Studio Barn

[ArlosGuitar]

Me and my girlfriend just bought a house on 3 acres in the southeast Michigan area. Unfortunately, the first house were going to buy fell through and now i am back to square 1 with the design phase. I don't have to worry about neighbors so that might save me some time and money. I will post a few pics to start out. I could use some general opinions if anyone has time to spare. Ceiling is 8' (the main support beam is lower). The main poles holding up the support beam obvioulsy have to stay where they are. I might be able to hide one in the wall between the control room and the live room but i fear the other one being an issue.

It will be a slow process that will hopefully be starting as soon as i get a plan. I will continue to update cad pics as i go along. I will be documenting the whole process.

I will start with a few pictures and general cad drawings.

[JoaT]

Upstairs with windows is badass! You can make it a control room straight out of Bond movies. The evil overlord's cave. Just get a cat to pet all the time while sitting in your chair.

Seriously, the windows are cool, and if I were you, I would not loose them.

[ArlosGuitar]

The windows upstairs are most def. staying. I was thinking about putting the control room upstairs but then i lose natural visuals from the control room and the live room/voc booth. My plan is to build a room inside a room downstairs so i guess i would be able to control the amount of noice transferred upstairs to the control room. ugggg, i had plans drafted and done for the other house and now with this setup i'm a little confused as to where to even start my planning.

I am intregued with the idea of having the control room upstairs and leaving such a nice big live room. What do i do about the posts that will end up in the middle of the room. How will they affect the sound or do you think they would be fine just having them in the middle of a full live room?

[JoaT]

If you are talking about posts such as the one in the picture, I would say it is sonically quite irrelevant. Sure, it will reflect sound too, but the surface area is so miniscule it should not matter in most situations. The other, and more significant thing is if they matter to people trying to work there. If they make moving things in and out a pain, or make it impossible to set the stuff up in a certain way, it's a different story.

But looking at the pictures I think you have plenty of room for just about anything.

How about starting with making upstairs a large space where you can track and mix at the same room? That way you'll get the thing going relatively fast, and can think the live room / booths later on. If you want and the structure allows you to, you could even make the other end a full height space by removing part of the subfloor and have the controlroom upstairs with a view downstairs.

My intention is not to steer you in any particular direction. Just throwing ideas as you seemed to want some input.

[PaulMac]

It looks like that upstairs could be the perfect control room. I'd love to have something like that to start off with, and the live room downstairs could be awesome too.
Good luck. I'll check back as often as I can to see how you're getting on and further envy you

[heyman]

hey, cant you blow out the floors and just open the whole thing up, keeping the support beams, of course...

High ceilings? what do you think?

[ArlosGuitar]

All valid points. I don't think the posts will be an issue when it comes to moving around or setting up. If anything is kind of a bummer it would be the ceiling height. Nothing I can really do about that. It is what is is. I was a little worried about the space trying to jam a live room, vocal booth and control room within that space though. Just sketching it out on paper i feel i lose too much live room space by adding the control room downstairs.

I really like the idea of having the control room upstairs and all the live rooms downstairs. I'd have to put in a camera and nice intercom system. I wonder about the seperation feeling i might get between the two rooms though. I did imagine the possibility of a window in the floor.

I see myself going up and down the stairs a lot setting mics and such. This is such an unconventional setup but the more and more i start to plan and get ideas i really think this could be a sweet studio.

And yes i welcome any and all ideas.

[ArlosGuitar]

Originally Posted by heyman

hey, cant you blow out the floors and just open the whole thing up, keeping the support beams, of course...

High ceilings? what do you think?

No because the second floor walls and conventional roof is supported by the ceiling of the first floor. I could cut in a box on either side of the main support beams for a window.

Even with low ceilings and proper treatment you can achive very good quality recordings. I can live with the ceiling height esp. considering the floor space i have to work with (keeping the control room upstairs).

I might even go for 2 live rooms and one vocal booth. I need one live room big enough to use as a practice space for my band. I'll get a better feel when i get in there, gut it out and get the band in there to feel it out.

[JoaT]

Again, just a suggestion.. For your design needs, check out Google's SketchUp. It should be fairly easy to use and you can even design the color schemes, materials and such.

Seems to be the "industry standard" for this kind of planning nowadays. Price / performance / learning curve ratio is pretty much unbeatable.

[ArlosGuitar]

Well I just finished a new design idea for the first floor. I think i'm pretty convinced in making the upstairs the control room.

This design gives me a total of 3 rooms. One of which would be a vocal room and the other i was thinking maybe an instrument/amp room. I worry a little about bass trapping with this design but i'm sure i could work them bugs out. Picture the drums/amps set up on the bigger end of the main live room and my upright piano set up on the smaller end. I could kill 2 birds with one stone and not have to ever move the piano.

