What can we do?

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm getting tired of reading really long posts discussing this subject when it's clearly either preaching to the choir or falling on ears that think piracy is acceptable or there's nothing we can do about it.

We can try. Can't we?

Let's put our energies to better use. Let's start with posting some really convincing (well written) articles that would sway most law abiding citizens to cease stealing music and/or movies.

This way we can start spreading it around thru facebook and twitter and anywhere possible.

Maybe even start our own anti-piracy group.

Start a petition. Something positive that can actually accomplish something.

Thoughts?

[lagavulin16]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I'm getting tired of reading really long posts discussing this subject when it's clearly either preaching to the choir or falling on ears that think piracy is acceptable or there's nothing we can do about it.

We can try. Can't we?

Let's put our energies to better use. Let's start with posting some really convincing (well written) articles that would sway most law abiding citizens to cease stealing music and/or movies.

This way we can start spreading it around thru facebook and twitter and anywhere possible.

Maybe even start our own anti-piracy group.

Start a petition. Something positive that can actually accomplish something.

Thoughts?

I think some public service type of ads might help. You know, sad shots of a studio shutting down, some struggling musician with a young child going broke, someone getting cut from a label, pawning their instruments to make rent... that sort of thing. I think it would help.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by lagavulin16

I think some public service type of ads might help. You know, sad shots of a studio shutting down, some struggling musician with a young child going broke, someone getting cut from a label, pawning their instruments to make rent... that sort of thing. I think it would help.

I assume you're trying to be funny.

[lagavulin16]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I assume you're trying to be funny.

I'm actually being serious. You want to win hearts and minds? Show people the repercussions of their actions.

Like that brutal UK PSA about texting while driving, it may not impact everyone and it's certainly an over the top example of what can happen when texting while driving. But at the end of the day, do you think it made anyone text while driving more? Less?

Then maybe it was worth it.

[rack gear]

Can you really not afford a candy bar? Would you steal it if you could?
MUSIC. THE SOUNDTRACK OF YOUR LIFE. CREATED BY ARTISTS.
songs are 99 cents, cheaper than candy bars, and last a lifetime.
SUPPORT THE MUSIC. SUPPORT THE ARTISTS. BUY YOUR MUSIC.

[chrisso]

I'm not sure what can be done at the moment.
Everyone just needs to do what they have to to survive until the 'new' music scene emerges.
The good news is we aren't alone. Some powerful people are desperately searching for a financial model in the news journalism arena. Rupert Murdoch is charging for content and the NY Times has just announced it's re-introducing subscriptions for it's online edition. All seen as experimental tactics.

Movies and television are now being shared on the net, so film makers and broadcasters can't stand idly by.
The BBC's Top Gear is officially the most watched (legally) programme ever, but is also a big draw on torrent sites.

So I'm watching what the BBC do, Murdoch and the American print media.
Hopefully if they come up with some strategies, they'll translate to the music scene too.

[rack gear]

a conceptualized PSA campaign for awareness would be a good start.

then when the fines/disconnects start people will know why

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

Can you really not afford a candy bar? Would you steal it if you could?
MUSIC. THE SOUNDTRACK OF YOUR LIFE. CREATED BY ARTISTS.
songs are 99 cents, cheaper than candy bars, and last a lifetime.
SUPPORT THE MUSIC. SUPPORT THE ARTISTS. BUY YOUR MUSIC.

Not bad.

But there's nothing we as individuals can do besides think things for ourselves, converse with those we know, and support government/ISP initiatives that we think will help.

IFPI/RIAA/MPAA/etc. are doing all they can to lobby for proper changes to be made. Negotiations like ACTA can change everything overnight, and those are mostly done behind closed doors.

[rack gear]

wireless HDMI from laptops to living room tvs is pretty much the death nail of traditional broadcast... this is going to get very interesting.

let's hear it for the cloud... access is ownership.

Originally Posted by chrisso

I'm not sure what can be done at the moment.
Everyone just needs to do what they have to to survive until the 'new' music scene emerges.
The good news is we aren't alone. Some powerful people are desperately searching for a financial model in the news journalism arena. Rupert Murdoch is charging for content and the NY Times has just announced it's re-introducing subscriptions for it's online edition. All seen as experimental tactics.

Movies and television are now being shared on the net, so film makers and broadcasters can't stand idly by.
The BBC's Top Gear is officially the most watched (legally) programme ever, but is also a big draw on torrent sites.

So I'm watching what the BBC do, Murdoch and the American print media.
Hopefully if they come up with some strategies, they'll translate to the music scene too.

[rack gear]

support the process. be the lobby. write your lawmakers and officials.

be the vocal minority that makes change happen.

this is a political issue, which needs a political solution.

there's only one reason why washington is finally paying attention.

the media giants that contribute to campaigns are pissed.

