors we are now able to let them do a whole page of a paper script when they are familiar with the character. Offcouse we still have to nudge the timing a little sometimes, but some guys are really good and tight with their sync. Also cutting the lines up in too many pieces can make the acting sounding fragmented, offcourse we do punch in a lot to make the sync tighter.

160+ loops per hour? That's a lot, we do about 50-60, but keep in mind that some of those are very long sentences and they are not split up in the script to fit underneath on a screen. Also we edit on the spot, I don't know how this is done where you are. Some countries have a seperate edit session afterwards (we do have this for larger movies offcourse, but not for series), but we find this to be inconvenient. Editting nowadays can be done pretty fast on a DAW and then you can dirently see if the outcome is good or needs an extra take.

I did like Voice Q a bit. But I would much prefer some sort of system that inserted the lines over a videodisplay like a timecode inserter. This way you can keep the video in PT (and keep using the canopus) and have a slightly better picture sync, though starting and restarting can also have a slight difference when the picture is PT, it might need some time get in sync or to readjust to movie offset needed in PT by the canopus.

Also we like to have the director being able to change the lines without interfering with the PT systems, but we do want the ADR/dubbing system to keep syncing to PT and thus displaying all the lines for a character when it is running.

And with a written script an actor can read in the script lines of other characters to see what the story is about when they get confused. Especially when we're dubbing one of the first characters of an episode we might not now what the episode is about yet. The synopsis is there, but you have no idea how certain characters are going to react.

Hi Geert like with most programs there are always bugs, VQs development has been going for a long time but adding knew features and working out bugs has been slow dew to money restraints, I have helped in some way in the development of knew features in VQ and identifying bugs, I have always been straight up with them and my list of changes and features have always been to better VQ and even look at moving away from midi-time code and possibly brought in as a plug-in via re-wire.
I have used the latest demo on my Mac it’s a duel 1Ghz, 1.5Gb ram, VQ did drift in and out of time, in saying that I know that it works well when all the requirements are met that’s all the latest up-dates of Tiger, pro-tools 7.0, & QuickTime. Over the two years I have worked with VQ there has been probably 3 knew version’s each time that was loaded up, we also needed to up-date, so check to make sure you have all the required up-dates, I never got around to doing that because I am on DAIL-UP to slow!

VQ can work on separate Mac systems though it is based on MTC triggering, but at least the director can change lines, I believe there’s a PDF that covers that on there web-site.
I have worked with it only being on one Mac system, duel monitors, duel keyboards and mouse, all that the director needs to be concerned with is seeing the line whether there are too many words or not enough, and the translation is carrying the story on from line to line, the visual representation becomes the key feature here; not enough words [ H ___ E__ L L __ O __ J ___ O H ____ N] to many words [hlojhn], VQ can also have multiple lines running at any place on the screen 10% at the bottom 90% at the top and different color options for each character. So the voiceover can see previous lines and lines following.
The latest version of VQ don’t quote me on this supposed to have fixed the shakiness of words as the words scroll across in stand alone mode I was told it was a MTC issue having gaps VQ was trying to decide where to place the words back one thus the shaking on screen. When VQ is slaved to pro-tools with smooth scrolling on, it is clear and smooth.

160 loops? I know everyone I told said the same thing “anyone can do that when there are gasps, laughs” which are considered a loop each, so I opened the VQ session and showed them the lines, at least a 100 of them where long lines with pauses. How we make it work is the engineer controls pro-tools and VQ so that both flow together smoothly, as soon as the director once to make changes, the engineer uses the digital desk to move around pro-tools, once the line is changed the engineer takes back control of both programs, all the time the engineer is moving back in forwards between pro-tools and VQ moving down through the loops. I myself would quickly look at the next sentience or loop in VQ shift the words in the bottom window to create gaps for the pauses,
grab the starting time-code from VQ copy and paste it into pro-tools, so the next loops starting point is ready straight after the previous line is finished, this process is a huge time saver!
In this case the translation was excellent if any changes was to add or takeaway a word, (the cartoon was called INUK and the character was Inuk) the voiceover artist had the ability to understand the line and memories the line, interesting though it got to the point that we got so focused on the character it became easy to predict what was going on by looking at the preview line, and we would just hit record without running the line down 99% we where in fits of laughter for getting it right. Normally new voiceovers who never even been in a studio, 30 – 40 loops an hour, core voiceover team between 50 – 120 loops an hour, yeah 120 loops was the previous record.

But loops that are 5 mins long like opening narration or songs well that’s a different beast all together and long lines should be broken down into easy workable lines, narration can be following the pictures so lines broken down per scene, & songs broken down to intro, verse, chorus etc.

I hope you get that demo worken, send VQ an email, Dave (imakeit) may also answer here hopefully.


Cheers Matt