Music should be free. If you don't want it 'stolen' then don't record it.
#1772
28th November 2010
Old 28th November 2010
  #1772
Lives for gear
 
in a blue field's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Except..
AFAIK, there's not a device that "materialized" music...
It still takes hard work dedication, yada yada yada. The comparisons you make, make no sense...
Ok, i get it now...
you're just an [deleted]hole

Really.. did your wife leave you for a musician? You've got some serious anger issues.
Look in a mirror...

it's so cute, how many times you edited your post =D
#1773
28th November 2010
Old 28th November 2010
  #1773
Well,
artists are releasing songs for free now and in hip hop, mixtapes are another way of getting free music.
But an album should not be free and should be bought. Artists, producers, engineers, ghost writers, management, the lable, EVERYBODY involved in the project deserve to get some kind of pay.
Fans need to stop being so selfish and BUY what entertains them. In my opinion though, your not a fan if you are not supporting/buying the music so why should you get to listen to it?

They need make money somehow as well. If people stop buying music then any chances you YOU getting paid for working hard will be non-existant as well..
#1774
29th November 2010
Old 29th November 2010
  #1774
Quote:
Originally Posted by in a blue field View Post
i dont understand how the things i've had to say have resulted now in two people insinuating that i think that doctors are infallible ultra-humans or what-the-F-ever. are you TALKING ANIMALS even bothering to completely read posts before you respond? let me say that again, because obviously some people are not reading long enough: filthy motherfvcking TALKING ANIMALS. like, one of the things i said only ONE page ago? like, one of the links in my sig? for fvcks sake, if you're gonna be so stubborn as to not even educate yourself about what you're arguing against, or if you're just too clouded or at worst too stupid, then
S.T.F.U.
I think you've just won the "most incoherent post on Gearslutz" prize.

Congratulations.
#1775
30th November 2010
Old 30th November 2010
  #1775
Lives for gear
 
AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

I wouldn't even bother responding to that "talking animal"

obviously he has no intention of having anything resembling a coherent, rational conversation...

He's just looking to aggrevate.

Waste of Space.
#1776
6th January 2011
Old 6th January 2011
  #1776
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by elginchris View Post
the old system of selling music will never work again. anyone who thinks otherwise might as well stop reading this post right now.

all music should be free in cost.

as an artist/label, the only way to make money 'selling' music is through advertising and merchandising.

---end of story---

Fans are not the only ones who want what is "hot". Marketers make entire careers "breaking" underground artist to the main stream. Thats where the deals should be made.
My goodess, I have no time to read all of the thread, but you are completely wrong. Every music, song, or track has own "quality", I think, personally, that artist should get money not according to effectivity of his manager, marketing team nor ad-guys there, but due to his work, his art quality (even it is subjective)! If you making money thru music, then it is CRAFT, believe or not.

Setup is bad. Great musicians are starving and not that great have $$$ accounts.

My advise to all of people who thinking like You is: "Read a books slutz!" aestetic of music, history of music and basic theory of music should be good start.

No offense, just little disgusted
#1777
6th January 2011
Old 6th January 2011
  #1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentstressor View Post
My advise to all of people who thinking like You is: "Read a books slutz!" aestetic of music, history of music and basic theory of music should be good start.

No offense, just little disgusted
Your heart's in the right place, but -

There are lots of books and some say some pretty cockamamie things.

My advise (to those people) is this:

Get out of your mama's house or your college dorm. Get out on the street where you have to support yourself and experience real life.
#1778
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
  #1778
Gear Head
 
earman's Avatar
 

I think music should be free. I also think food should be free, and apartments and homes and paintings and ...if it isn't free, I'll just take it without feeling any guilt. <wink>
#1779
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
  #1779
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
My question all along has been why should musicians go first?
#1780
22nd February 2011
Old 22nd February 2011
  #1780
Lives for gear
 

Because you're nearest the door? (DFTT)
#1781
24th February 2011
Old 24th February 2011
  #1781
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by earman View Post
I think music should be free. I also think food should be free, and apartments and homes and paintings and ...if it isn't free, I'll just take it without feeling any guilt. <wink>
BUT they should put a tax on masturbation.
#1782
2nd March 2011
Old 2nd March 2011
  #1782
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
BUT they should put a tax on masturbation.
I guess I'm due for an audit.



Frank
#1783
19th March 2011
Old 19th March 2011
  #1783
Gear maniac
 
BachEnvy's Avatar
 

Internets free..this forum is FREE. Youtube is free..we can watch all kinds of things on the net for FREE..We get entertained by the internet for FREE all the time..We all have kind of gotten used to content as being FREE have we not? Something to think about.
#1784
20th March 2011
Old 20th March 2011
  #1784
Lives for gear
 
Gary Ladd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BachEnvy View Post
Internets free..this forum is FREE. Youtube is free..we can watch all kinds of things on the net for FREE..We get entertained by the internet for FREE all the time..We all have kind of gotten used to content as being FREE have we not? Something to think about.
Most people pay for the hardware/software and ISP access, so no the "Internets" aren't actually free...

