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"I would never pay for music, artists make too much money anyway."
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dysenterygary
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#1
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
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"I would never pay for music, artists make too much money anyway."

I had a horribly depressing conversation with a very close friend today, who I'm afraid represents the common listener extremely well. I asked him if he'd paid for a single song on his computer and he laughed and said he'd never pay for music.

This friend is the kind of guy who will call me in the middle of the night to tell me he found a new band. He loves music of all kinds very passionately so I was very caught off guard by his view towards actually paying these artists. His view is that they are just people who choose to make music, and if they are making music to try to get money then they are making it for the wrong reason and definitely shouldn't get paid. So I asked him what happens when the whole industry collapses because no one buys music? He said it will help filter out all the crappy artists/bands and only the really good ones will be able to survive, so it will be a good thing anyway. "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"

We went on and on, but he would never budge. It was a bit depressing, and I just fear that he represents the majority.
#2
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #2
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He's got a point but even good bands wont do great without some income - which is what you need to keep making and pushing your music. I guess thats the whole "you cant just sell albums anymore, you gotta sell t-shirts and tour" argument. He seems a bit jealous however, especially with the "make millions" part - which a) is not easy, and b) if a lot of people like your product be it anything not just music, why do you not deserve hefty paychecks for it?

But I feel bad for his mindset. He doesn't even want to buy a song or two every now and then for his FAVORITE band especially if he does the research and finds out how hard they work?
#3
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #3
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Unfortunately, when I have this argument with people and educate them, their argument switches to a flat out "I don't care."
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#4
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #4
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How could you listen to music if you didnt pay for it? I mean, other than catchin a video on youtube or something??

Hmm....?? Phoney.
#5
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysenterygary View Post
I had a horribly depressing conversation with a very close friend today, who I'm afraid represents the common listener extremely well. I asked him if he'd paid for a single song on his computer and he laughed and said he'd never pay for music.

This friend is the kind of guy who will call me in the middle of the night to tell me he found a new band. He loves music of all kinds very passionately so I was very caught off guard by his view towards actually paying these artists. His view is that they are just people who choose to make music, and if they are making music to try to get money then they are making it for the wrong reason and definitely shouldn't get paid. So I asked him what happens when the whole industry collapses because no one buys music? He said it will help filter out all the crappy artists/bands and only the really good ones will be able to survive, so it will be a good thing anyway. "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"

We went on and on, but he would never budge. It was a bit depressing, and I just fear that he represents the majority.
Thats sad. I read somewhere though that (statistically) people who download free tunes spend more money annually on music than people who don't download.
#6
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #6
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I wish the masses would kick up more of a fuss about this kind of thing. Unfortunately it seems that most think it's ok to steal music, and many for exactly the reasons your friend is talking about.

The reality is that most bands these days make next to nothing, and many end up with large sums of debt paying off advances that were never possible to recoup.

The Problem With Music
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#7
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
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Quote:
"I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"
Well...of course. Because you (meaning the person who said that) can't.
#8
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
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I know many professional players and unless your lady gaga, or a well known session player, chances are you barely see pennies of each album sale. The money gets divided among, the label, promoters, engineers, distributers, managers etc....
#9
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4000super View Post
How could you listen to music if you didnt pay for it? I mean, other than catchin a video on youtube or something??

Hmm....?? Phoney.
Wow really? You think youtube is the only way of accessing music?

Oh dear god this ignorance goes both ways
#10
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysenterygary View Post
I had a horribly depressing conversation with a very close friend today, who I'm afraid represents the common listener extremely well. I asked him if he'd paid for a single song on his computer and he laughed and said he'd never pay for music.

