Register of Copyrights: without SOPA, copyright "will ultimately fail"

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Just because someone releases a recording doesnt entitle them to it being profitable.

I don't think anyone has said this, nor suggested or implied such nonsense.

Being a successful artist in most endeavors is about as hard as becoming a pro athlete. It is not an entitlement. If you make stuff people like they will buy it-.

Right.
And many more will steal it too.

did piracy lose any of its bite when Napster and Limewire went down?

Yes, for a few weeks anyhow. It's pointless when there's tens of other sites offering the same stuff illegally for free. The only way is to take them all down (or, in the case of this Bill.. Block Them)

[chrisso]

The 'entitlement' point is uber, uber tired.
Without going back over it again, no one.....no one understands the lottery of earning a crust in the arts better than musicians (or maybe actors).
Unlike actors though, if a musician does work, they are likely never to be paid, just because of the entitlement exhibited by some music fans.
The current laws just aren't working, so it's time to look at simpler, quicker measures.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

I don't think anyone has said this, nor suggested or implied such nonsense.

see post 108

Right.
And many more will steal it too.

I will for the third time say, If your bedroom is on fire, closing the door is not a very effective way to deal with it.

Yes, for a few weeks anyhow. It's pointless when there's tens of other sites offering the same stuff illegally for free. The only way is to take them all down (or, in the case of this Bill.. Block Them)

Blocking them still allows 8/10ths of the worlds population the option of stealing them still-

I will for the forth time say that if your Bedroom is on fire, closing the door on it is not a very effective way to deal with it.


anyone who is serious about this bill should look beyond what it proposes to do beyond media piracy.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I will for the third time say, If your bedroom is on fire, closing the door is not a very effective way to deal with it.

But a couple of days ago you suggested a parental education program was the best solution.

[chrisso]

Post 108:

Originally Posted by rack gear

Not everyone will have hits, but why shouldn't every be entitled to make an extra few thousand a year, or 10 thousand a year, fairly without fearing piracy should they work hard enough or be lucky enough to have a hit?
......you are wrong, it is absolutely about artists rights. it's about getting paid fairly and not have one's work and labor stolen. artists are paid by label through both investments and royalties. artists are paid from direct sales. a fair and level playing field for all is essential for a free market economy, piracy disrupts the marketplace unfairly which is why in the most common sense it is illegal.

Charles, you haven't been on this piracy forum much.
It's an absolute given that the debate is about work that is consumed. To have to repeat it in every post is a nonsense.
There is not, nor will there ever be a call to pay musicians who's work is not consumed, whether that's a recording enjoyed, a software instrument used, or a session performance hired for.
If you work on a movie, your are entitled to be paid. If you are unemployed for a week, you aren't entitled to be paid. That's exactly the same state of affairs for musicians. Absolutely fine.
If you find a director has used all your custom designed sound on a second movie, without paying you or crediting you and without your permission, so they can avoid paying your fee, or the fee of any other sound designer, I assume you would be livid. This is what musicians face daily.

[charles maynes]

so- Does everyone go out and find their works on the pirate sites?

Have you found any in the US?, Have you contacted RIAA about it?

Have you had Cease and Desist letters drafted to the ISP's which carry the sites?


just curious about that....

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Post 108:



Charles, you haven't been on this piracy forum much.
It's an absolute given that the debate is about work that is consumed. To have to repeat it in every post is a nonsense.
There is not, nor will there ever be a call to pay musicians who's work is not consumed, whether that's a recording enjoyed, a software instrument used, or a session performance hired for.
If you work on a movie, your are entitled to be paid. If you are unemployed for a week, you aren't entitled to be paid. That's exactly the same state of affairs for musicians. Absolutely fine.
If you find a director has used all your custom designed sound on a second movie, without paying you or crediting you and without your permission, so they can avoid paying your fee, or the fee of any other sound designer, I assume you would be livid. This is what musicians face daily.

