Piracy Is Personal - Tell Your Story Here
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#61
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
Yet they are in the public domain...

Paintings in a museum are somewhat of an exception. Legally, you could photograph them, but flashes damage paintings, so you're not allowed to do that.

And you can't count on public libraries to be the keepers of the archive. Books wear out and get sold/thrown out when they become less popular. That's another reason why the public domain is extremely important. Once it's in the public domain, anyone can archive it.
total strawman - who's stopping ANYONE from archiving music right now? do you not have a personal archive? do you need public domain to maintain your archive?
#62
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music monk View Post
total strawman - who's stopping ANYONE from archiving music right now? do you not have a personal archive? do you need public domain to maintain your archive?
The law?
#63
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkon View Post
realist
Every generation always thinks some sort of apocalypse is coming, but in reality people always adapt and great music will continue to get made.
#64
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #64
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My story is after 12 years of struggle and expense (demos cost $, esp in Nashville as people expect full tracks, well, up until the last few years) my wife finally co-wrote a country hit. This song has most likely been downloaded millions of times. I'm sure if it hadn't been available for free, many more people would have actually paid for it. As you know the ratio is 20:1, illegal to legal. When I read posts from pirates vilifying the music conglomerates to justify their poor ethical choices, I could lose it. Such pathetic oversimplification. Another favorite diversion is some Marxian double speak about free music making the world a better place, blah, blah, etc. These people have probably never made a dime from intellectual property. Let's get real, they just want their free sh*t.
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#65
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billwarner View Post
My story is after 12 years of struggle and expense (demos cost $, esp in Nashville as people expect full tracks, well, up until the last few years) my wife finally co-wrote a country hit. This song has most likely been downloaded millions of times.

I'm sure if it hadn't been available for free, many more people would have actually paid for it. As you know the ratio is 20:1, illegal to legal.

When I read posts from pirates vilifying the music conglomerates to justify their poor ethical choices, I could lose it. Such pathetic oversimplification. Another favorite diversion is some Marxian double speak about free music making the world a better place, blah, blah, etc.

These people have probably never made a dime from intellectual property. Let's get real, they just want their free sh*t.
excellent post bill, thanks for putting the thread back on subject!
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#66
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
The law?
how so?

I have a huge private archive of music, the law is stopping me?

how?

my private collection is dwarfed by others I know, you're saying the law is stopping them too from having private collections of albums, CDs, and recordings?

I'm confused...
#67
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music monk View Post
how so?

I have a huge private archive of music, the law is stopping me?

how?

my private collection is dwarfed by others I know, you're saying the law is stopping them too from having private collections of albums, CDs, and recordings?

I'm confused...
Sometimes it helps to read previous posts. It's not about your personal archive. It's about public archives.
#68
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btroberts View Post
Again, what does 'whack a mole' mean?
It's when you have to roll a deuce and can not make you way to the facilities. Also known as prairie dogging and touching cotton.
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#69
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
Sometimes it helps to read previous posts. It's not about your personal archive. It's about public archives.
and there's nothing more stopping a public archive than there is a private one... there's no problem with the archive, it's what you do with it...
#70
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
.....is both an assumption and a guess.
Good luck with that.
What do you think happened before recorded music? I'm pretty sure in 1800 people were making damn good music, even though there was no music industry.
#71
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I understand their point of view is that they are never going to pay for recorded music again. Now tell me how I win their hearts and minds?
If I knew, I'd be offering my (highly priced) services for doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
...
It's a mistake to claim creative people are hurt by copyright, otherwise the vast majority of them wouldn't be fighting to retain it, or in fact strengthen it.
I didn't claim that. I claimed that extending copyright weakens your case instead of strengthening it.

You aren't going to win the "hearts and minds" of your audience by lobbying for copyright conditions that are simple greed in their opinion: "You want to be able to write a big hit and live off the proceeds for the rest of your life (and your children's lives, and their children's lives)? In your dreams. Work for a living like we do." Right or wrong, that's the mindset you have to overcome.
#72
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #72
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
Work for a living like we do." Right or wrong, that's the mindset you have to overcome.
Well, we do work for a living, thank you very much. Very hard, and usually for the love of music.

No one is going to go along with the Marxist principles the pirates are fantasizing about. The Soviet Union and it's collapse proved that those ideas are doomed to failure every time.

And you seem to be forgetting something: Piracy is illegal. Everything else is just rationalizations.

You're breaking the law when you take music without permission. And it's being done not because of any failed business model, but because you know you can currently get away with it.

If you don't like that, then convince your elected representatives to throw away intellectual property law.

Otherwise, stop whining when someone rightfully prosecutes you for dipping your hand in the cookie jar when you were warned not to.
#73
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
If I knew, I'd be offering my (highly priced) services for doing so.



I didn't claim that. I claimed that extending copyright weakens your case instead of strengthening it.

You aren't going to win the "hearts and minds" of your audience by lobbying for copyright conditions that are simple greed in their opinion: "You want to be able to write a big hit and live off the proceeds for the rest of your life (and your children's lives, and their children's lives)? In your dreams. Work for a living like we do." Right or wrong, that's the mindset you have to overcome.
This just in...dreams do come true. Never very often, sometimes not in a fair or just way depending on your perspective, but I have witnessed it happen to other people enough times in my career to realize that under the right conditions (like people making their own luck), they do come true. The big problem now is if that miracle happens, the pirates have stolen a lot of the treasure.
#74
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
You aren't going to win the "hearts and minds" of your audience by lobbying for copyright conditions that are simple greed in their opinion: "You want to basically win the lotto and live off the proceeds for the rest of your life (and your children's lives, and their children's lives)? In your dreams. Work for a living like we do." Right or wrong, that's the mindset you have to overcome.
Fixed.
#75
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #75
Moderator message

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2 people hit the forums infraction limit and are now totally banned.

