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8th February 2010
| #241 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 9,074
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8th February 2010
| #242 | ||
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 3,747
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No war that was ever waged on earth has ever ended, the just proceed to economic warfare once fighting on the ground is done. It's no joke either, they are all still being waged.
__________________ I think I just ran past myself. http://www.memphisindie.com  I won't use pitch correcting software. I use "coaching" maybe you've heard of it. It keeps working even when you don't have it on. | ||
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8th February 2010
| #243 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 3,747
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Never. | |
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8th February 2010
| #244 | ||
| Lives for gear  | Quote:
there's no way to have a conversation that always ends up with such extremist views...
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8th February 2010
| #245 |
| Gear Guru  Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 15,356
| I agree. Simply asking people to respect laws, and at the same time support artists is so far from child beating..... I don't know what else to say except the nay sayers obviously think they need the most extreme argument to make their point.
__________________ Chris Whitten |
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8th February 2010
| #246 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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You know I think parking ticket like fines are fine. I just want to oppose the stubborn thought that if we hand out enough penalties, this whole nightmare will go away. It won't. It will get worse. That's my biggest fear.
__________________ There's music that serves as entertainment and there's music that is meant to be Art. Art can be entertaining, entertainment can be perceived as Art. But the initial goal is totally different. www.ietmusic.com www.mokosound.com | |
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8th February 2010
| #247 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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9th February 2010
| #248 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: new york
Posts: 361
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Most of what you say at least has some " philosophical" merit, but this statement is just nonsense. Laws are put in place to protect the law abiding people , I think most of us would agree this will be a deterrent. . If pirates want to be vindictive by pushing back and punishing those who are only asking for fair compensation than bring it on. We creative professionals have the ethical and moral high ground in this argument whatever "spin" the naysayers might have . Technology may not be on our side but we will prevail.
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9th February 2010
| #249 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: new york
Posts: 361
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9th February 2010
| #250 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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 . Just visited a studio: musicians hangin' in the launch room discussing what movies are cool to download...  but zorry to the folks who thing the metaphor was over the top; just heard it on a hiphop track where the artist used the quote on the intro (of course illegal; these guys don't even know what clearance is). | |
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9th February 2010
| #251 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: unincorporated marin county
Posts: 1,804
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Others here want people facing hard jail time and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. | |
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9th February 2010
| #252 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
parking tickets for piracy would work. small enough to be fair but large enough to make buying music a better buy. a cottage industry of collection agencies would take on the the collections just like they do with debt now - or the fines could be tacked onto your ISP bill. you can always elect to fight it too. people will hate having to deal with it - it will be just enough of an annoyance to say the hell with it - I'll spend the damn 99 cents... two things will happen 1) piracy will probably drop in half almost over night 2) total music consumption will drop rapidly as well - as a result the paid to piracy ratio may come to something like 70% paid within a year... once that happens we can get a true sense of the marketplace and develop the best possible new models to meet the demands of PAYING CUSTOMERS. that's a hell of lot better than 95% pirated now... | |
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9th February 2010
| #253 |
| Lives for gear  | at this point, we are back on page 2. what boody is saying is that copyright enforcement laws will not result in more money for musicians nor a reduction in piracy. It will, however, result in culling of the stupid from the rest of the herd, improving the efficiency of pirates. If piracy is really the culprit of sales, and thats a big if, track the impact of napster, which was as ******** a piracy app there ever was, vs the impact of bit torrent, which is pretty damn sophisticated technology. They say insanity is doing the same thing each time and expecting different results. Each iteration of copyright enforcement only improved the efficiency of the pirating community, as enforcement does not address the need to pirate nor smoke weed. The idea that money is a driving factor shows me that we may not all truly understand what motivates piracy. I don't think piracy is driven by economics. Metallica could release all their albums for free on their website as mp3s, and I would not be surprised to see that lots of folks would still pirate those identical, free mp3s off whatever dark corner of the net they thrive. |
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9th February 2010
| #254 |
| Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: utah
Posts: 29
| how many laws we're broken while makin ALOT of the music we listen to.have strict drug laws stopped drugs from being used?get real and find another way to make money off music.there is some smart mother f$%^ers out there that will always be one up on the law.  |
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9th February 2010
| #255 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
| Quote:
 Now: what can we do? | |
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9th February 2010
| #256 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 3,747
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" The human being is he only animal stupid enough to go down the same tunnel multiple times think it will get a different result, the definition of insanity." At any rate, the law just changed it's tactics. Just on CNN, the USA (NSA) will be requiring IP monitoring on ALL servers all over the world or they will get shut down. How will you pirate when you have no server? These guys are not playing anymore, this is a very proactive response, they are monitoring ALL servers, everywhere, NOW. It's on people. The gov went for hardcore enforcement. No warnings. They are monitoring for everything now. They are going to see what they come up with. Yes, they can do that, they have had the tech for decades to pull it off. This should affect Denmark, Ivory Coast, France, Russia, and Australia a lot. Fake Euro lotteries, deposed African leaders with millions looking for "honorable sir", Chinese corps with millions to share with "trusted friend", all that crap is going the way of the dinosaur. | |
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9th February 2010
| #257 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Waterford/Cork/Dublin Ireland
Posts: 373