Chris, I have my sounds used everyday without permission and with out payment- welcome to my world-

The value I bring to a project is the judgement to make something new- sometimes that might encompass my work from other projects, and sometimes it might use work I have licensed in order to make the finished product.

As I have continued to say- and something which is not really handled well in this bill -

1- Cultural Shift- which does require parents.... My parents had a great saying that is totally germaine to the conversation- "Something for nothing is worth nothing". If people dont value art, and invest in it for their own enjoyment, then we as artists have only two ways to address it- blocking IP is not in and of itself going to affect the behavior of most of your offenders, they will simply make copies from their friends- much in the way that kids when I was younger made copies of albums onto Cassettes...

We can deny them the art- or we can accept that there are shitheads out there who can burn in hell. Either way, It doesnt affect us, because they werent going to pay for it anyway.

2- Defining piracy as a real crime, and treating those who pirate as criminals.
If we started viewing kids who pirate as the actual turds they are, and start treating them as such, the first point will take hold a lot quicker. THIS IS CLEARLY DEFINED IN EXISTING LAW.

3- Actively shutting down the pirate sites in their home countries. All it takes is money....
THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO DO. It must be pursued in Foreign courts by the parties directly affected.


again, the premise of the SOPA act (in the lesser domain of media piracy, vs corporate copywright control) is to essentially allow those ****ers to continue to operate and essentially closing the door to our bedroom which is on fire and going and watching TV while the house is consumed.... And frankly, it is disingenious to the small artist- it is geared to further empower those who can bring injunctive effort to the attention of the court. There is no special agent who is going to track the internet for Ray's Beatz, or Joe Bobs Metal Nightmare without formal complaint and evidence of offense. I am not sure how many here have actually engaged the American criminal justice system, but it is not fast, nor cheap, nor easy.


so, thanks but no thanks- I think we can do a whole lot better for the money spent.

On these personal accounts of how much has been lost due to piracy- I can say pretty confidently I have lost at least 50k in earnings from products I receive royalties on. I do know how many units have been sold, and I know of a number of users who have my work without paying for it.... That is the cost of doing business in the digital age I guess. That being said, I have not done badly on the return of those products, so I am inclined to put more stuff into the market place.

in that "personal stories" thread- out of 4 pages of posts, there were 2 GS members who were directly affected by it. I know you have been Chris, and I share your anger- however, your Internet isnt the one being potentially blocked, mine is.

did you know that the ACLU and Amnesty International were also against SOPA?
as well as these organizations?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/access.3cdn..._v0m6bxvv4.pdf

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

so- Does everyone go out and find their works on the pirate sites?

Have you found any in the US?, Have you contacted RIAA about it?

Have you had Cease and Desist letters drafted to the ISP's which carry the sites?

just curious about that....

Not to be obnoxious about it, but you even understand what the DMCA is, how it works, and why it is a failure?

That's the entire conversation we're having here...

Oh, and to answer your question, yes to all and with little success.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

yawn....

That's productive to the discussion.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

so the stats of BMI, and ASCAP making growing profits is fraud?

you might consider your parallel universe, because as one inside Hollywood, and who makes his living in Mass Media (Film, TV and Game development) I do feel confident in my knowledge of how piracy is affecting my industry.

whats sad is the lack of objective (and perhaps fantasy wishful) thinking shown by those supporting the act- but there was a time when I believed in Santa Claus and Unicorns too I guess.


somebody really needs to go something about this lying bastards too-

http://investors.wmg.com/phoenix.zht...137&highlight=
Warner Music Group Corp. Reports Results for the Fiscal Third Quarter Ended June 30, 2011
Digital Revenue Approaching Half of U.S. Recorded Music Revenue; Music Publishing Grows Digital, Synchronization and Performance Revenue
-- Total revenue of $686 million grew 5% from the prior-year quarter and
declined 1% on a constant-currency basis. THIS IS FROM 3 MONTHS......


-- Digital revenue was $203 million, or 30% of total revenue, up 13% from
$179 million in the prior-year quarter, and up 9% on a
constant-currency basis.