This friend is the kind of guy who will call me in the middle of the night to tell me he found a new band. He loves music of all kinds very passionately so I was very caught off guard by his view towards actually paying these artists. His view is that they are just people who choose to make music, and if they are making music to try to get money then they are making it for the wrong reason and definitely shouldn't get paid. So I asked him what happens when the whole industry collapses because no one buys music? He said it will help filter out all the crappy artists/bands and only the really good ones will be able to survive, so it will be a good thing anyway. "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"

We went on and on, but he would never budge. It was a bit depressing, and I just fear that he represents the majority.
he's making excuses for stealing music-being willfully ignorant to justify his behaviour...and probably trying to justify a job/decision he is not happy with by creating this story about artists making millions while he's stuck in a dead end job...

however - creating and sharing art is not a simple issue like building a fence for someone - and that (and the proliferation of digital technology) is why people can get away with this type of BS...

its sad - but self regulation is the answer these days I think. Self-regulation can only happen if people realise how important sales are for a band. But maybe some of the fat in the industry needs to be cut...I dunno Im not an expert tbh...
#11
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
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Considering the pathetic garbage that the mainstream music biz has been churning out for well over 20 years -- good for him !!! I actually wish everybody on the planet felt like this, then maybe they'd finally get the message just how out-of-touch the money fiend suits truly are these days.

Why should anybody have to pay anything for the cookie cutter drivel that passes for music these days ?

Music has COMPLETELY become fashion today; the vast majority of the artists are glorified kareokee singers that were selceted at some cheesy audition that most likely resembled a PTA meeting; then they get assigned a "team" of marketing robots, makeup/image duechebags and the gullible public gets bashed over the head with the PR sledgehammer until they succumb and decide that they like something that they most likely really feel is just garbage. But they go along with it because "hey, it's fashionable and I don't want to feel old or out-of-touch"

At least when you buy some stupid shirt or a pair of nike tennis shoes you actually get something tangible for your money.
#12
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Considering the pathetic garbage that the mainstream music biz has been churning out for well over 20 years -- good for him !!! I actually wish everybody on the planet felt like this, then maybe they'd finally get the message just how out-of-touch the money fiend suits truly are these days.

Why should anybody have to pay anything for the cookie cutter drivel that passes for music these days ?

Music has COMPLETELY become fashion today, yet at least when you buy some stupid shirt or a pair of nike tennis shoes you actually get something tangible for your money.
But truthfully there IS a difference between steeling a necklace from Target and steeling a necklace from the lady who is trying to make a living selling hand-made jewelry.
#13
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Considering the pathetic garbage that the mainstream music biz has been churning out for well over 20 years -- good for him !!! I actually wish everybody on the planet felt like this, then maybe they'd finally get the message just how out-of-touch the money fiend suits truly are these days.

Why should anybody have to pay anything for the cookie cutter drivel that passes for music these days ?

Music has COMPLETELY become fashion today; the vast majority of the artists are glorified kareokee singers that were selceted at some cheesy audition that most likely resembled a PTA meeting; then they get assigned a "team" of marketing robots, makeup/image duechebags and the gullible public gets bashed over the head with the PR sledgehammer until they succumb and decide that they like something that they most likely really feel is just garbage.

At least when you buy some stupid shirt or a pair of nike tennis shoes you actually get something tangible for your money.
Are people really this ignorant?

You act like YOU aren't part of the problem. "Why would anyone pay for cookie cutter music?" Make something better. Make something worth buying.

And who's forcing you to buy crap music anyway?

Buy what you consider "good" music and more of THAT will be made.

Why won't these idiots take some personal responsibility instead of just bitching? (Answer: They can't do anything else)

And who are these gearslut fanbois who don't actually make music doing here anyway?
#14
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Considering the pathetic garbage that the mainstream music biz has been churning out for well over 20 years -- good for him !!! I actually wish everybody on the planet felt like this, then maybe they'd finally get the message just how out-of-touch the money fiend suits truly are these days.

Why should anybody have to pay anything for the cookie cutter drivel that passes for music these days ?

Music has COMPLETELY become fashion today; the vast majority of the artists are glorified kareokee singers that were selceted at some cheesy audition that most likely resembled a PTA meeting; then they get assigned a "team" of marketing robots, makeup/image duechebags and the gullible public gets bashed over the head with the PR sledgehammer until they succumb and decide that they like something that they most likely really feel is just garbage. But they go along with it because "hey, it's fashionable and I don't want to feel old or out-of-touch"

At least when you buy some stupid shirt or a pair of nike tennis shoes you actually get something tangible for your money.
Lol you my good sir are an idiot. Because even 20-30 years ago there were the same "duechebags" like you talking about music was becoming worse and worse, when in reality, music was just being music. There have always been good and bad music. Music evolves, you just age and get boring because you're stuck on the past.