Tell me what you guys think. I'm guessing i would have to have some good bass trapping where the 2 pockets are. I could always bring the walls straight down but then i have wasted space.

[ArlosGuitar]

Also i was thinking of slanting the ceiling in the main live towards the center beam from each wall.

[zijon]

Hey thanks for your post. Our ground floors really look alike! What do you mean with the "pockets"?
Both our designs have flaws and advantages. You have the larger control room (BIG advantage), I have the direct visuals and the higher ceiling in the live room. Let's stay in touch. If I am able to get some measurements done before you start your build perhaps I can help you pimp your design. if the necessity arises, that is.

[zijon]

oh an by the way i do think the posts could be an issue in your live room. they will be good candidates for transporting some of that sonic energy to the ceiling and your control room beyond. If I were you I'd plan some extra space for encasing them. the extra reflective space could be treated with some diffusers.

[gouge]

i liked Zijon's solutions to his layout. certainly everyone would have a slightly different take on how things should work and different room size views but to me it seemed to be going in the right direction.

seems that A frame/barn type buildings are very commonly used for studios in the colder parts of the world. seems also like there could be a solution that would suit a lot these type of buildings with a few tweaks to suit existing conditions.

i was wondering with your place whether the stairs on your sketch are existing. i was also wondering if you have plumbing at one end? looks like you do in the photos. if your sketch included things like existing plumbing/services locations and window locations i'm sure something could be sorted.

that said.

for me i'd definitley look to take advantage of the height avaliable as others have said. if you were worried about the structural support for the external walls (which is valid) you could move the void into the centre of the floor plan and trim it out with bearers. similar to if you cut a new stair through the floor. that allows you to leave the external wall connections alone and still get your void.

i also like the idea of the control room being upstairs. just needs some thought into what gear will need to be taken up there and access of course.

with your plan i wouldn't put the ground floor rooms opposite each other as shown. you get left with an odd space inbetween and with a 1st floor control room potentially at least one of your rooms won't have a line of sight. if you were to locate the control room up stairs at one end and then have your 2 rooms together downstairs at the opposite end you get one big live room and a direct line of sight into both rooms on the ground floor at the opposite end. ie. from the control room you can see at least half of the live space and both tracking rooms. it would depend on where your stairs are also.

then over the 2 downstairs tracking rooms i would potentially have the lounge/kit/toilet mezzanine. again visible from the control room. that's just a start to be honest and would need further testing and could completely change as you test out the possible outcomes. the downside is the cable run from the control room to the tracking room is a fair distance which has a cost and signal quality outcome.

one thing i also notice with a lot of designs is the lack of storage, amenities and natural light. i'd make sure you address that as well.

anyways, hope that provides a few more options to play with.

[gullfo]

you could open 1/2 the 2nd floor for the live room with the CR on the 2nd floor and a large set of windows overlooking the live room, and then use video for the isolation booths under the CR. this would give you live views to the main area and the live room would have live views to the isolation booths. the roof windows would then provide light into both the live room and CR. you could extend the CR space over the section by the stairs to increase the volume of the CR.

[ArlosGuitar]

Thanks for the input. Yes the stairs are existing. I do love the idea of opening up half to take advantage of the ceiling height. I would have to consult an engineer to handle structural supporting. That would be my biggest concern. Cost might be a factor. At some point it would be cheaper to tear it down and start from scratch.

I'm going to work on a few more cad drawings later tonight showing small tweaks in my initial design.

There are a few nice things about the space i have to work with.

1. For a home studio it sure is big compaired to the last house we were going to buy.

2. It's a seperate structure apart from the house. (I can get away from the girls and they can get away from the noise)

There are some really good ideas that you guys bring to the table. I love how passionate everyone on this site is about other peoples work.

[ArlosGuitar]

Here are a few more sketches with a bit more detail. I have taken the parallel walls away. Labeled the rooms and slightly modified the iso rooms. This design would put the control room and lounge upstairs.

I will be looking into the possibility of opening up the floor but i have to talk with an engineer and weigh my options.

I'm not too worried about line of sight. I am more worried about the support beam/columns. With this design i can hide both columns within the walls seperating the iso's and live room.

As for storage with this design i would have plenty of room upstairs.

How do you guys think the shape of the live room would sound though.

[Downsound]

Originally Posted by gullfo

you could open 1/2 the 2nd floor for the live room with the CR on the 2nd floor and a large set of windows overlooking the live room, and then use video for the isolation booths under the CR. this would give you live views to the main area and the live room would have live views to the isolation booths. the roof windows would then provide light into both the live room and CR. you could extend the CR space over the section by the stairs to increase the volume of the CR.

