13th December 2011
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#1 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,120
Thread Starter  | Even If SOPA Passes, It Won't Stop Piracy
I haven't really participated much in the piracy conversations, but regardless of the privacy and civil rights concerns, I fail to see how SOPA will stop piracy. Anyone with knowledge of how torrents and rapidshare, as well as the free TV sites work, can see how it just won't work. They are constantly changing sites, working in multiple countries, and rarely does anyone even try to encrypt transmissions because the amount of info changing hands is so overwhelming that they can barely do anything about it, even un-encrypted.
So let's say it passes, and a new policing agency pops up to enforce this. There have been many debates as to how much power they would have, and how the bill may be legally interpreted. Rarely do things turn out as extreme as one side or the other states, but for the sake of argument, let's say they can just immediately know, look at what you're downloading, shut it down, and identify your location if they see something protected (not likely).
How long do you think it will be before someone devises a way to mask the data? Actually, I'm certain it already exists. Encrypting data between peers on a torrent is a simple task, no doubt. Ok, so what if some agent jumps on and extracts the encryption somehow? How long do you think it will be before the hackers figure out a way to prevent them from doing so?
I'm not gonna pretend like I fully understand the tech, but regardless, recent history has consistently shown that hackers are always one step ahead of experts/authorities on everything due to their vast numbers and lack of legality.
Sure, maybe you'd slow piracy in the US only at first, and they'd probably try to make a few high-profile examples like they did back in the 90s by suing some chick who downloaded some songs for millions. You may have some scared people, but the reality is, you'd probably end up pissing off a bunch of kids enough to make them download more.
So after a new bill is passed, a new agency created to spend tax dollars, and a load of time spent by who knows how many people, what do you end up with? A bill that does very little to stop the problem it was created to address. On top of that, there's a multitude of ways this law could be abused depending upon who's in charge, and what their motives are.
I can see a lot of you are hurting from piracy, and I wish I could magically end it for all of you, but the reality is that any politician who claims their legislation has the power to end piracy probably doesn't understand the technology. Half of these clowns probably barely know how to use a word processor. The way I see it, given the capabilities of the hacker communities, the only way we could stop it is to pass laws that are completely unconstitutional. And I simply do not have any desire to do so.
I'm curious, though, maybe there's something I missed, anyone have any suggestion as to how this may actually work? Because I simply don't see how.
Please don't give me the "we have to try something" reasoning. That is a really good way to end up with horrible laws.
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13th December 2011
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#2 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Mar 2008 Location: the big rack
Posts: 11,256
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who said it would STOP piracy, all that SOPA will do is manage the crime into acceptable limits like any other law does. We have laws against everything from speeding to murder, and none of those have been STOPPED either...
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13th December 2011
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#3 | | Gear Guru
Joined: May 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA.
Posts: 11,668
| Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarson  I haven't really participated much in the piracy conversations | Or read much of the forum, obviously. Quote: |
but regardless of the privacy and civil rights concerns, I fail to see how SOPA will stop piracy.
| Or you would know that nobody here thinks that piracy can be stopped.
What is possible is that piracy can be reduced significantly, to the point where it's no longer killing the industry and preventing the development of new, interesting acts as it currently is.
The way that this can happen is cracking down on the distributors of pirate material - the sites and uploaders - so as to make it somewhat more difficult for the average person to download pirated material.
SOPA is an excellent tool for this. It may not be the ONLY tool, but it is a needed tool.
If you'd bother reading the other SOPA related threads here you'd learn that there actually are no privacy or censorship concerns, all that noise is simply propaganda disseminated by the pro-piracy and big tech people. I'm not going to rehash all that here, the threads are available for you to read.
Oh, and in case you were wondering, I have an INTIMATE knowledge of how Bittorrent operates.
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13th December 2011
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#4 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jan 2004 Location: out in the dirt.
Posts: 15,766
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since I am new to this, and had the greatest reservations about supporting the act on free speech principal, allow me to give you my understanding of it-
First- It will not effect US sites anymore than they are already prosecuted today.
Second- The DMCA Safe Harbor provisions are intact with the act.
Third- The Act principally effects non-US sites which are proven to principally traffic in Copyright Infringed materials by denying them Payments from US consumers and by denying them monies they might receive in Ad revenues and having their sites blocked by US ISPs.
Fourth- It offers defined penalties in false accusations by requiring the accuser to pay all legal costs for the one who is accused of IP theft.
If you can show where the Internet is going to be broken, and Arab Spring Dissenters will not be able to tweet about the government crack downs, I simply have not seen it in the bill. And I spend a lot time following those movements. The language itself protects all those things as it sits.
Now why would those against the act be so worked up? Search Engines sell advertisement- If you dont believe me use google to find anything, and chances are the results page will be filled with ads, and paid web results- those Search Engines dont really care who it is that pays them- just as long as its someone- and there is never enough "someones" If infringing sites are blocked, they have less results to show you- and since their revenue is based on showing you sites to go to- their revenue is indeed affected. Especially when we consider that millions of people use those resources daily. Its how Google and Yahoo have become so well to do.
Are those sites going to be crushed? no- they arent-they are still out there- but think of SOPA as being a new iron gate keeping thugs out of your life....
They are also being denied revenue that payment processors might forward to them via their illegal actions and support-
The next big complaint is- 'but what if my innocent blog gets a pirate link put on it?' The Law very clearly states that if a complaint is filed- like- JayZ's HipHop Heaven has a link for PT10HD[k] on it- the site holder gets a letter demanding the item be removed. If the site owner complies, they are cool. It is a requirement of reasonable action- not having to police your site constantly. The penalties only really come into play for chronic offenders and sites dedicated to Copyright infringement. Those are pretty obvious, and basically the same procedure happens- a demand to remove all questionable materials or further action will be taken- ultimately blockage and fines. There is also an appeal vehicle which migtht determine the guilt and damages.
I am a newcomer here, so I will invite those more knowledgeable on the act to correct anything I misrepresented....
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13th December 2011
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2009 Location: State of Insomnia, sleepless USA
Posts: 2,178
| Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarson ... let's say they can just immediately know, look at what you're downloading, shut it down, and identify your location if they see something protected (not likely).
How long do you think it will be before someone devises a way to mask the data? Actually, I'm certain it already exists. Encrypting data between peers on a torrent is a simple task, no doubt. Ok, so what if some agent jumps on and extracts the encryption somehow? How long do you think it will be before the hackers figure out a way to prevent them from doing so?
... | This Bill has nothing to do with the End-User. It's about foreign sites like The Pirate Bay and similar. They will not be looking at your data (err.. anymore than they already do..)
If it's easy for the end-user to FIND these sites (defined as 'sites with no other significant purpose other than to facilitate infringment'), than it is equally easy for copyright holders and law enforcement to see them as well.
This Bill blocks LINKS to and the Domain from resolving... ie, you type in thepiratebay into your browser, and it won't connect ( will probably go to a page that says why the site is blocked). as well, it blocks US credit card payment to these criminals. That's about it...
If you have more questions regarding the Bill, i'd advise you to first read this .pdf as it answers alot of questions/criticisms/ and gets everyone on an equal footing to discuss the actual meat of the Legislation: http://www.itif.org/files/2011-pipa-...nd-critics.pdf
Read that ^ and then we'll talk.
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