What can we do?

[memphisindie]

I like your post, Dave, I think we pretty much agree on everything.
I think computers are going to be the CD/DVD player of the future and with that we needn't rely on MP3 for music, we could have a format that is extremely difficult to copy, a superdisc would really work well there.

Our gov. has opted for extremely hardcore enforcement, we can provide the educational material, and text.

I know to keep any business going you have to educate the consumer, and you have to educate the content provider when necessary.
I also agree that POS material CAN be valuable to consumers. Just has to trickle out to "the lucky".

How much is too much?
I'd say look at historical data from the hayday of getting paid, and mimic that, not so much the over-proliferation of T-shirts and CD's, but, what the consumer got, what got bought. I can relate to your anecdote of getting too much schwag, been here for eons, first my mother worked at a record store and i had he coolest (possibly largest) rock T-shirt collection, then my uncle and cousin were super big time light guys, so, more rock stuff, then my brother was one of the biggest label promo guys around, so, more stuff, then my own career took off and I got more CD's and shirts, hats, etc. than I could handle, about 35 years worth.
What we in the biz get is ridiculous as far as schwag, yet, when we get it, we always like it.
Kiss posters too, haha.

[drp audio]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

I like your post, Dave, I think we pretty much agree on everything.
I think computers are going to be the CD/DVD player of the future and with that we needn't rely on MP3 for music, we could have a format that is extremely difficult to copy, a superdisc would really work well there.

Our gov. has opted for extremely hardcore enforcement, we can provide the educational material, and text.

I know to keep any business going you have to educate the consumer, and you have to educate the content provider when necessary.
I also agree that POS material CAN be valuable to consumers. Just has to trickle out to "the lucky".

How much is too much?
I'd say look at historical data from the hayday of getting paid, and mimic that, not so much the over-proliferation of T-shirts and CD's, but, what the consumer got, what got bought. I can relate to your anecdote of getting too much schwag, been here for eons, first my mother worked at a record store and i had he coolest (possibly largest) rock T-shirt collection, then my uncle and cousin were super big time light guys, so, more rock stuff, then my brother was one of the biggest label promo guys around, so, more stuff, then my own career took off and I got more CD's and shirts, hats, etc. than I could handle, about 35 years worth.
What we in the biz get is ridiculous as far as schwag, yet, when we get it, we always like it.
Kiss posters too, haha.

Noted.

My turn to "with all due respect" you my friend!

I was quite intent on a file that is very copy-proof or at least copy-resistant, even spoke in great lengths with an awesome programmer friend of mine about it but the bottom line, as far as I can see, is that ultimately the consumer needs to enjoy the file without a funky tone or any evidence of encryption. That being the case, any one pirate could simply take the signal from the headphone jack or line out of their listening device and create a new file without any tones.

If just one person does that and p2p or torrent's that new file then it will go viral from there, easily bypassing the encryption? If I am wrong please let me know because I have to maintain my track record of being right all of the time!!

My programmer friend suggested writing the player software into the disc or file, like many CD-ROM & DVD-ROM discs. That may have some potential. I also wondered about a format/codec that had an encrypted digital signal with the decoder built right into the earphones or speakers. Send an encrypted digital signal to the decoder/speaker. That would be too clunky and proprietary, I think. It always leads back to education, laws, and enforcement IMO.

If I am wrong then somebody please tell me what an idiotic, moronic, piece of crap I am.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by drp audio

Noted.

My turn to "with all due respect" you my friend!

I was quite intent on a file that is very copy-proof or at least copy-resistant, even spoke in great lengths with an awesome programmer friend of mine about it but the bottom line, as far as I can see, is that ultimately the consumer needs to enjoy the file without a funky tone or any evidence of encryption. That being the case, any one pirate could simply take the signal from the headphone jack or line out of their listening device and create a new file without any tones.

If just one person does that and p2p or torrent's that new file then it will go viral from there, easily bypassing the encryption? If I am wrong please let me know because I have to maintain my track record of being right all of the time!!

My programmer friend suggested writing the player software into the disc or file, like many CD-ROM & DVD-ROM discs. That may have some potential. I also wondered about a format/codec that had an encrypted digital signal with the decoder built right into the earphones or speakers. Send an encrypted digital signal to the decoder/speaker. That would be too clunky and proprietary, I think. It always leads back to education, laws, and enforcement IMO.

If I am wrong then somebody please tell me what an idiotic, moronic, piece of crap I am.

Ha ha, where do we go now that we've both "all due respected" each other?