And a stupid t-shirt is more tangible than a good song? I feel sorry for ya.

#15
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Are people really this ignorant?

You act like YOU aren't part of the problem. "Why would anyone pay for cookie cutter music?" Make something better. Make something worth buying.

And who's forcing you to buy crap music anyway?

Buy what you consider "good" music and more of THAT will be made.

Why won't these idiots take some personal responsibility instead of just bitching? (Answer: They can't do anything else)

And who are these gearslut fanbois who don't actually make music doing here anyway?


woosah, woosah, wooooosossaaaahhhhhhhh...
#16
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysenterygary View Post
I had a horribly depressing conversation with a very close friend today, who I'm afraid represents the common listener extremely well. I asked him if he'd paid for a single song on his computer and he laughed and said he'd never pay for music.

This friend is the kind of guy who will call me in the middle of the night to tell me he found a new band. He loves music of all kinds very passionately so I was very caught off guard by his view towards actually paying these artists. His view is that they are just people who choose to make music, and if they are making music to try to get money then they are making it for the wrong reason and definitely shouldn't get paid. So I asked him what happens when the whole industry collapses because no one buys music? He said it will help filter out all the crappy artists/bands and only the really good ones will be able to survive, so it will be a good thing anyway. "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"

We went on and on, but he would never budge. It was a bit depressing, and I just fear that he represents the majority.
Strange if i like a band i'll buy their cd and support them, it's always good to help your favorite bands get out on tour so you can see them.
#17
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #17
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What problem am I part of ?

Do my opinions upset those who are bitching that the odds are incredibly stacked against them for ever being able to "make a living" from being a musician/composer/artist, no matter how talented they may be ?

Is perhaps a cold, hard dose of reality concerning the utterly rotten system of modern western capitalism too much for some around these parts to handle ?

And on the subject of ART, how many here feel like what they have to offer is equal to that of the likes of Vango, Mozart, Poe, Nietzsche, etc... ?

How much time did Poe or Vango spend complaining about not being able to "make a living" from their art when they were alive ? And did their complete inability to make anything stop them from creating and developing their ART further ?

Who here is more worthy of "making a living" from his/her ART than either one for these genuises were ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Are people really this ignorant?

You act like YOU aren't part of the problem. "Why would anyone pay for cookie cutter music?" Make something better. Make something worth buying.

And who's forcing you to buy crap music anyway?

Buy what you consider "good" music and more of THAT will be made.

Why won't these idiots take some personal responsibility instead of just bitching? (Answer: They can't do anything else)

And who are these gearslut fanbois who don't actually make music doing here anyway?
#18
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH4 View Post
He's got a point but even good bands wont do great without some income - which is what you need to keep making and pushing your music. I guess thats the whole "you cant just sell albums anymore, you gotta sell t-shirts and tour" argument. He seems a bit jealous however, especially with the "make millions" part - which a) is not easy, and b) if a lot of people like your product be it anything not just music, why do you not deserve hefty paychecks for it?

But I feel bad for his mindset. He doesn't even want to buy a song or two every now and then for his FAVORITE band especially if he does the research and finds out how hard they work?
the only point he has is on the top of his head, try studying music, learning to play an instrument, writing songs, recording and producing them, going on the road, making no money, getting screwed left and right. In my opinion people have this misconception of what it is to make music, of how hard you have to work to make a record. Most couldn't hack it in this world.
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#19
23rd July 2011
Old 23rd July 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
What problem am I part of ?

Do my opinions upset those who are bitching that the odds are incredibly stacked against them for ever being able to "make a living" from being a musician/composer/artist, no matter how talented they may be ?

Is perhaps a cold, hard dose of reality concerning the utterly rotten system of modern western capitalism too much for some around these parts to handle ?

And on the subject of ART, how many here feel like what they have to offer is equal to that of the likes of Vango, Mozart, Poe, Nietzsche, etc... ?