Like Electric Audio here in Chicago!! That's the control room up top!

[gouge]

the barn reminded me of electrical audio as well. there's a lot of high tech design concepts going on the AE rooms including bass pressure into the basement. (from what i've read)

hi arlos,

i mucked around last night and sketch up a few outcomes. these are only ideas but i figured i'd have a go as your barn got me inspired. i did a version 4 as well that has the ground floor iso to ideal dimensions but it's my least preferred.

[Downsound]

Gouge - I just love the design of the upstairs - looking out of the window you can see the live room AND the iso booth. Can I ask what program you used to draw those up?? They look totally professional!

[ArlosGuitar]

WOW, Thanks for your time. I really like some of your ideas. Looking at your drawings it really opens up more possibilities. I wasn't really planning on moving the stairs but it would open up many more design optons. What program did you use to design? Is it compatable with AutoCAD? I would like to see them drawings on a bigger scale if possible.

[gouge]

thanks for the comments guys. definitely appreciated. thumbsup

the drawings were done in autocad.

i must admit it was a bit cheeky designing something without a brief or any idea of where all of the views are, which way north is or even a budget. it was all done based on assumptions taken from the photos.

at the end of the day, it's all just lines on paper. wall thicknesses are nominal. the actual location and size of existing windows is not known and you would need an acoustic engineer to do a run on your design once finalised. what my sketches are trying to address are relationships of space, light and amenity, "perceived" view corridors, function and very basic acoustics.

arlos, no problems giving all of my sketches. i sent you a pm re emailiing the drawings. as mentioned they are yours to do with what you will.

cheers......

[gouge]

not sure if you're still around arlosguitar?

i pulled out those initial sketches last night and did another run on all 3. those first sketches were very rough.

[Demor]

The third option looks best to me.

[gouge]

the sherif may arrest me for hijacking,

i'm partial to all of them, they each have pros and cons. no.3 i guess looks the most resolved and gets the whole ground floor for band recording.

No.2 would be my pick with it's recording areas and social space mix. plus i think it has the same potential as No.1 to create a fantastic volume of space in the live room to encourage the creative juices. I'm still tinkering with the connection between the lobby and the live room on No.2. it just doesn't feel as good as it could be but that could be sort out in time.

[Downsound]

I'm confused by these "jet's outs" in your plans. You have one on the upper level for the bathroom, and one on the lower level for part of the lounge. Are these really needed?? This guy is in MI, so any new foundation is going to have to be below the frost line (4 ft.), and would the uppper additions be on stilts? I'm confused. I don't think these additions are going to be cost effective, especially if he's moving the stairs already. Just my 2 cents.

[gouge]

hi downsound.

that's a fair point,

they were meant as a couple of pods that extend out to gain more space and articulate the elevations and get the watercloset away from being over the iso booth. the watercloset pod could be built from the existing timber joists that are removed to form the void. the backspan can be picked up by the existing floor framing.

the pod in the green room is more like a window box fixed to the side of the building so it doesn't touch the ground. recycled timbers used again. in the case of the option 2 it forms a seat with cushions on it and in the case of option 3 it forms a kitchenette.

the important thing is to keep the new pods a different external finish to differentiate the old and the new.

the smaller pods at the front etc are just timber window frame extensions which could have a pane of glass fixed into them to gain the appropriate sound proofing and articulate the elevations. the walls at the door provide an entry statement and wouldn't touch the ground as well. they would form a wrap with the existing awning roof.

inside the barn the removed existing timber floor sheets can be cut and used to build slat resonators. the existing concrete could be polished. a minimum of windows could be relocated where needed. stairs could be relocated and joists reused to form the pods and the new window boxes.

when i tweaked the design i had a specific aesthetic in mind. i also contemplated the wall beside the stair being brick but ditched that idea as the new footings required under it seemed like a bit to much work and expense. the timber feature wall beside the stair could be clad in recycled timber bought locally. something like weathered horizontal cladding.

i was also thinking the ceiling to the alcove under the control room could start at 2000mm to conceal the existing bearer and form a compressed entry to the live room near the lobby, then rake up toward the external wall once past the exist bearer. depending on clearance and angles a lighting coffer could run along the connection with the external wall to conceal the lighting and provide a wall washing effect. add a couple of big uplighters on the upstairs walls to illuminate the ceilings. etc.

reality though is i have no idea of budget.

lots of potential with this barn.

[zijon]

anything happen yet?

[SveinKB]

Wow, this is looking darn good!
I'll be following this.