I think, if you took three bandwidths predetermined, made a digital watermark, and split it among those three bandwidths, and put a decoding pointer to tell decoder what bands to look for it in on the disc, but, not the decoder, which would be e-prommed onto a chip in the player. You could disguise the signals by having them relate to the music in volume of the signal for what would normally be present in that bandwidth and mimicking the audio that would have been there, replacing it or just mixed with it, so, it wouldn't be audible or distinguishable by ear. That way, even if you record it through the headphone jack or whatever, you still get the signal and can't pass it through for illegal distribution effectively. You could have the decoder key relate to the serial # and any added upgrade keys. It would be a PITA to get rid of. You could also put a hypersonic signal in the file that would literally say "This is a stolen song" repeatedly once decoded (which would make the inventor of that tech happy to have another use) and it would sound like it was coming from inside their heads, which would freak them out. A secondary bonus.
It would take a little work with tech that already exists, but, isn't used for this purpose yet.

[drp audio]

Hey, is WADR a text shortie yet? (Doesn't look to good if you just read it without finding the right words.)

Hmm, it's hard for me to imagine something that would not affect the sound, but then digital watermarking an audio file is a new concept to me, I'll have to investigate ...

P.S. - I checked out your website a while back. Cindy Bullens is one of our musical sweethearts around these parts. (ME) I've never met Cindy but we have some mutual friends, and Ginger (still her current drummer I believe) is from my neck of the woods.

Cheerio!

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by drp audio

Hey, is WADR a text shortie yet? (Doesn't look to good if you just read it without finding the right words.)

Hmm, it's hard for me to imagine something that would not affect the sound, but then digital watermarking an audio file is a new concept to me, I'll have to investigate ...

P.S. - I checked out your website a while back. Cindy Bullens is one of our musical sweethearts around these parts. (ME) I've never met Cindy but we have some mutual friends, and Ginger (still her current drummer I believe) is from my neck of the woods.

Cheerio!

Wideband Acoustic Data Relay.
Haha. Yeah!
I guess we're talking about multiple narrow bands and digital data. So close.

Cindy B, she IS a sweetie! Great writer and ooh that voice, I miss her. She had a different drummer when I worked with her, but, she's a high quality singer and always has stellar talent with her.
She's got a new group with Deborah Holland and Wendy Waldman, "The Refugees".
New record "Unbound".The Refugees - Unbound
Check out how she did it, "snippets" and "buy its". Ahead of her time. Haha.

[drp audio]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Check out how she did it, "snippets" and "buy its". Ahead of her time. Haha.

Cool, I didn't know about The Refugees.

"snippets" and "buy its", Cindy's no fool. What with her ex and Ludwig and all .... It's like they read the numbered list that redvelvet posted earlier today! (or maybe vice versa)

Nice web site too, clean, easy to navigate, not too much or too little of anything.

Artists, take note of the web site above!

[memphisindie]

It was a pleasure to tour with her, everywhere we went, someone had a concert going on and crossed paths, invited us over and we hung out before or after their shows for a while. CSN was great.

[rack gear]

some of this is useful:
The 2009 One Hundred - Music Think Tank

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

some of this is useful:
The 2009 One Hundred - Music Think Tank

Did you read that last one by Tommy Boy?
Couldn't let it slide.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Did you read that last one by Tommy Boy?
Couldn't let it slide.

this one:

5: Be A Contrarian

Whatever other artists are doing in recording, performance and marketing…do the opposite.

- Tom Silverman

[boody]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

some of this is useful:
The 2009 One Hundred - Music Think Tank

Thanks! Great link 8)

[boody]

this is what I find interesting:



Source: Bridge Ratings

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

this one:

5: Be A Contrarian

Whatever other artists are doing in recording, performance and marketing…do the opposite.

- Tom Silverman

Nope, this one"
1: Pick A Niche And Dominate*It - The 2009 One Hundred - Music Think Tank
I think they are picking on somebody who would rather be in the studio making records and that's Tommy. He's great at everything he does but, what made him special was he was different. That last one you posted explains him well. He brought dance music back.

[rack gear]

well - not everyone is an adventure seeker. I think the stats are encouraging - considering. I like pandora's model as it's not 100% on demand and helps new artists, and they respect artists rights and payments.... needs work, but good start.

Originally Posted by boody

this is what I find interesting:



Source: Bridge Ratings

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

well - not everyone is an adventure seeker. I think the stats are encouraging - considering. I like pandora's model as it's not 100% on demand and helps new artists, and they respect artists rights and payments.... needs work, but good start.

The percentages are so close to the margin of error that it's a toss up. Which is very cool.

[chrisso]

Pandora was a good start, but I believe they had to scrap it outside the U.S.

[boody]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Pandora was a good start, but I believe they had to scrap it outside the U.S.

Yes, it's U.S. only now. We can't even get Spotify here, thanks to our copyright protect organization.

[crufty]

i love pandora, discovered it because of this thread. it has introduced me to artists i didn't know about, and albums from artists i liked that i forgot i liked--does that make sense at all?

If there was a way to tag a song on my blueray player and then have a lossless purchase waiting for me on my pc (for the right price), that would complete the transaction circle.

anyway...i was looking at the keepartalive site and had a few suggestions. what is the best way to do so?