"no name yet" - New studio build in Norway!

[keyboardwizard]

possible wall layout. (No room treatment added)
any comments?
The yellow area cannot be used, and we have to set up a wall perimeter outside this area. (we can put a door in the wall, and use the garage for loading gear etc.


question: should we angle the controlroom walls?
if so, how much?

or should we maybe make the wall straight, and make a "inside out" wall angled with corner traps, slat absorbers etc?


most pictures i've seen has been with soffitmounted speakers, we have active monitors so thats not an option.
the control room is 28m2 in the drawings. is this large enough to think about angled walls? the measurements
of the control room is: 3,85m x 7,24m (minus wall treatment) 27,8m2 in total.

[erikdrink]

Hei man!
Great to hear your dream come tru!
Where in Norway are you located?

Good luck

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by erikdrink

Hei man!
Great to hear your dream come tru!
Where in Norway are you located?

Good luck

thank you!

our location is just outside Kristiansand.


looking forward to start the building. Just need some planning of the layout of the rooms.
Hopefully someone will give some suggestions here at the forum.
It would have been great if Glenn, Rod, John, Jens, andre or some of the other experienced builders here woud chime in!


this is our current gear we own, and will use in our studio:

daw:
iMac 27" max-specced
27" thunderbolt display
Logic 9 w/ a lot of plugins

soundcard and speakers:
RME fireface UFX
Acoustic Energy AE22 monitors
Adam A7 monitors
beyerdynamic 770

Mics:
Roede condenser (I think it is an NTK/NT1)
SM57
MXL990 condenser
as you see, these mics need a makeover!
we are thinking of buying a Brauner Phantom classic, and a Royer 121 in the beginning

Outboard:
Universal Audio LA-610 MKII


keyboards & synths:
Nord Electro II
Alesis Andromeda A6
Kurzweil PC3X
Korg Stagepiano
some softsynths like Omnisphere etc

Guitars & Amps:
PRS Standard 24
Music Man Steve morse
Axe-FX Ultra
Marshall Mode Four
Marshall 4x12

Bass:
Yamaha TRS1005 5string
Morgan 4string

Acoustic:
Takamine 6string
Yamaha 6 string
12 string guitar
- on the buying list: Martin D28 or semilar.

Drums:
not bought yet. Have not decided for what to go for...
acoustic or electric? the new roland TD30 looks pretty neat.
If electric I will only use it with midi to Superiour drummer2, steven slate or mixosaurus.

[keyboardwizard]

the final buildmeeting is about to be set,
And our local entrepreneur is soon having a peek at our building for suggestions.

Do anyone have any comments about our layout before we go ahead and start the build?

[gullfo]

what is the ceiling height(s)? one important aspect will be isolation on the ceiling to ensure isolation is the same as the walls. the SU drawing shows nice heights, the photos would suggest the ceiling is much lower. what are your plans for air exchange? even song writers need oxygen

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by gullfo

what is the ceiling height(s)? one important aspect will be isolation on the ceiling to ensure isolation is the same as the walls. the SU drawing shows nice heights, the photos would suggest the ceiling is much lower. what are your plans for air exchange? even song writers need oxygen

Thank you for your comment!

The ceiling height will be about 2,5m. the overall height is about 2,8, but the three steel support frames builds about 30cm down, so the "false" ceiling will drop down from here. that's why the SU looks higher.

I thought of making it like this: "floating ceiling" with double layer of gypsum (12mm on each layer), and 20cm of fluffy rockwool, all edges caulked and sealed. and the ceiling is not in contact with the walls, just caulked at the edges.
This will be enough to match the STC63 double walls right? we will build the walls all the way to the upper roof.

We will have doors at both ends of the control room, and we have a large garageport, and two windows on the other side to exchange the air during the day. It will not be a commercial studio at the moment, so no HVAC for us yet. If needed in the future we will install a airconditioner.


added a crappy fast edited picture. havn't scaled anything right here, just a fast illustration. But it is important to do the middle wall section all the way up to the roof right to don't allow any airgap between the roofs?

[peelproductions]

Hi there,
That looks like a single leaf ceiling to me and I doubt it will keep up with the walls.
What exactly is the roof made of, it looks like thin steel or corrugated iron?
I stuffed up my ceiling in my current studio and it really sucks for drums bass and heavy gears so I think you need to revisit this area of you build.
JohnG

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by peelproductions

Hi there,
That looks like a single leaf ceiling to me and I doubt it will keep up with the walls.
What exactly is the roof made of, it looks like thin steel or corrugated iron?
I stuffed up my ceiling in my current studio and it really sucks for drums bass and heavy gears so I think you need to revisit this area of you build.
JohnG

yes, it is sort of single-leaf:

Gypsum-gypsum-4"wood-20cm isolation-steel roof.