I don't think marilyn manson, snoop and jay-z we're probably making campaign contributions - but spielberg, murdoch, redstone, and others most certainly are...

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Not bad.

But there's nothing we as individuals can do besides think things for ourselves, converse with those we know, and support government/ISP initiatives that we think will help.

IFPI/RIAA/MPAA/etc. are doing all they can to lobby for proper changes to be made. Negotiations like ACTA can change everything overnight, and those are mostly done behind closed doors.

[mobius.media]

AFP: Countries increasingly tackling music piracy head-on

Interesting article. Note that they state South Korea experienced a 53% increase in sales since their adoption of '3 strikes'.

[mrjfender]

the war on piracy is like the war on drugs and the war in iraq.....its a waste of time.as much as i agree with you,its time to find are on solutions to survive.it will not go away and thats reality.

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by mrjfender

the war on piracy is like the war on drugs and the war in iraq.....its a waste of time.as much as i agree with you,its time to find are on solutions to survive.it will not go away and thats reality.

It's only a waste of time if you think the objective is absolute victory. It isn't.

[mrjfender]

well,time can only tell,but i do believe that if you feel very strongly about something and its worth fighting for,than more power to you!good luck!!

[XHipHop]

Kenny, it seems that your intentions are to add to the pile of lies that are already being spread to the public.

I urge you not to take that stance as 99% of the stuff you have already spread on this board has been refuted by experts, studies and testimonials.

Like the previous poster just said...time will tell..but i believe you will be proven to be on the wrong side of this fight as you have swallowed propaganda and lies as facts.

Please open your eyes.

[XHipHop]

Kenny,

This essay is about YOU.

Trapped In Cognition: The Plight of the Digital Age - hypebot

[dafe]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Kenny,

This essay is about YOU.

Trapped In Cognition: The Plight of the Digital Age - hypebot

No, it is not. Stepped in yet another cognition trap of an "enemy stereotype" (companies like vivendi, sony and the likes)?

Uncertainty as a new condition?? What a laugh for the entrepreneurial musician/engineer.


Kenny is about the merching on a more grass root level I gather and asking for thoughts or suggestions is a good thing imho.
I have the impression that the problem isn't yet understood:

If no one can sell the big stones he's/she's digging out of the quarry, there ain't no big stones anymore. We're hammering on the tiny bits left around.

Weird analogy, yes, "the musician who puts the food on the table" is still better..

[XHipHop]

Avatar just passed $2 billion btw...that damn piracy.

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Avatar just passed $2 billion btw...that damn piracy.

So what? Piracy can only reduce sales by a given percentage each year, and it has no way of (yet) reducing the sales of 3D IMAX features that would take >4 GB to download at reasonable quality (if they were available).

If everyone had big screen 3D TV's at home and ultra-high speed connections, your argument might be valid. But right now, it is not.

[author]

I don't think we need to do much... good things happen everywhere.

And most of us probably do what we can already -- talking to media & politicians, etc.

Two suggestions:

1) Don't talk to pirates. Don't make them feel they are socially accepted.

2) Support performers like Lily Allen. She had the guts to say what every artist feels about piracy. Don't be afraid of your crowd if you've got one. Follow her example.

[boody]

We can start by making a few things clear to ourselves:

we make music for other people

every other person is a potential 'lover' of our music

every distribution starts with us: we chose when and how we go public

the public doesn't know us and regards our work a piece of data

--------------------
This is where we start and what we should communicate to the world. Something only gets commercial value if it has something people appreciate and want to support. Somehow a 'mp3' lost it's meaning to a lot of people. How can we show the value behind the data?

And even then: wanted things will always end up being stolen by someone. Crime is a part of humanity. There is no good without the concept of bad. And then again, what is good and what is bad depends on where you stand. Consider you are an ant. In that case the whole of humanity is nothing more than a plague

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Kenny, it seems that your intentions are to add to the pile of lies that are already being spread to the public.

Hey, the subject is "what can we do?" and all you've contributed is a load of one sided opinions.

For months you've been urging us to move on, stop bickering..... but when you are given the chance to say something positive you choose to attack people and pass on partisan propaganda.

[rack gear]

gentlemen - food for thought:
Copyrights & Campaigns

Copyrights & Campaigns. This blog provides news and analysis of copyright, First Amendment, and related issues from a pro-copyright-owner perspective, with emphasis on the interaction of these issues with campaigns and the political process.

Ben Sheffner is a copyright/First Amendment/media/entertainment attorney and former journalist. Ben is currently working as a production attorney in the NBC Universal Television Group. Previously, he worked as an associate at O'Melveny & Myers LLP, as Senior Counsel, Content Protection Litigation at Fox, and as Litigation Counsel at NBC Universal. From July-November 2008, Ben served as Special Counsel on Senator John McCain's presidential campaign where, among other responsibilities, he handled the campaign's copyright, trademark, and other IP issues. A former Co-Chair of the Media Law Resource Center's California Chapter, Ben served as a law clerk to Judge M. Margaret McKeown of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit from 2000-2001.