If this is going to be about going after pirate sites- I will once again say- if there is a fire in your bedroom, just closing the door is not a good substitute for extinguishing it.

Stats can be right, and you can still be wrong philosophically about copyright protections for artists.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo

Not to be obnoxious about it, but you even understand what the DMCA is, how it works, and why it is a failure?

That's the entire conversation we're having here...

Oh, and to answer your question, yes to all and with little success.

so, if you cant find your work... how is the wide expanse of illegal downloaders finding it?

Were your lawyers Cease and Desist letters observed? If not, did you file lawsuits?

thats what grownups do.

And yes, I am entirely aware of DMCA- it worked out great, didnt it?

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo

Stats can be right, and you can still be wrong philosophically about copyright protections for artists.

the fail is great there....

The stats are what they are- the mainstream channel for artist compensation- IE, BMI and ASCAP, are reporting significant earnings AND growth during a recession, and the Major Labels are hold the same relative profits, and WB is actually showing growth in their music wing....

Are the numbers lying here?

iTunes sells 10 BILLION songs.... the take for the artists there is approx 8 to 10 cents per song which would mean.... what, Artists seeing 125 million dollars revenue.... Apple hits 10 billion songs sold - but what's happening to music sales growth? | Technology | guardian.co.uk

What are we to expect here? obviously these are real sales channels right?

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

so, if you cant find your work... how is the wide expanse of illegal downloaders finding it?

Were your lawyers Cease and Desist letters observed? If not, did you file lawsuits?

thats what grownups do.

And yes, I am entirely aware of DMCA- it worked out great, didnt it?

You are thick. Find the work yes. Successfully remove no, because of DMCA failure Yes.

The conversation is about creating legislation that addresses the failures of the DMCA. That's what adults do.

Lawsuits are are impractical at this level of infringement with offending companies hiding behind broken legislation.

Do you really not understand what is really happening?

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

the fail is great there....

The stats are what they are- the mainstream channel for artist compensation- IE, BMI and ASCAP, are reporting significant earnings AND growth during a recession, and the Major Labels are hold the same relative profits, and WB is actually showing growth in their music wing....

Are the numbers lying here?

iTunes sells 10 BILLION songs.... the take for the artists there is approx 8 to 10 cents per song which would mean.... what, Artists seeing 125 million dollars revenue.... Apple hits 10 billion songs sold - but what's happening to music sales growth? | Technology | guardian.co.uk

What are we to expect here? obviously these are real sales channels right?

The numbers are down 60% in a decade on domestic record sales and there's no getting around it.

I expect to not have more of my work stolen than paid for - you can be coy, but you can't run from the numbers.

Sorry.

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

so, if you cant find your work... how is the wide expanse of illegal downloaders finding it?

Were your lawyers Cease and Desist letters observed? If not, did you file lawsuits?

thats what grownups do.

And yes, I am entirely aware of DMCA- it worked out great, didnt it?

See.. that's where i think your understanding of the whole situation is skewed.
YES most of us here have sent DMCA notices, cease and desist letters, filed suit against alot of these sites. Guess what? In response there's just *crickets chirping*

The DMCA (written pre-napster btw...) is an complete and utter failure.
All it does is protect the theives from prosecution, and makes us play a loosing and expensive game of wack-a-mole

IF a site actually takes something down when you send one, it's back up 2 minutes later... multiply this by infinity, and you'll quickly understand what the real problem is.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo

The numbers are down 60% in a decade on domestic record sales and there's no getting around it.

I expect to not have more of my work stolen than paid for - you can be coy, but you can't run from the numbers.

Sorry.

we are also in the deepest recession of modern times. and still BMI and ASCAP collected a combined 1.8 BILLION dollars in performing fees for last year.