But aside from the aforementioned, the Internet devalues EVERYTHING it touches, including human labor.

Isn't that great?

#1785
20th March 2011
Old 20th March 2011
  #1785
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Ladd View Post
But aside from the aforementioned, the Internet devalues EVERYTHING it touches, including human labor.
...
Oh, I don't know... I make a pretty good living from it.

In any case, it's not a valid argument. There's a downside to all progress. For example, the Industrial Revolution devalued everything it touched, including (and especially) human labour.
#1786
20th March 2011
Old 20th March 2011
  #1786
Lives for gear
 
Gary Ladd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
Oh, I don't know... I make a pretty good living from it.

In any case, it's not a valid argument. There's a downside to all progress. For example, the Industrial Revolution devalued everything it touched, including (and especially) human labour.
I too have made made an excellent living from the Internet, starting an e-business in 96' as part of a national joint venture that delivers legal documents electronically in real-time, that for your information made dozens of brick & mortar businesses obsolete nationally in the USA....they just couldn't catch our momentum!

So don't tell me it's "not a valid argument", you have to be either joking, vapid or intellectually disingenuous.

I could easily name TONS of businesses where either online sales or integration of information/services has resulted in LARGE scale labor reductions, jobs that will NEVER come back, not to mention how the advent of PCs in general have eliminated the requirement for office help in general and the newer trend of centralizing customer service centers in third-world countries...

Don't believe me, here's an article that will get you up-to-speed:

The Internet devalues everything it touches . . . | ZDNet

Of course, some of the lucky have been able to ride the "Rise of the Internet" wave to success, most notably the IPO fraudsters via the dot.com bubble, but for future generations this trend will be VERY different...unless you're one of the few brilliant, educated folks that continue to find a niche, which most likely will be unfortunately as a drone in some corporate structure in some third-world shithole...

What I see at present time, is that there are swaths of the population that lack the wherewithall mentally and/or educationally to be of value in the workforce, especially given the wage arbitrage reality that the BRIC countries have inserted into the equation...

And I haven't even mentioned blatant IP properties theft that has & is devastating whole industries!
#1787
20th March 2011
Old 20th March 2011
  #1787
Lives for gear
 

My point, which you appear to have missed, was simply that there's nothing special about the "Internet Revolution". You could substitute "Industrial Revolution" throughout your post and it would still read as true. So given that there are previous examples in history, and we can all see how they turned out, what makes the "Internet Revolution" special?
#1788
20th March 2011
Old 20th March 2011
  #1788
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

global and with half the world population? Cross borders regardless or law?

It's pretty unique!
#1789
21st March 2011
Old 21st March 2011
  #1789
Gear maniac
 
BachEnvy's Avatar
 

the connection/access costs money..but the content is pretty much free..watching a movie on Hulu today..boy those commercials are getting me down.
#1790
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1790
Gear Head
 
Cut It Live's Avatar
 

I have a broken garbage disposal. Can someone bring me a new one and install it for free...Many quality engineers, producers, writers, mastering engineers, studios made a living because of the sales of CD's. That takes talent and years of honing your skills. A few plugins aren't going to give your mix the soul of a Bob Clearmountain mix or any of the other great mixers, just as learning an Eddie Van Halen solo doesn't make you a great guitarist. If that was the case everybody would be producing hits like Mutt Lange. With a creation of the internet I would have thought the cream would have risen to the top as far as great bands and songs. But IMHO it hasn't. Their is an empty vacuum of rock-n-roll and great singer songwriters. Google the top 100 albums of say 1976 and see what bands were on the charts compared to the last 10 years. The talent that we were exposed to was pretty incredible.
#1791
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1791
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut It Live View Post
...Google the top 100 albums of say 1976 and see what bands were on the charts compared to the last 10 years. The talent that we were exposed to was pretty incredible.
Far more telling are the entertainment listings in large city newspapers between the 1950s and the 1970s. The very best of those performers are who got recording contracts. Sure there were a few manufactured teen-idols but there were also lots of great acts who were regularly putting enough asses in seats that both the majors and radio had to take their fans very seriously. The problem today is that we have only the manufactured teen-idols, rich posers and starving part timers who can't afford to put in enough time on stage to build a significant following.
#1792
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Far more telling are the entertainment listings in large city newspapers between the 1950s and the 1970s. The very best of those performers are who got recording contracts. Sure there were a few manufactured teen-idols but there were also lots of great acts who were regularly putting enough asses in seats that both the majors and radio had to take their fans very seriously. The problem today is that we have only the manufactured teen-idols, rich posers and starving part timers who can't afford to put in enough time on stage to build a significant following.
sad but seemingly true. it would have been nice is the internet actually did empower musicians as many had hoped, but instead we've really seen the dark side of lower human nature.
#1793
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1793
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
sad but seemingly true. it would have been nice is the internet actually did empower musicians as many had hoped, but instead we've really seen the dark side of lower human nature.
Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.