Between college and law school, Ben worked as a political reporter in Washington, DC at Roll Call newspaper, where he covered congressional elections, the term limits movement, campaign finance reform, and various other issues related to Congress' internal politics and administration. Before that, he was Assistant Editor of the Cook Political Report, where he covered campaigns for the House of Representatives and served as a consultant to CBS News during the 1994 election cycle, helping prepare producers and correspondents for the election night broadcast. A detailed bio is available here.

This is Ben's personal blog and does not necessarily represent the views of any past, present, or future clients or employers. Nothing herein constitutes legal advice.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Kenny, it seems that your intentions are to add to the pile of lies that are already being spread to the public.

I urge you not to take that stance as 99% of the stuff you have already spread on this board has been refuted by experts, studies and testimonials.

Like the previous poster just said...time will tell..but i believe you will be proven to be on the wrong side of this fight as you have swallowed propaganda and lies as facts.

Please open your eyes.

dude - it's you who have fallen for the propaganda and lies... time will tell indeed. but if you think all this stuff is being done to liberate the little guy, you're not paying attention.

but one more time...

you're just a pawn of new media using you to destroy old media...


[edit: in other words you've been punk'd by new media who have convinced you in youthful naivete' that they are doing you a favor by supplying free mp3s, when in fact they have stolen the dreams and careers from you and your friends while financing their own fortunes...]

new media is using old media as a loss leader to sell bandwidth and advertising... it's that simple. it's illegal. and it requires intervention.

for whatever evils you will accuse labels of doing in the past to harm artists, now it's the fans themselves destroying the artists living faster than any thing else...

so what are your solutions? You could make millions!

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Avatar just passed $2 billion btw...that damn piracy.

dude - seriously? you have absolutely no concept of how film business economics work...

Copyrights & Campaigns: LA Times columnist redeems self on piracy; notes harm from counterfeit DVDs

But there is no question that sales of pirated DVDs represent sales taken from the legitimate market. By definition, the purchasers of pirated DVDs (as opposed to some portion of Web pirates) are willing to pay money for product, and a dollar paid to the criminals who sell pirated discs is a dollar taken away from those who worked on and invested in the film.

One last point: the record $10 billion-plus earned at the US box office in 2009 is certainly to be celebrated, and is obvious evidence that piracy has not killed the theatrical business, whose unique experience can't be replicated in all but the fanciest living rooms. But the biggest film piracy threat has always been to the home entertainment (not theatrical) sector, where revenues are "plunging." The last thing the home entertainment business needs is for piracy, via hard goods or the web, to provide an accessible alternative to legal product.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._sections_tech

[chrisso]

Ya Da Ya Da Ya Da.
There are lots of threads going over the same arguments.
This one is titled 'What Can We Do?'

Maybe try and stay on topic...... at least for the sake of variety.

[Jam]

Ok, so let's start from the perspective of the one thing that I've not seen anyone disagree with.

No one should profit from piracy ? Either directly or indirectly ?

James

[boody]

Originally Posted by Jam

No one should profit from piracy ? Either directly or indirectly ?

James

Right. But the problem is of course: a lot of people do:

hardware selling industry
advertising industry
pirate software makers
pirate software hosts
downloading 'pirates'
hackers
virus creators

And these pirates are not recognizable by a flag. Any pc on the world can be part of it, sometimes without the owners being aware.

Long time ago I put a demo in my temp folder. That demo gets visits every month through some bot from a company called deezer. They have this site where you can actually play my demo, amongst a billion other stuff. It has been pirated, just because it is somewhere on the web. Not that I care, if someone enjoys that demo, fine

[Jam]

Originally Posted by boody

Right. But the problem is of course: a lot of people do:

hardware selling industry
advertising industry
pirate software makers
pirate software hosts
downloading 'pirates'
hackers
virus creators

And these pirates are not recognizable by a flag. Any pc on the world can be part of it, sometimes without the owners being aware.

Long time ago I put a demo in my temp folder. That demo gets visits every month through some bot from a company called deezer. They have this site where you can actually play my demo, amongst a billion other stuff. It has been pirated, just because it is somewhere on the web. Not that I care, if someone enjoys that demo, fine

Hi Boody

Thanks for the reply, I'm thinking along the same lines as you, I think.

If we can get a sounding on this part of the issue, specifically "no profit from piracy", I may have a suggestion.

Not a solution but a suggestion !!

James

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by boody

Right. But the problem is of course: a lot of people do:

hardware selling industry
advertising industry
pirate software makers
pirate software hosts
downloading 'pirates'
hackers
virus creators

Obviously ISPs would be near the top of any such list.