If you dont want your work stolen just play live- its the only way to guarantee that outcome.

so what releases do you have an interest in that are getting stolen?

here are mine.... all of the CD libraries are over 10 years old- but I am still actually getting royalties from them which is actually pretty nice.
Charles Maynes Signature Series 50% OFF
Poke In The Ear, Volume One
Poke In The Ear Volume II
Poke in the Ear Audio CD
Poke in the Ear S1000
Textural Ambience

and my sounds here-http://www.sounddogs.com/extendedsearch.asp

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

See.. that's where i think your understanding of the whole situation is skewed.
YES most of us here have sent DMCA notices, cease and desist letters, filed suit against alot of these sites. Guess what? In response there's just *crickets chirping*

The DMCA (written pre-napster btw...) is an complete and utter failure.
All it does is protect the theives from prosecution, and makes us play a loosing and expensive game of wack-a-mole

IF a site actually takes something down when you send one, it's back up 2 minutes later... multiply this by infinity, and you'll quickly understand what the real problem is.

how can "crickets" chirp on a lawsuit? what did the judge say? I am really interested in this and if you can post the case number I would love to read the complaint and resolution.

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

how can "crickets" chirp on a lawsuit? what did the judge say? I am really interested in this and if you can post the case number I would love to read the complaint and resolution.

Well, you see.. the 'owners' of said sites are either located in Russia et al, or are "unknown", "can't be found" ect....

I'm not holding my breath, as i don't believe ANYONE has successfully brought suit to these people let alone little 'ol me...

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

Well, you see.. the 'owners' of said sites are either located in Russia et al, or are "unknown", "can't be found" ect....

I'm not holding my breath, as i don't believe ANYONE has successfully brought suit to these people let alone little 'ol me...

Well I guess you didnt notice that I said domestic sites....


Which is why the lawsuits have to happen in the country of origin.

which I already said was sort of the response that HAD to happen to impact the issue-

Those same pirate sites can pop up where-ever. Unless we block national access there will continue to be a problem- which is why this being addressed in the US is like putting a band-aid on a pointblank gunshot wound.

[charles maynes]

hmmm now MoveOn.org is against the SOPA....

MoveOn.org Political Action: Say NO to Internet Censorship


interesting....

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

hmmm now MoveOn.org is against the SOPA....

MoveOn.org Political Action: Say NO to Internet Censorship


interesting....

Right...
...if you want to play that game,
here's a (partial) list of Supporters:




*1-800 Contacts, Inc.
*1-800-PetMeds
*2b1 Inc
*3M Company
*ABRO Industries, Inc.
*Acushnet Company
*adidas America
*Adobe
*AFL-CIO
*Advanced Medical Technology Association (AdvaMed)
*Allen Russell Photography
*Alliance for Safe Online Pharmacies
*Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers
*Alliance of Visual Artists (AVA)
*Altria Client Services
*American Apparel and Footwear Association
*American Association of Independent Music (A2IM)
*American Board of Internal Medicine
*American Federation of Musicians
*American Gramaphone LLC
*American Made Alliance
*American Mental Health Counselors Association
*American Photographic Artists
*American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
*American Society of Media Photographers
*American Society of Picture Professionals
*American Watch Association
*Anatoly Pronin Photography
*Andrea Rugg Photography
*Anti-Counterfeiting and Piracy Initiative (ACAPI)
*Applied DNA Sciences
*Art Holeman Photography
*Association of American Publishers (AAP)
*Association of Equipment Manufacturers
*Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP)
*Association of Test Publishers
*AstraZeneca plc
*Australian Medical Council
*Autodesk, Inc.
*Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association
*Baker & Taylor Ent.
*Bay State Psychological Associates
*Beachbody, LLC
*Beam Global Spirits & Wine
*Blue Sky Studios, Inc.
*Bose Corporation
*Braasch Biotech LLC
*Brian Stevenson Photography
*Brigid Collins Family Support Center
*Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI)
*Burberry
*C. F. Martin & Co., Inc.
*Callaway Golf Company
*Cascade Designs Incorporated
*Caterpillar Inc.
*Caveon, LLC
*CBS Corporation
*Cengage Learning
*Center for Credentialing & Education
*Center Stage Photography
*CFA Institute
*Chanel USA
*Christopher Semmes Photography
*Church Music Publishers Association
*CMH Images
*Coach
*Coalition Against Counterfeiting and Piracy (CACP)
*Columbia Sportswear Company
*Comcast Corporation
*Commercial Photo Design
*Commercial Photographers International
*Comprehensive Adult Student Assessment System
*Concerned Women for America
*Consumer Healthcare Products Association
*Copyright Alliance
*Copyright Clearance Center (CCC)
*Coty Inc.
*Council of Fashion Designers of America
*Council of State Governments
*Country Music Association
*CropLife America
*Cross-Entertainment LLC
*CSA Group
*CVS Caremark
*D'Addario & Company, Inc.
*Dan Sherwood Photography
*Danita Delimont Stock Photography
*Dayco Products, LLC
*Deluxe Entertainment Services Group
*Dennyfoto
*Derek DiLuzio Photography
*DeVaul Photography
*Dell
*Direct Selling Association (DSA)
*Directional Insight
*Distefano Enterprises Inc.
*Doriguzzi Photographic Artistry
*Dolby Laboratories, Inc.
*Dolce & Gabbana USA, INC.
*Dollar General Corporation
*Don Grall Photography
*Dunford Architectural Photography
*Eagle Rock Entertainment
*Ed McDonald Photography
*Educational & Industrial Testing Service
*Electronic Arts, Inc.
*Electronic Components Industry Association (ECIA)
*Eli Lilly and Company
*Englebert Photography
*Entertainment Software Association (ESA)
*ERAI, Inc.
*Eric Meola Studio Inc
*Evidence Photographers International Council
*Ex Officio
*Exxel Outdoors
*FAME Publishing Co., LLC.
*FAME Recording Studios
*Far Bank Enterprises
*Fashion Business Incorporated
*Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy
*Fender Musical Instrument Company
*Footwear Distributors & Retailers of America (FDRA)
*Ford Motor Company
*Fortune Brands, Inc.
*Fred J. Lord Photography
*GAR Associates
*Gelderland Productions, L.L.C.
*Gemvision Corporation
*Gibson Guitar Corp.
*GlaxoSmithKline
*Gospel Music Association
*Governors America Corp.
*Graduate Management Admission Council
*Graphic Artists Guild
*Greeting Card Association (GCA)
*Greg Nikas Photography
*Guru Denim
*H.S. Marketing & Design, Inc.
*Harley-Davidson Motor Company
*HarperCollins Publishers
*Harry Fox Agency
*Hastings Entertainment, Inc.
*ICM Distributing Company, Inc.
*IDS Publishing
*IEC Electronics corp.
*Images Plus
*Imaging Supplies Coalition (ISC)
*Independent Distributors of Electronics Association (IDEA)
*INgrooves
*Innate-gear
*International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
*International Brotherhood of Teamsters
*International AntiCounterfeiting Coalition (IACC)
*International Trademark Association (INTA)
*IPC-Association Connecting Electronics Industries
*Ira Montgomery Photography
*J.S. Grove Photography
*James Drug Inc.
*Jaynes Gallery
*JCPage Photography
*Jean Poland Photography
*Jeff Stevensen Photography
*John Fulton Photography
*John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
*Johnson & Johnson
*Juicy Couture, Inc
*Julien McRoberts Photography
*K&R Photographics
*Kaspersky
*kate spade
*Kekepana International Services
*Kenneth Garrett, photographer for National Geographic
*Killing Jar Productions LLC
*Lacoste USA
*Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.
*Lexmark International, Inc.
*Light Perspectives
*Linda Olsen Photography
*Little Dog Records
*Liz Claiborne, Inc
*L'Oréal USA
*Lucky Brand Jeans
*LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton
*Macmillan
*Major League Baseball
*Marcia Andberg Associates LLC
*Mark Niederman Photography
*Marmot
*Marona Photography
*McAfee
*McLain Photography Inc
*Merck & Co., Inc.
*Messy Face Designs, Inc.
*Michael Stern Photography
*MicroRam Electronics, Inc.