But if the sound is going to escape, it has to go through the first ceiling, into the first wall, and the second wall.
...Or alternatively up both roofs to the outside of the house, and then in through the roof on the other side. agree or am i missing something?

attatched picture to illustrate my thoughts.
The blue "razor-lines" are soundwaves

[peelproductions]

Hi there,

Sorry to bum you out but from my own experiences with a ceiling construction like this it will not stop drums, bass or heavy loud guitarists. Roofing iron is very light weight.

Sure it will help, maybe 50db, but don't fool yourself and think that people outside the studio, up to twenty meters away will not clearly here these instruments getting played.

My studio has a very similar ceiling and is 10 meters from our house and you can hear me drumming inside the house with all the doors closed, especially bass drum and floor tom.

You need to beef up the bottom of the existing roof with two layers of mass like mdf or plasterboard and then hang the new ceiling with isolating clips from the joists or even better sit new joists on the new walls.

JohnG

[gullfo]

+1 JohnG

definitely need to beef up the roof and ensure you account for venting, moisture etc. and leave the inner air space open, no need to build the inner walls up to the roof. you will have either achieved the isolation you need from the rooms and exterior enhancements or not. leaving the air space opened up inside should help reduce the air spring overall.

[keyboardwizard]

Don't misunderstand me - Your input is highly appreciated!

I understand your opinion from a "outside the room" point of view,
but the neighbours are nothing to worry about, since we don't practically have any.
my only concern is leaking of sound between the controlroom and liveroom.

So.. if you don't think about people outside, and the only concern is the controlroom vs liveroom factor.. do you still think that it is not enough?

this is a new illustration of the soundlevels. once again with my amazing paint skills... :D
It's not calculated very well btw.




agree, or is it something else I don't think about?

[Demor]

The steel wiil act as a amplifier in a certain freq range. The sound doesn't have to go outside.

Maybe you could cut the steel and close the opening with some sort of flexible roofing. Only if the steel isn't a part of the construction of course.

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by Demor

The steel wiil act as a amplifier in a certain freq range. The sound doesn't have to go outside.

Maybe you could cut the steel and close the opening with some sort of flexible roofing. Only if the steel isn't a part of the construction of course.

yeah, I can understand that... I didn't thought of that

I can't cut the roof because it is a rented flat.
but I could maybe dampen the roof with floating insulation spray. (the one that expands), that will stop most of the resonance and cost very much less than a second roof construction.
But i'll look into our building budget and see what is possible to do with our limited budget. Wood, insulation & gypsum is fairly expensive here in Norway

[Demor]

Maybe it is cheaper to dampen the steel with rockwool pressed against it, then a small airgap and then the rockwool/gypsum construction?

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by Demor

Maybe it is cheaper to dampen the steel with rockwool pressed against it, then a small airgap and then the rockwool/gypsum construction?

that's possible. I'll check it out for sure, thanks for the input!

[keyboardwizard]

I'm twisting my head around to think of what room layout that would be the best...
I came up with this new one.
the CR is about 4x7m, and the rest is LR (except for the yellow area which cannot be used).

I havn't added any sloped walls, treatment or anything into the sketches yet.
Then it comes to room symmetry, window in the front instead of right at the first reflection points at the left side which is one of the issues with the first drawings, I think this one is better..
what do you think?

havn't added the doors from the liveroom into the control room, but thats intended to be at the bottom right.

[DirkB]

Do yourself a favour and hire a professional acoustician. You will save yourself money, headaches and get much, much more out of a very cool space you have there.
Been through this myself and sorry to say this - it sounds harsh and I do not want to be negative - but from your questions I can tell that I was much closer to being able to draw something up myself than you are. And you haven't even begun on the inner acoustics, which is much more complicated than the relatively easy isolation stuff.

Seriously, if this is your dream, get it right from the beginning. PM me if you're interested in finding somebody that can truly help you.

Best of luck,
Dirk

[keyboardwizard]

Originally Posted by DirkB

Do yourself a favour and hire a professional acoustician. You will save yourself money, headaches and get much, much more out of a very cool space you have there.
Been through this myself and sorry to say this - it sounds harsh and I do not want to be negative - but from your questions I can tell that I was much closer to being able to draw something up myself than you are. And you haven't even begun on the inner acoustics, which is much more complicated than the relatively easy isolation stuff.

Seriously, if this is your dream, get it right from the beginning. PM me if you're interested in finding somebody that can truly help you.

Best of luck,
Dirk

thanks for your reply!
I will maybe consider to hire an acoustician, but I'll try to sort some designplans out myself first.
My sketchups are a mess, but I just want to illustrate different locations for the CR.