Need Help! would this be good for a studio?

[tylerjbrown]

hello! first, i think this is my first post and id like to thank everyone for all the great posts! i've learned so much from this site!
well soon my schooling will be done and i'll have to put my big boy pants on and i'm hoping to open a studio, not just record out of peoples bedrooms!
so what i have is a bunch of pictures of a potential place. right now my band practices there, but basically its a big barn. the one half has a heater/inulation, running water etc and thers electricity throughout, but the other half is pretty much used for animals now.theres electricity on this side too. its pretty gross, but nothing a lot a cleaning couldnt take care of. we'd be getting rid of the animals or putting them in a shed outside.i tried taking as many pictures as i could, check it out, let me know what you think. when i have the time i'll try to draw up a little layout type deal.
its 1500 sq feet.
also, if it does look like a good idea, do you think it'd cost much? i have no neighbors for more than a half mile, so it doesnt have to be completely soundproof lol

[gouge]

i guess the first question is "do you own the property?"

that would have a big impact on the fitout in my books.

not having neighbours will save you a lot of money. as long as you don't hear rain or traffic/planes your are all good to not soundproof the external shell.

but, it's not cheap.

completely off the cuff i'd leave the main space as is and at one end build a suitable sized control room and throw the money at the control room isolation and acoustic treatments. the do the minimal to the live space to get you over the line (yeah that's a bit grey, you will need some decibel readings to know for sure)

you make mention of a business, so, toilets, dissabled access, fire regs, public liability etc need to be thought of.

best thing is to design what you want, then cost it, then redesign it, then cost it again, then get approvals (if needed) then build.

allow for budget blow outs, i'd say keep a 20% contingency sum and whatever time frame you think it will take to build, double it. to do it on the cheap, you will need to diy every single piece of the puzzle but allow for contractors for anything relating to local codes.

although it's boring you need spreadsheets and lots of them. cost every nut and bolt. cover everything. if you don't know what everything entails you should stop and get some professionals onboard.

then once you know you costs, figure out if your funding/business plan will cover your outlay. put aside 1 day of every week to find new clients/advertise. especially when you are flat out and don't have time.

the other option is to just chuck your gear in there, (one big space) make some movable treatmnts and get down to the business of making good music. build up a client base and philosophy and then move forward. you still may need toilets approvals etc for this.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by tylerjbrown

hello! first, i think this is my first post and id like to thank everyone for all the great posts! i've learned so much from this site!
well soon my schooling will be done and i'll have to put my big boy pants on and i'm hoping to open a studio, not just record out of peoples bedrooms!
so what i have is a bunch of pictures of a potential place. right now my band practices there, but basically its a big barn. the one half has a heater/inulation, running water etc and thers electricity throughout, but the other half is pretty much used for animals now.theres electricity on this side too. its pretty gross, but nothing a lot a cleaning couldnt take care of. we'd be getting rid of the animals or putting them in a shed outside.i tried taking as many pictures as i could, check it out, let me know what you think. when i have the time i'll try to draw up a little layout type deal.
its 1500 sq feet.
also, if it does look like a good idea, do you think it'd cost much? i have no neighbors for more than a half mile, so it doesnt have to be completely soundproof lol

you can spend as much as you have or can borrow
or
you can spend nothing

what will the animals think about losing their warm home and being outside in the rain every day ?

who do you think wants to record in a barn?
at any price?
even if they pay, how many customers can you get every week? month? year? future??

do you have a business plan?
have you considered taxes, insurance, security, saving for gear replacement , paying the workers, etc??
what about competition?
how many potential customers?
how do you persuade them to use you?

if you want a place for your band go for it.
get real if you think you are going to have a going biz.

[tylerjbrown]

thanks for the fast reply! that one room, looks like a shithole shower, has water running to it. when i draw up some plans, i'll show more, but basically im hoping for that corner of that part of the building to a bathroom. yes, my family owns the property. no noise from traffic or anything.

like i said i'll draw up a blueprint type plan tomorrow and upload. im thinking codes and stuff wont be too much of a problem, i live on 60 acres in a farm town in the middle of ohio, not too many people poking their heads out. and eventually, when i know for sure i have the funds for this project, i'll be making up a business plan. i have some experience with writing that kinda stuff (and spreadsheets and cost sheets etc etc). Im definitely going to make sure im ready financially before anything. i know something like this is gonna take a lot of time and money and patience haha! hopefully my budget affords some upgrades in gear, but if not i have enough to start with.