*Minter Works of Art
*Mira Images
*Monster Cable Products, Inc.
*Moose’s Photos
*Morningstar Films LLC
*Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA)
*MotionMasters
*Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association
*MPA - The Association of Magazine Media
*Mr. Theodor Feibel (sole proprietor)
*Music Managers Forum-U.S.
*Nashville Songwriters Association International
*Natalie Neckyfarow Actor/Dancer/Singer
*National Association of Broadcasters
*National Association of Manufacturers
*National Association of Recording Merchandisers (NARM)
*National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO)
*National Basketball Association (NBA)
*National Board for Certified Counselors
*National Board for Certified Counselors Foundation
*National Cable & Telecommunications Association
*National Criminal Justice Association
*National District Attorneys Association
*National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA)
*National Football League (NFL)
*National Fraternal Order of Police
*National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA)
*National Retail Federation (NRF)
*NBCUniversal
*Nervous Tattoo Inc., dba Ed Hardy
*New Balance Athletic Shoe, Inc.
*New Era Cap Co Inc
*New Levels Ent. Co. LLC
*News Corporation
*Next Decade Entertainment, Inc.
*NHL Enterprises, L.P.
*Nicholas Petrucci, Artist, LLC
*Nike, Inc.
*Nintendo of America Inc.
*Nissle Fine Art Photography
*North Dakota Pharmacists Association
*North Dakota Pharmacy Service Corporation
*Oakley, Inc.
*One Voice Recordings
*OpSec Security, Inc.
*Outdoor Industry Association
*Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI)
*Outdoor Research, Inc
*Pacific Component Xchange, Inc.
*Party Killer Films LLC
*Pearson Clinical Assessment
*Peavey Electronics Corporation
*Perry Ellis International
*Personal Care Products Council
*Peter C. Brandt, Architectural and Fine Art Photography
*Peter Hawkins Photography, Inc.
*Petzl America
*Pfizer Inc.
*PGA of America
*Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
*Philip Morris International
*Photojournalist Dave Bartruff
*Picture Archive Council of America (PACA)
*Pigfactory Music
*PING
*PNW Images
*Premier League
*Production Music Association (PMA)
*Professional Photographers of America
*Quality Float Works, Inc.
*Raging Waters Music
*Ralph Lauren Corporation
*Ramsay Corporation
*Rebel Photo
*Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)
*Red4 Music/Doogs Rock Inc
*Red Wing Shoe Company
*Reebok International Ltd.
*Reed Elsevier Inc.
*Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA)
*Richard Flutie Photography
*Rite Aid
*Robin Davis Photography, Inc.
*Rodger Scott Craig, a member of Liverpool Express, The Merseybeats, *Fortune, Harlan
*Cage, 101 South, and Mtunz Media
*Roger Smith Photography Services
*Rolex Watch USA Inc.
*Romance Writers of America (RWA)
*Rosetta Stone
*Saddle Creek
*Sage Studios LLC
*Sam D'Amico Photography
*Schneider Electric
*Sean McGinty Photography
*Secret Sea Visions (Photography)
*SESAC, Inc.
*SG Industries, Inc.
*Shure Incorporated
*SIGMA Assessment Systems
*Six Degrees Records
*Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council
*SMC Entertainment
*SMT Corp.
*SoBe Entertainment
*Society of Sport & Event Photographers
*Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA)
*Sony Electronics Inc.
*Sony Music Entertainment
*Sony Pictures Entertainment
*Soul Appeal Records and Music
*SoundExchange
*Southern Gothic LLC
*Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)
*SPI (The Plastics Industry Trade Association)
*Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association
*Sports Rights Owners Coalition
*Spring Fever Productions LLC
*Spyder Active Sports, Inc
*Stenbakken Photography
*Stephen Dantzig Photography
*Stock Artist Alliance
*Stuart Weitzman Holdings, LLC
*Student Photographic Society
*Studio 404
*SunRise Solar Inc.
*Symantec
*Taylor Glenn Photographs
*Taylor Guitars
*Taylor Made Golf Company, Inc.
*Teamsters Union
*Tednologies, Inc.
*The Cambridge Don
*The Collegiate Licensing Company/IMG College
*The Donath Group, Inc.
*The Dow Chemical Company
*The Estee Lauder Companies
*The International Association of Fire Fighters
*The McGraw-Hill Companies
*The Music People! Inc.
*The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)
*The Recording Academy (National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences)
*The Timberland Company
*The Walt Disney Company
*Tiffany & Co.
*Time Warner Inc.
*Tony Bullard Photography
*Toshiba America Business Solutions, Inc.
*TRA Global
*Tricoast Worldwide
*Trio Productions, Inc. / Songscape Music,
*Twist & Shout, Inc.
*U.S. Chamber of Commerce
*Ultimate Fighting Championship
*Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
*Universal Music Group
*Uniweld Products Inc.
*VF Corporation
*Viacom
*Vibram USA, Inc
*Virtual Chip Exchange USA, Inc.
*Voltage Pictures, LLC
*W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
*Walcott Studio, LLC
*Wal-Mart
*Warner Music Group
*Wendy Kaveney Photography
*Western Psychological Services
*Westmorland Images, LLC
*Wild & Associates, Inc.
*Wild Eye Photos LLC
*William Sutton Photography
*Willis Music
*WindLegends Ink LLC
*Winestem Company
*Winslow Research Institute
*Wolfe Video
*Wolverine World Wide, Inc.
*Woolrich, Inc.
*World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc.
*Xerox Corporation
*Zippo Manufacturing Company
*Zumba Fitness, LLC

