Graduated response coming soon to American ISPs?

[Don Hills]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

...
Don is an IT tech - that's his area of expertise.

Where Don is on somewhat shakier standing is the business strategy and internal policies of the companies he works for. Not to mention the companies he DOESN'T work for.

Do I believe that the suits in the corporate front office - or even in bookkeeping - are going to discuss corporate strategy with the tech department? No, I do not. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they made a point of NOT discussing it with the tech department.

At my employer level, they actually do a reasonable job of communicating strategy. It's a result of employee opinion surveys telling them that they need to do so. As for customers, we know what their strategies are because we have to implement them. These projects have multi-year timelines. One large one that I've been working on since 2007 has only recently been deployed. So I have perfect hindsight - I know exactly what systems are in use, and the requirements that led to them. And I have good foresight for up to several years ahead - I know what is coming because we have to design, build, test and deploy it.

In summary, I know a lot about what the companies we work for are planning. I know more than you think about the companies we don't work for, thanks to professional organisation member networks and forums. I'm constantly having to be careful not to say something that hasn't already been announced publicly.

So. I'm done with trying to correct your technical misunderstandings, and I'm now done with trying to correct your misconceptions of my knowledge level.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by deepthoughts

You don't need to "defer" to anyone when 5 minutes of searching on Google will get you what you need to know. "Credentials" are only important to those who are frankly too lazy to verify.

That doesn't stand up as an excuse in any discussion, anywhere.
You make a claim, you back it up with evidence and the credentials to make the claim in the first place.
You don't hide behind anonymity and expect your opponents to prove your claim for you.
Very, very basic rules of debate.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by chrisso

That doesn't stand up as an excuse in any discussion, anywhere.
You make a claim, you back it up with evidence and the credentials to make the claim in the first place.
You don't hide behind anonymity and expect your opponents to prove your claim for you.
Very, very basic rules of debate.

I haven't seen proof of your experience in these matters. When is that going to happen?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

How about you stop playing the games and insulting people you disagree with and just discuss the issues to the best of your ability and let your words stand?

I 100% agree!!!!
I can't emphasize that enough.

So no more 'throwdowns', no more "you are too stupid", no more "biased because you are a kept man" etc, etc.....

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

I haven't seen proof of your experience in these matters. When is that going to happen?

Oh dear, you made a good rule..... and broke it one post later.

If you read the thread I'm not trying to prove I know more than you or Don in the are of DSL/Cable.
I've made a couple of points based on my actual experience, paying for and using DSL......
Something I've waited for Don to comment on.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I 100% agree!!!!
I can't emphasize that enough.

So no more 'throwdowns', no more "you are too stupid", no more "biased because you are a kept man" etc, etc.....

That is hilarious. No one here mentioned experience until you and John started throwing it at other posters.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Oh dear, you made a good rule..... and broke it one post later.

If you read the thread I'm not trying to prove I know more than you or Don in the are of DSL/Cable.
I've made a couple of points based on my actual experience, paying for and using DSL......
Something I've waited for Don to comment on.

I never said you claimed to know anything about DSL or cable.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

I haven't seen proof of your experience in these matters.

So no more 'playing games'?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

That is hilarious.

I completely agreed with your proposal..... as long as you stick to it yourself.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by chrisso

So no more 'playing games'?

Nope. I don't see how the experience you have makes you an expert in the inner workings of the music industry or piracy. I've seen you attempts to explain it and I don't buy it. Sorry.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

Nope. I don't see how the experience you have makes you an expert in the inner workings of the music industry or piracy. I've seen you attempts to explain it and I don't buy it. Sorry.

Pathetic.
I'm one of the few here who is pirated.
I've been in the music industry, with no other day job, since 1980.....
Meanwhile you and the people you agree with are NOT in the music industry and don't have their work taken without permission.
Finally, although both you and Mark scream loudly that I'm always crowing about my career, five minutes later you're asking questions about what releases I've had, what retail sites I'm on, whether I've written music or not.
So you claim to know too much, but keep asking for more info......
Ironic.

Who are you again? College student, high schooler? You seem pretty naive about the industry to me.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Pathetic.
I'm one of the few here who is pirated.
I've been in the music industry, with no other day job, since 1980.....
Meanwhile you and the people you agree with are NOT in the music industry and don't have their work taken without permission.
Finally, although both you and Mark scream loudly that I'm always crowing about my career, five minutes later you're asking questions about what releases I've had, what retail sites I'm on, whether I've written music or not.
So you claim to know too much, but keep asking for more info......
Ironic.

Who are you again? College student, high schooler? You seem pretty naive about the industry to me.

It really doesn't matter what you claim or who you are. I know about the issues being discussed here and I am intimately involved in them. I make 100% of my money from my involvement in the music industry. Whether or not you believe it won't change anything. At the end of the day, I know what the facts are and all I have to do is compare what you say to them. All this bullying that you and John try to pull is just immature and silly, but if it makes you feel better pleas continue.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by deepthoughts

Ad hominem attack, as usual. That is what you do Chris when you cannot use logic to dispute what someone has to say. Pretty sad, really.