How much time did Poe or Vango spend complaining about not being able to "make a living" from their art when they were alive ? And did their complete inability to make anything stop them from creating and developing their ART further ?

Who here is more worthy of "making a living" from his/her ART than either one for these genuises were ???
As others have said, you're pretty much an idiot, at least on this point. Have you ever even READ a biography of any of the great artists of the past? I doubt seriously you have, particuarly considering you think it's spelled Vango.

And the problem isn't that it's incredibly hard to be successful as a musician. It's that, even on top of that we have a world full of other idiots who will then rationalize stealing from you if you do become successful. That dries up the revenues available to fund giving more artists a chance at being successful as well.

The whole thing is just stupid at the roots, that we even have to argue that this kind of incredibly immoral and unethical activity is wrong and dangerious and unhealthy to society to begin with.
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#20
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH4 View Post
Lol you my good sir are an idiot. Because even 20-30 years ago there were the same "duechebags" like you talking about music was becoming worse and worse, when in reality, music was just being music. There have always been good and bad music. Music evolves, you just age and get boring because you're stuck on the past.

And a stupid t-shirt is more tangible than a good song? I feel sorry for ya.


Not stuck on the past really; actually most of my close friends are in the 18-30 age bracket and this is how THEY feel !!!!

My "generation" was late 90s, but I still feel the vast majority of mainstream music from that entire decade was drivel. 80s was pretty bad too, but at least if a band had an ORIGINAL sound back then they still had a chance to get a decent chance at exposure.

Corporate facism has taken over every level of society and culture since the 90s. Post 911 and now it's a complete facist oligarchy, not too much different from pre WW2 **** Germany.
#21
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Corporate facism has taken over every level of society and culture since the 90s. Post 911 and now it's a complete facist oligarchy, not too much different from pre WW2 **** Germany.
That's laughable. You haven't a clue what it would really be like if that were true. Once again, I'd recommend actually cracking a book and learning what it was REALLY like.
#22
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
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Stealing, whether from Target, rich artists, or a poor old lady, is still wrong and illegal. If people don't care about laws, than our society starts crumbling.

If music is good enough for me to possess and listen to, than it is worth paying for. Considering all the work and money that goes into writing and recording a song, just pay the f-ing 99 cents if you like it.
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#23
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #23
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OK, forgive me Vincent -- I'm an idiot because I'm drinking whisky today and forgot to spell your name correctly which was pointed out by a software programmer self procalimed "hobbyist" with 10,406 posts on a music gear website who is concerned about internet piracy.

Yet the question remains: how much time did the likes of Poe, Van Gogh, Nietzsche, Blake, etc. sit around worrying about "making a living" from their art ?

And how much TIME has somebody with 10,406 posts on GS spent sitting in front of a computer screen debating meaningless topics when others (artists) are tapping in to heightened states of consciousness and transmitting signals from (in the form of art) the vast abyss of infinity -- which, BTW, cares NOTHING about whether or not the transient, impermanent mass of cells (artist, who is LUCKY to even be alive) on the receiving end can "make a living" from it or not !!!

Who are the real idiots here ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
As others have said, you're pretty much an idiot, at least on this point. Have you ever even READ a biography of any of the great artists of the past? I doubt seriously you have, particuarly considering you think it's spelled Vango.

And the problem isn't that it's incredibly hard to be successful as a musician. It's that, even on top of that we have a world full of other idiots who will then rationalize stealing from you if you do become successful. That dries up the revenues available to fund giving more artists a chance at being successful as well.

The whole thing is just stupid at the roots, that we even have to argue that this kind of incredibly immoral and unethical activity is wrong and dangerious and unhealthy to society to begin with.
#24
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
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Oh really, Mr. sit behind a computer screen internet software programmer geek whose entire perception of world history is based upon reading books ?

Were you there to know what is was REALLY like ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
That's laughable. You haven't a clue what it would really be like if that were true. Once again, I'd recommend actually cracking a book and learning what it was REALLY like.
#25
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post

Yet the question remains: how much time did the likes of Poe, Van Gogh, Nietzsche, Blake, etc. sit around worrying about "making a living" from their art ?
i would venture a guess probably quite a bit...