[Don Hills]

More relevant is the list of Representatives who have expressed concerns:
Ron Wyden (no surprise)
Rand Paul
Jerry Moran
Maria Cantwell
Michele Bachmann
Darrell Issa
Dan Lungren
Nancy Pelosi (that is a surprise)

Note that their objections centre around the "unintended consequences" of the bill, not its stated intent.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

Well I guess you didnt notice that I said domestic sites....


Which is why the lawsuits have to happen in the country of origin.

which I already said was sort of the response that HAD to happen to impact the issue-

Those same pirate sites can pop up where-ever. Unless we block national access there will continue to be a problem- which is why this being addressed in the US is like putting a band-aid on a pointblank gunshot wound.

You are wrong and can go in circles all you want. Cutting off the illegal access to infringing material which originates outside the states will increase legitimate domestic sales.

As the USA is the #1 market in the world for English language music I am very confident in seeing legitimate domestic sales increase.

Don't be intellectually dishonest.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

we are also in the deepest recession of modern times. and still BMI and ASCAP collected a combined 1.8 BILLION dollars in performing fees for last year.

If you dont want your work stolen just play live- its the only way to guarantee that outcome.

so what releases do you have an interest in that are getting stolen?

here are mine.... all of the CD libraries are over 10 years old- but I am still actually getting royalties from them which is actually pretty nice.
Charles Maynes Signature Series 50% OFF
Poke In The Ear, Volume One
Poke In The Ear Volume II
Poke in the Ear Audio CD
Poke in the Ear S1000
Textural Ambience

and my sounds here-http://www.sounddogs.com/extendedsearch.asp

Producers dont play live.

Songwriters don't play live.

Engineers don't play live.

Graphic designers don't play live.

Publicists don't play live.

Software programmers don't play live.

You can keep misrepresenting the issue, but it's intellectually dishonest to do so.

Why not just have legislation that allows for Creators to be paid fairly?

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by Don Hills

More relevant is the list of Representatives who have expressed concerns:
Ron Wyden (no surprise)
Rand Paul
Jerry Moran
Maria Cantwell
Michele Bachmann
Darrell Issa
Dan Lungren
Nancy Pelosi (that is a surprise)

Note that their objections centre around the "unintended consequences" of the bill, not its stated intent.

Well I'm glad they are now using their psychic powers to predict the future...