All for off topic / political posting. (Heroin? Adultery? homosexuality? Islamic countries?)

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Thread Starter
#76
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #76
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yikes!

well - I do hope more people post their personal stories about how music piracy has effected them. I'm gonna miss john.
#77
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #77
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billwarner's Avatar
 

I guess there was some unpleasantries exchanged after I went to bed. It's a hot button issue, for sure. Here's another personal experience. Last year my wife gets a song on a greatest hits CD for a well known act that's sold 8 million units and had many popular songs. Not even a blip. Don't think it went gold. Due to piracy and the resuting singles driven market, the once coveted greatest hits package is not what it used to be.
#78
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music monk View Post
yikes!

well - I do hope more people post their personal stories about how music piracy has effected them.
Me too...
#79
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #79
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by colourform View Post
...Pirates ? the real pirates are the big companies who profitted from this change of format and downgrading of music to a file on a drive and the trashing of musical quality and its integrity.

The real idoits are those labels who bought into mass mp3 sales , who did not support their physical product and who have become like free net labels on rapid release of bland watered down art for mass consumption.

The trend is not and evolution of quality of sound or product , its a degarding of product into mass comsumed media and for macs benefit and steve jobs retirement fund.Thats whats killing musicians and labels , not pirates/ ( though they are part of it !)

Piracy actually benefits business like Apple as they sell more hd and more of everything they sell.Also suits sony and cdr makers.Look a little wider !
This is precisely the point that I've been trying and mostly failing to effectively make for a decade.
#80
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #80
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billwarner's Avatar
 

All true. A multi-faceted problem.
#81
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #81
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colourform
...Pirates ? the real pirates are the big companies who profitted from this change of format and downgrading of music to a file on a drive and the trashing of musical quality and its integrity.

The real idoits are those labels who bought into mass mp3 sales , who did not support their physical product and who have become like free net labels on rapid release of bland watered down art for mass consumption.

The trend is not and evolution of quality of sound or product , its a degarding of product into mass comsumed media and for macs benefit and steve jobs retirement fund.Thats whats killing musicians and labels , not pirates/ ( though they are part of it !)

Piracy actually benefits business like Apple as they sell more hd and more of everything they sell.Also suits sony and cdr makers.Look a little wider !
The thing is, here you're talking about advances in technology that are not in themselves illegal. We could get into the betamax issue if you want to do it that way. mp3s, bit torrent, etc. are useful when used legally.
Don't attack the technology. Go after the people, communities, and entities that use it illegally. Just like you go after anyone else using something for illegal purposes. It is pointless and destructive to try and deter progress in technology. Treat this like any other law enforcement issue because that is what it is.
#82
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #82
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
The thing is, here you're talking about advances in technology that are not in themselves illegal....
He's talking about morality and ethics as they relate to promoting the abuse of new technology and profiting handsomely from the encouragment of that abuse.
#83
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #83
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Except that the only people ever "targeted" have been people who uploaded or otherwise "made available" vast amounts of music for others to loot.

My opinion is that they should have been prosecuted as criminals and not just slapped on the wrist with a civil lawsuit. Unfortunately the RIAA are wimps who are afraid of offending the public.
#84
15th October 2010
Old 15th October 2010
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Id Ridden View Post
them too...whoever is profiting or making available the means to profit are the ones who should be lynched...not the average joe who is downloading without any knowledge into whats really going on.
So far, virtually no 'average joes' have been prosecuted.
#85
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #85
Gear addict
 
Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
He's talking about morality and ethics as they relate to promoting the abuse of new technology and profiting handsomely from the encouragment of that abuse.
I don't think Apple did that. People wanted to access their personal music library in an easy way, and Apple provided a way to do it. No reason to deny portability to those who purchased their music legally.

MP3s are great for sending mix tests if doing mixing for someone that can't attend the session. CDRs were wonderful for studios wanting to ref mixes in the car.

Now what Google is currently doing is a completely different thing...
#86
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #86
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I think Apple have arguably strong armed musicians into the iTunes model.

Additionally, although I suppose you can't expect them to put their thoughts on the record, they continue to design and sell all kinds of media playback devices, with increasing storage capacity (iPod, iPhone, iPad) and have not said one single thing in support of creative people who have been decimated by the resulting free for all.
The silence is in fact deafening.
#87
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #87
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Actually Apple was the only company that hung out until enough music stars had modified their recording contracts that they could offer music by many of the biggest stars.

Apple's competition tried to railroad legislation through Congress that would force artists to accept a lobbyist-defined compulsory royalty rate that would minimize royalty payments and prevent any kind of exclusive distribution deals. Many in the tech stock pimping trade are still trying to eliminate exclusive deals and cap royalty rates by way of legislation.

Still estimates are that 90% of the music found on i-pods was not paid for.
#88
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #88
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Still estimates are that 90% of the music found on i-pods was not paid for.
Without question. No surprise there.

But the ipod is a music player. It can't be used to pirate. If it wasn't around, there'd be just as much piracy, just stored on some other drive.

If anything itunes helped the labels and artists by making purchasing mp3s easy; something they apparently couldn't do themselves.

I don't own one myself. CDs are low enough bit rate as it is...
#89
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post

Still estimates are that 90% of the music found on i-pods was not paid for.
What does that even mean? I easily don't pay for 90% of the music I own and haven't paid to see a show in 15 years.
#90
16th October 2010
Old 16th October 2010
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
and haven't paid to see a show in 15 years.
Like most of the general public right?
Wrong.
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