There is no logic in someone anonymous claiming higher knowledge and credibility.
It's really as simple as that.
If you want to be taken seriously, nail your colours to the m,ast.
Would you believe Neenja over Derek Jeeter in an argument about baseball?
It really is the simplest concept and pretty basic to public debate.
The only reason you disagree is because you agree with the views of the anonymous posters and disagree with the views of those of us who are 'out'.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Neenja

It really doesn't matter what you claim or who you are.

Except that I have long music industry experience and have my work pirated.
You're right, no credibility whatsoever.
I lost any sense you understood the industry the day you claimed Susan Boyle was not hyped by the mainstream

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by deepthoughts

I can tell exactly how much you know about the topic compared to the others here by what you write.

Without knowledge of your own you can tell very little.

Rack too then?

Sure .... why not?
I happen to know who he is. I happen to know who you are. If I happened to know who Neenja was I might be more convinced by his claims of superiority.
But yeah, cards on the table trumps hiding behind anonymity any day.

There are people who obviously understand, and there are others who don't. It doesn't take much research to tell you which is which here.

I made a couple of comments based on actual personal experience with my own ISP. Other than that I've stayed well away from the John vs Don game.
You have a problem with that?

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Don Hills

At my employer level, they actually do a reasonable job of communicating strategy. It's a result of employee opinion surveys telling them that they need to do so. As for customers, we know what their strategies are because we have to implement them. These projects have multi-year timelines. One large one that I've been working on since 2007 has only recently been deployed. So I have perfect hindsight - I know exactly what systems are in use, and the requirements that led to them. And I have good foresight for up to several years ahead - I know what is coming because we have to design, build, test and deploy it.

In summary, I know a lot about what the companies we work for are planning. I know more than you think about the companies we don't work for, thanks to professional organisation member networks and forums. I'm constantly having to be careful not to say something that hasn't already been announced publicly.

So. I'm done with trying to correct your technical misunderstandings, and I'm now done with trying to correct your misconceptions of my knowledge level.

So you believe that if a company has an internal policy of maximizing revenue by covertly supporting piracy they're going to tell you about it? Why on earth would they do something like that? They'd have to be really stupid.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Neenja

That is hilarious. No one here mentioned experience until you and John started throwing it at other posters.

Actually it was Don who brought it up.

You're wrong as usual.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by deepthoughts

I can tell exactly how much you know about the topic compared to the others here by what you write. I don't care about your "credentials."

It is as simple as that. "Rack" doesn't know any less because he won't reveal who he is. I might disagree with him about his conclusions, but I know he is speaking from his experience. I don't need to know who he is.



Rack too then?



There are people who obviously understand, and there are others who don't. It doesn't take much research to tell you which is which here.

Really, just stop with the ad hominem. It's really stupid.

But we know who "rack" is. Chris and I do for sure and my understanding is that you and Neenie do as well. We also know who you are because you outed yourself a few months ago, possibly inadvertently, in the open forum, which was pointed out to me by someone after I'd figured out your identity through other means. I don't know if you've noticed but I've been considerably more civil to you since finding out who you were.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for "anonymous authorities".

[rack gear]

please, please, please... don't take our free content away! how will we build our new business models if we and consumers have to pay for content?!

VCs to Congress: Antipiracy bill will 'chill' tech investment | Media Maverick - CNET News

[chrisso]

Startling.

[Don Hills]

Extraordinary. I can understand them worrying that COICA may make investment in tech more risky, but I don't at the moment see how they arrived at that conclusion. There's money to be made in innovations to prevent copyright infringement, and they are hardly likely to have significant investments in copyright infringment operations.

[chrisso]

I honestly can't see much risk in tech at the moment.
Even faster broadband such as being planned in Oz, the UK and USA is the future, as is internet tv, movie downloads and cloud music etc......
Online shopping is still in it's infancy, remarkably enough.

[mobius.media]

Here we go. This should get interesting.

ISPs to Disrupt Internet Access of Copyright Scofflaws | Threat Level | Wired.com
Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

[Don Hills]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Here we go. This should get interesting. ...

Interesting times, indeed.

- No indication of who pays for the IP-to-subscriber lookup, notice sending, and monitoring for acknowledgement of receipt.

- No detail on the "independant review process", which I doubt exists yet.

- Strengthening of the "guilty unless you prove innocence" presumption.

- The "ispplan.pdf" linked to from the Wired article has been carefully written. The apparent reasonableness of the process should be viewed with extreme suspicion. The camel's nose is in the tent...

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Here we go. This should get interesting.

ISPs to Disrupt Internet Access of Copyright Scofflaws | Threat Level | Wired.com
Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan

[sarcasm]You mean the ISPs are going to send out the notices themselves????

Fancy that!

How will they ever be able to afford the expense?[/sarcasm]