[gouge]

good stuff,

sounds like you've got your head screwed on right! all the best getting it up and running.

don't worry about the codes. all you do is find out what they are and then satisfy them. it really is that easy.

one big advantage you have from a design point is that with no real noise issues you have a lot of flexibility.

when you do you planning, identify the potential views, solar orientation etc. then make the most of what you have.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by gouge

allow for budget blow outs, i'd say keep a 20% contingency sum and whatever time frame you think it will take to build, double it. to do it on the cheap, you will need to diy every single piece of the puzzle but allow for contractors for anything relating to local codes.

If it takes twice as long as you planned, (1) you are damn lucky, and (2) that time costs you money, DIY or not! Can you afford 3x the time and money of your worst schedule and cost scenarios? If so, proceed! If not, be prepared for the day that you spend 2x what you ever thought you would spend, only to find yourself 50% short of what you had hoped would be a studio.

[gouge]

Originally Posted by Clueless

If it takes twice as long as you planned, (1) you are damn lucky, and (2) that time costs you money, DIY or not! Can you afford 3x the time and money of your worst schedule and cost scenarios? If so, proceed! If not, be prepared for the day that you spend 2x what you ever thought you would spend, only to find yourself 50% short of what you had hoped would be a studio.

yes, i guess we have all been there to some degree. but the reality is that if your cost ends up 3 times the budget based on your final design drawings then it can be because,

the drawings weren't adequate, the scope changed during construction, there was many unforseen issues with the existing building or the costing was poorly done or weather issues occurred.

a 20% final contingency is high in real terms. generally you allow around 50% contingency based on sketch design costings, 30% contingency based on design development costings and 10-15% based on final drawings costings.

it all comes down to planning.

[tylerjbrown]

thanks for all the words so far! you guys think i could make my own ventilation type deal with that old heater? i figured i could come up with something that carries the heat effectively to each room.

and does anyone know any good program to draw up some 3D plans?

and i will definitely remember to plan every move out before hand, as mentioned. i have some experience planning and budgeting projects, and i know to keep the worst possible scenario in mind for everything. i've got no real deadline or anything yet, and no commitment, so right now i'm just in the "is this going to be possible" phase! haha i will definitely let you guys know what ends up happening, and when/if i start i'll keep you all up to date.

do the dimensions themselves look like theyd work? 10 1/2 foot ceilings, and this is just the one half. the other half is identical in area etc, just very gross right now because of the animals. 1500 sq ft. i figure one half of the building would be nice for tracking/iso booth(s) and the other half good enough for control room and a lounge/bathroom/small kitchen type thing. thoughts?

[tylerjbrown]

also a few more things:
i own the property.
the one half that isnt pictured isnt finished, so i know that will probably be a good chunk of change to begin with.
i am aware of basic acoustic treatment stuff, but not much more than basic.
theres running water and a water heater, so getting a bathroom together wont be as big of a headache.
i plan on making this a legit studio, but i know a lot of studios around here sorta fly under the radar of zoning and things like that. would that be a good idea? i live in the middle of rural NE ohio, and you cant even see the place from the road. i feel like zoning type people would just cause me to spend more money on things that arnt necessarily a problem. you know how they can be, any advice on that?

im having my friend come down soon to check it out, and to talk about what he does and doesnt comply with zoning code around here. he's worked on pretty much most of mushroomheads stuff, and has a very nice studio, so hopefully hes got some advice. i'll let you know what he says

also, i know this is close to impossible to judge, but say all my planning/budgeting and everything was done by the beginning of the year, and say i had the funds together. how long do you think it'd take to do any work that needs done to it, finish the one side, construct the walls/windows, finish those, and acoustically treat the place? any ballpark idea from someone who's been in a similar situation?

[gouge]

10 foot plus ceilings is a good thing. if you can remove the ceiling linings in any part and get higher then even better in your live room.