The internet has allowed non mainstream musicians to market themselves to the relatively small audiences that are widely disbursed. This is HUGE for those of us who are doing it.

You can argue it has been a net negative for the mainstream. Not for the niche market indie.
#1794
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut It Live View Post
I have a broken garbage disposal. Can someone bring me a new one and install it for free...Many quality engineers, producers, writers, mastering engineers, studios made a living because of the sales of CD's. That takes talent and years of honing your skills. A few plugins aren't going to give your mix the soul of a Bob Clearmountain mix or any of the other great mixers, just as learning an Eddie Van Halen solo doesn't make you a great guitarist. If that was the case everybody would be producing hits like Mutt Lange. With a creation of the internet I would have thought the cream would have risen to the top as far as great bands and songs. But IMHO it hasn't. Their is an empty vacuum of rock-n-roll and great singer songwriters. Google the top 100 albums of say 1976 and see what bands were on the charts compared to the last 10 years. The talent that we were exposed to was pretty incredible.
To realize great talent takes quality development and support. The chances of being able to do this one's self are vanishingly small.
#1795
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1795
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepthoughts View Post
Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.

The internet has allowed non mainstream musicians to market themselves to the relatively small audiences that are widely disbursed. This is HUGE for those of us who are doing it.

You can argue it has been a net negative for the mainstream. Not for the niche market indie.
What you mean is that "acts" that don't have enough talent to put asses in seats can try to spread their crap via the internet which is a great thing for inflating their egos and allowing them to fool themselves into believing that they're real musicians and that the noise they make is of equal artistic merit to the music of actual professionals.

The real result is simply that there's so much garbage on the internet now that it's really difficult for anyone, even those with real talent to get any attention except by sheer dumb luck.

It's been a net negative for EVERYBODY EXCEPT the mainstream of ultra commercial pop. Lady Gaga isn't affected - she's high enough profile to cut through the sludge.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 4th April 2011 at 08:58 PM..
#1796
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1796
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
... The problem today is that we have only the manufactured teen-idols, rich posers and starving part timers who can't afford to put in enough time on stage to build a significant following.
... so live gigs are how you learn your craft and build a following. Same as it ever was. And part timers have always starved. What has changed to make this a less viable path? Lack of venues? Poor audience numbers? High overheads? Something else? I don't see how widespread copyright infringement has made much difference at this level.
#1797
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1797
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
...it would have been nice is the internet actually did empower musicians as many had hoped, but instead we've really seen the dark side of lower human nature.
It actually has empowered musicians but just not in the way some people imagined. It's a valuable tool for reaching out to fans once they've found an artist they like. It just doesn't expose artists to people who aren't familiar with them other than referrals from friends and fluke occurrences.
#1798
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
... so live gigs are how you learn your craft and build a following. Same as it ever was. And part timers have always starved. What has changed to make this a less viable path? Lack of venues? Poor audience numbers? High overheads? Something else? I don't see how widespread copyright infringement has made much difference at this level.
Lack of venues has a lot to do with it. In many urban areas there's a problem with zoning, noise complaints, and the police that's caused largely by urban development and residential buildings encroaching into commercial areas. There's also an economic component - a club owner has to really like and be dedicated to live music and encouraging new talent because it's both cheaper and less hassle to simply hire a DJ. And of course general overheads are skyrocketing. The recession so far does not appear to have had the hoped for moderating effect on commercial rents. Part of this may be due to the fact that many of these properties were purchased at the peak of the real estate boom for far more than they are actually worth and the owners CAN'T charge a reasonable rate without losing money so they let the property sit vacant and take the loss as a tax deduction. There's a lot of that in San Francisco and it's affecting a lot more than just music clubs.

To get back to zoning and noise - Bob has frequently advocated that bands go back to the old tradition of throwing house parties to start building a following they can then show club owners. This was a common way for acts in the 40s, 50s, and 60s to get started. The problem is that with the new noise and zoning laws you can't really do that anymore in many, if not most urban areas. If you try it you'll find cops at your door toute suite and if you're asking a donation for admission or serving alcohol they'll arrest you for business license and ABC violations. I can testify to this problem in San Francisco from personal experience.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 4th April 2011 at 10:20 PM..
#1799
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1799
Lives for gear
 
Neenja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
sad but seemingly true. it would have been nice is the internet actually did empower musicians as many had hoped, but instead we've really seen the dark side of lower human nature.
The internet has empowered artists as there are more artists getting heard by more people than ever before. It is the labels actions and lack thereof that put us where we are, and it is a huge number of "honest" artists out there that simply are doing music because they love music that will provide the needed balance to right this ship. IMHO.
#1800
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #1800
Lives for gear
 
Neenja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It actually has empowered musicians but just not in the way some people imagined. It's a valuable tool for reaching out to fans once they've found an artist they like. It just doesn't expose artists to people who aren't familiar with them other than referrals from friends and fluke occurrences.
Except that artists aren't under the thumb of labels, reviewers and radio like they once were. If one approach doesn't work an artist can always try another.
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