Van Gogh had support from his brother, but he tried to sell paintings for awhile with little results... surely his lifestyle only helped to further induce his mental instability which forced him to blast himself at 37... if perhaps he had garnered a bit more success during his living time, he may not have swung into such a dark state... maybe... but, if not for the support he received you can guarantee he would have had to do something other then his Art to survive and we would not be so blessed with what we did get from him...

thank-god for his brother and those that choose to help support the Arts...
#26
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #26
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Sage (ironic name ...), you're going the right way for a post report if you don't give the ad hominem a rest
#27
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post

Were you there to know what is was REALLY like ?
listen to yourself and do yourself a favour mate.
#28
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #28
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It seems a lot of people here are saying some right things but missing one big factor about the entire issue: stealing is stealing, no matter who it is from. I have never been able to quite fathom the stupidity and arrogance that some people have. I would have bands that came to my studio and had all sorts of pirated music, stolen music (whatever you want to call it) and yet they were so protective of their own material which for the most part was not worth stealing! The gall was unvelievable!! How many people that you know that steal music have a job? Do they work for free? Do they plan to study and learn about the field in which they want to work, spend money to educate themselves? Are they passionate about it? Will they then just go work for free?? It's the same stinking concept, people!

The discussion here really turned to musical style a lot. I personally do not like pop music. It IS cookie cutter stuff BUT it only sells because people are buying it! OMG!! You think musicians are overpaid?? What about pro atheletes?!? Ridiculous! Yes, they are talented. And yes, I don't blame them for getting every penny they can. I can't say I wouldn't do the same! That's not about them.. that is about the consumer! If people won't pay the $200 ticket price eventually the price will come down and something will change. We want the bands to make great sounding records yet we don't want to pay the piper. In this day and age, it is much easier to make a better sounding recording in your home than even 5 years ago. Sonically, is it going to compare to a multi-million dollar studio? No! Are not a Mercedes and a Yugo both cars?? Which do you want? Why is the Mercedes more expensive? Quality, my friend. Quality. If you want it, you have to pay for it. I am a supporter of DIY music. I am more of a fan of good songwriting. One of my favorite songwriters died in 1997. His last project was a double disc. One disc is just him and his acoustic in an old church. It was his demo recordings. He died before he could record the project. His friends all banded together and produced a polished copy with guest stars and the whole nine yards...... I like the demo disc so much better.
So those of you who want to steal the music- go ahead. It reveals your true character....or lack thereof.

Just my 2 cents...
#29
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #29
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I would never pay for a car, car company CEOs make too much money anyway.

Yep - gonna go steal me a Beamer later.
#30
24th July 2011
Old 24th July 2011
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysenterygary View Post
I had a horribly depressing conversation with a very close friend today, who I'm afraid represents the common listener extremely well. I asked him if he'd paid for a single song on his computer and he laughed and said he'd never pay for music.

This friend is the kind of guy who will call me in the middle of the night to tell me he found a new band. He loves music of all kinds very passionately so I was very caught off guard by his view towards actually paying these artists. His view is that they are just people who choose to make music, and if they are making music to try to get money then they are making it for the wrong reason and definitely shouldn't get paid. So I asked him what happens when the whole industry collapses because no one buys music? He said it will help filter out all the crappy artists/bands and only the really good ones will be able to survive, so it will be a good thing anyway. "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"

We went on and on, but he would never budge. It was a bit depressing, and I just fear that he represents the majority.
Why does he pay for anything? Any product? Whether he likes it or not, even the so called hip artistic bands are a product if they release and sell cd's.
The problem with people like him is this: "I work my ass off and can barely pay my bills, and some guy will sit down and write a song and he deserves millions??"
What bitterness and misguided anger. Who is he to decide who deserves to make millions and who doesn't based on their profession? That's the nature of a free market. If you want to make millions, come up with a product or service that will demand millions, but don't take it out on those who you deem unworthy by stealing their product. Seriously, grow up already.
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