[tylerjbrown]

i started making lists of everything that is going to be essential to have in the studio and stuff that will need done. let me know if im missing anything! (im sure i am). keep in mind this is very general/vague as im still in the early stages. and i'm trying to keep it as minimalist as possible right now just to start up. that being said, some stuffmight seem not minimalist, and thats because i own a lot of stuff that will be going into this, like certain kitchen supplies, mics, recording gear etc etc



A) Construction
-estimate from drywall company for all walls/ceilings (finish tracking room) then cost out how much it would all cost me to do myself.

-new doors, windows
-new flooring
-glass pane between control room and tracking room

-interior paint
-lighting
-new wiring/electric? (more wall outlets)
-heat/AC

B) Furnish
Lounge: couches/chairs, TV setup, table
Kitchenette: sink, oven, microwave, table, coffee maker, countertop,fridge,
Bathroom: toilet, sink

Control room: desk, storage, couch, chairs, acoustic treatment
Tracking room: acoustic treatment, rug(s)

C) Recording
Microphones:
(1) Audix d6
(1)Shure Sm 57
(1)audix i5
(2)audix d2
(1)audix d4 (all these audix mics are here because i have the audix drum mic pack already

(2) SD condensers (not sure what kind yet)
(2) AT 2020
(1) shure sm7b

Cables:
(10>) mic cables (at least 20’)
(2) inst cables
(2) trs cables (for my monitors)

(1) 16 input snake box?(not sure what to do for this yet, could use some input. i want a mic panel type thing, should i just mount a snake box on the wall in the tracking room and run that into my 002?)

Computer:
Computer (laptop/desktop?)
Protools
Interface (Digi 002)
Additional software/programs
New monitors(?) i have some small ones now, but i would def need new ones eventually)

Miscellaneous:
(1) DI box
(8) boom mic stands
(2) low mic stands

seriously, thanks for all the advice so far, and any in the future! this is all so overwhelming, just trying to take baby steps and keep my head in the game. give me any feed back you can! in the process of writing my first draft of my business plan...
-tyler brown

[gouge]

that's a great start. thought i'd add a few more items.

for your gear requirements things i would consider/add.

will you need more than 4 preamps
what is your monitor chain/fold back
do you need outboard gear and how will it be patched
ie, what is your workflow

as you are doing diy don't forget to allow for tools, ie. soldering irons, saws, nailguns, horses etc etc etc..

for your construction list you will need drawings and details for costing.
also, does the existing building need structural work
does your existing electrical equipment need upgrades/filters, most likely....
how will your hvac work?

if it's any help, this is how i approach every project.

start with sketch design,

work up a brief for the design, go through spacial arrangements, what you need from each space, (size, equipment requirements, numbers of people, acoustic requirements etc). outline what you want from the building overall.


then, grab a piece of paper and start drawing stuff up, floor plans only. draw the existing to scale and locate all existing services, indicate site aspect, views, access points etc.

then start to draw the layout, usually numerous versions, massaging it and testing different ideas. then sketch a couple of sections through the building to get an understanding of heights and volumes of spaces.

once you have the layout working functionally there ends the sketch design phase.

then start the design development,


go into more detail, with a building like a studio where it's not standard construction you will need to go into more detail to get a decent cost idea. work out what each wall/ceiling/floor is, (it's construction requirements, isolation requirements etc). look at the connections and makeup of each wall/ceiling/floor/door/window in detail.



start to design draw your electrical layouts and your ceiling/lighting layouts. if you hit a snag go back the the plans and redesign them.

then get a costing.

then look at your acoustic treatment requirements, design your treatments. how are they fixed in place, what is their makeup, detail them. then do a cost run.


also look at the relationship of your gear and work up a diagram. take that diagram and turn it into a connection diagram that indicates patch requirements etc. you can then turn that into a wiring doagram of sorts so you can cost all of that.

i attached some simple diagrams i have done before to give you an idea of the control room diagrams.

you will end up using the diagrams/plans/details etc to populate spreadsheets for costing.

then get a costing on that.

then start construction docs/specifications/schedules and get a final costing.

then build. that's just a simple over view of the reality.