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In the past 10 years we've had more computers more internet access more iPods (some 225,000,000 of them!) more phones with memory more single downloads more bands with better visibility than ever before more people going to more gigs an economic boom cheap credit more disposable income than ever before The world's economy doubled in size from U.S. $30.21 to U.S. $60.59 trillion Yet the music industry is effectively halved? Now IF you accept that piracy IS affecting the industry, then you can 1-try to do something about it (three strikes) 2-do nothing Granted, It's not a very appealing choice we have here, but I'm for 1. What you're suggesting is "three strikes will only cull the stupid, the clever people will go underground and not be caught" What I'd suggest is "three strikes will be a deterrent to the dumbest & in particular the smartest of people. In fact it will probably be the smart ones who realise that 99c is a lot less hassle than getting a $100 fine or having their internet cut off" "the 'middle'-tier of intelligence will likely follow suit also" | |
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9th February 2010
| #258 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: new york
Posts: 361
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9th February 2010
| #259 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Waterford/Cork/Dublin Ireland
Posts: 373
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Yeah I agree education is important, but no amount of education will ever compete with free......sorry to bang on about this, but if we're ever gonna curb piracy the attack must be two pronged.....legislation & education | |
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9th February 2010
| #260 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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To fine them you need to be able to find them. Remember the high school kids that sold the copied cassettes form top40 broadcasts? | |
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9th February 2010
| #261 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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9th February 2010
| #262 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 840
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__________________ I am on Twitter now - http://twitter.com/AudioWonderland MySpace http://www.myspace.com/rusticgem http://www.myspace.com/orionsodyssey Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCHl6gMDnUM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZDyCytDoqQ | |
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9th February 2010
| #263 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 840
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9th February 2010
| #264 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
think about water. they pulled it off. it's not even a better product in many cases. | |
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9th February 2010
| #265 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
Thereby the pirates who are smart will not cease making the pirate market more efficient. They are not influenced by price nor economics. Think about napster: it was by far the easiest mean of pirating. Download an executable, key in a song, download it. It was shut down in 2001 or so. How much better would the industry have been if napster had been allowed to continue? Would people have been driven to more efficient / massive means of piracy? Now, instead of a single song, people download entire catalogs / discographies. by your argument, leaving napster alone would be better. I claim--it just doesn't matter. Piracy might account for 10% drop. Yes, it is uncertainty and unhealthy because of that: is an artist a failure because of piracy or other factors? Might be hard to tell. But: Consider the beatles boxsets. Why would they sell out, esp when one could assumably download the entire thing? Isn't that competition vs free? | |
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9th February 2010
| #266 |
| Lives for gear | the numbers... * 95% of music is illegally distributed - legal music sales are $6 Billion in the USA. * so $6 billion = 5% of total music consumption * that would mean if 100% of the music in the hands of consumers was purchased it would total $120 Billion ($6B x 20 = $120 Billion or 100%). * so even if piracy could be reduced so that the only 10% of music consumed were purchased annual revenue would be $12 Billion (double what it is now and pretty close to where it was before p2p took hold) * if piracy were reduced to just the degree where 85% were pirated leaving 15% as legitimate sales would mean $18 billion in legitimate revenue in the USA alone * just moving the needle from 5% legitimate sales to 15% legitimate sales is a massive game changer... $18 billion in revenue which would be a new peak for recorded music sales * I don't think anyone needs to argue that legitimate sales would be 120 Billion if piracy we're eliminated - but a quick look at the numbers above and the facts below show that there can be a huge positive change with just a relatively small reduction of piracy... EDUCATION AND PIRACY PARKING TICKETS... EDUCATION AND PIRACY PARKING TICKETS... these are the facts: - music sales began a rapid decline at the introduction of file-sharing  - after ten years of unchecked filesharing music sales have reduced 50% Music's lost decade: Sales cut in half in 2000s - Feb. 2, 2010 - 1% of torrent content is non-infringing Survey: Only 1% of Torrents non-infringing • The Register - 95% of all digitally distributed music is illegal 95% of music downloads are illegal | Music | guardian.co.uk |
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9th February 2010
| #267 | ||||
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 3,747
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Finding them is now the easy part. Quote:
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http://www.cnn.com/China: Hacker tra... show details I'm not sure that's the right link though. I don't think they provided one. | ||||
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9th February 2010
| #268 | ||
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 837
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This the link? China: Large hacker training Web site shut down - CNN.com | ||
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10th February 2010
| #269 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2010.pdf where does it say 95% piracy in the us? it does say in the us sales fell 30%. you can't have 95% piracy and sale hits of only 30%, that would imply that people were pirating music they already owned (possible I guess). it also says only one in five people in europe pirate music. so to me that says a 20% piracy rate in the EU, which means 80% of the population is just not spending money on music either. that number might be true for china, maybe lower for brazil and maybe a bit lower for spain. i don't think its true in the usa--would like to see these stats. don't have time to fact check everything, but a couple of those numbers you are listing don't seem right or at the least, sensationalized extrapolations... i think any serious study would have to start in the 1980, and represent totals: vinyl, cassette, cd, digital download, in units, and then another graph of digital dollars + non-digital dollars. | |
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10th February 2010
| #270 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,802
| side consideration: it does not make sense to equate free music pirated to potential sales. in other words....most music that is downloaded for free would NOT be paid for if that was the only alternative. recorded music has become devalued in the culture to the point where if suddenly all music had to be paid for....overall music downloading (paid for downloading that is) would plummet in popularity compared to TOTAL downloading (illegal plus legal) as it stands NOW. i get the sense that many (or even most) tracks that people download these days are optional....they could be taken or left....and that if they had to pay for every single one they would simply download way less music. none of this is support the continuation of the current unsupportable situation (which is so fragmented and chaotic that it cannot really be called a "system")......so this is just a comment.....not a solution.
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