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by krheatman

What like green jobs,fixing roads and bridges.
how about some more billion dollar loans that create 350 jobs.

How about shutting down our borders and leveling the playing field with trade.Restore the manufacturing base in the U.S. It shouldn't be cheaper to manufacture things in China.Tariff imports.

Tariffs and isolationism don't work and would only contribute to the rampant inflation that is already wrecking havoc on the economy.

And when you tariff other countries they tend to do the same to you.

The other big problem is that our manufacturing base is gone and we can't afford to build it back.

But they won't do that because there is too much money to be made overseas in China.We have been sold out.Corporate greed lobbies congress and they are all in the lobbiests pockets for campaign donations and God only knows what else.

Well, yeah, you need markets for products.

Any politician that sells us out for corporate greed is guilty of treason in my book.
That includes Clinton and the Republican led Congress who signed the economy away his last day in office 1999.The idiots at Fannie May and Freddie Mack who have cost us billions.The list goes on.

Internal corporate greed and fraud are major problems.

The cause is corporations run by people who are only interested in the short term bottom line that they can put in the quarterly and yearly report to the stockholders and stockholders who are only interested in speculation and short term gains. Value in companies being determined by short term stock prices, not dividends, like it was some sort of Las Vegas casino game. The people who own the companies (shareholders) aren't interested in the long term health and profitability, let alone growth, of the company, just turning a quick profit when they sell the shares in a few weeks of months.

THAT'S the problem. Not foreign competition.

Except of course for the fact that some countries have companies that actually ARE interested in future growth because they're not controlled by mobs of idiot speculators but by people who actually know something about the industries they're involved in.

You can't count on the government.Were screwed.
Unless that is,Chuck Norris gets involved.

It's not the government's fault.

[charles maynes]

you might update your info- Apple doesnt support the bill....

can people download zippo lighters? just curious about that....

Apple, Microsoft-backed trade group now says “SOPA needs work” | VentureBeat

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo

Producers dont play live.

Songwriters don't play live.

Engineers don't play live.

Graphic designers don't play live.

Publicists don't play live.

Software programmers don't play live.

You can keep misrepresenting the issue, but it's intellectually dishonest to do so.

Why not just have legislation that allows for Creators to be paid fairly?

why? because all the other legislation that has promised exactly that has failed.

good enough reason?

When we have law makers who themselves state are uninformed on the issue, what can you really expect?

And why is the current copyright protections inadequate?

I am interested in the work you are having pirated as well....

and it is very curious that so many here dont even identify themselves.... Chris does, as do I, and Alistair too.

I am all for protecting copyrights this law is a bad one though.

and how am I misrepresenting the issue? by looking beyond the scope that you are?

I am going to cease comment on this until the markup occurs and then we can actually discuss what the law might really look like. I have actual real work to attend to.

[unitymusic]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

hmmm now MoveOn.org is against the SOPA....

MoveOn.org Political Action: Say NO to Internet Censorship


interesting....

Isn't moveon.org funded by george soros?

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

why? because all the other legislation that has promised exactly that has failed.

good enough reason?

When we have law makers who themselves state are uninformed on the issue, what can you really expect?

And why is the current copyright protections inadequate?

I am interested in the work you are having pirated as well....

and it is very curious that so many here dont even identify themselves.... Chris does, as do I, and Alistair too.

I am all for protecting copyrights this law is a bad one though.

and how am I misrepresenting the issue? by looking beyond the scope that you are?

I am going to cease comment on this until the markup occurs and then we can actually discuss what the law might really look like. I have actual real work to attend to.

No one is forcing you to comment here. You can leave the debate, and your talking points behind at anytime.

YOU (and others) may disagree with the bill, but that does not mean that a) there isn't a problem that needs to be fixed and b) that your objections to the bill mean the whole thing should be thrown out.

You're entire point of view is informed not by the actually issue being discussed as much as it appears to be rooted in an extreme anti-government, anti-copyright libertarian orientation.

From that perspective I think it may be difficult for you to support any legislation that actually has a chance of working.