Real underground project studio!

[Sonic_X]

Hello there,
Like everyone else, i dreaming about a proper place to make music for the really looooong time. Being just an hobby-electronic musician i could not afford to get a big place, so here is what god sent me at present time. Basement, right in my house. This is not 1-2 floors private house, but really old and big 5 floor building. As my music style have very strong basslines and there for studio would be equipped with 2 Adam 10's subs a proper isolation have to have a place, so I'm not disturbing poor neighbors. This basement room was actually an old "storage room", there was so much trash since maybe last 20 years LOL, terrible smell is right away hit my nose....pfff...i find out later, when i take all the shit out, that this was rats...damn, another surprise! Life's never boring hahah, i have to deal with that too! Got some ratatin pills for them breakfast haha, i mixed it up with cement mass that was filled them stinky tunnels. Anyways, the biggest problem on this room is high, as it's only 206cm! I know that this is very low, but thx to Ethan who advised me to treat the whole sealing with 30cm rockwool, which would help in this situation a lot! I know, this would leave me only with 176cm high and I'm not gonna be able to walk in there with my head up, as me 180cm toll hahah. But to work that's good enough and this is what I'm up to really! So, fingers cross.....i started this project!

I also want to say THANK YOU to everyone who help me with this room design, without you guys i would never make it!

Here is how empty room loox

Cheers
Jay

[Sonic_X]

forgot to add plan

[Syncamorea]

Looks good. What's on the floor directly above?

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

Looks good. What's on the floor directly above?

Thanx Syncamorea
There is barbershop, sadly sometimes i hear them walking. So, if 30cm of Rockwool not gonna isolate that. I will add one layer of the drywall as well.

[mikahanau]

Nice to see some german Projects at gearslutz

I wish you all the best

cheers
Mika

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by mikahanau

Nice to see some german Projects at gearslutz

I wish you alle the best

cheers
Mika

Danke Mika

Here is east wall in progress.

Cheers
Jay

[Josh's]

Looks good so far. Good luck with your build. Hi Mika BTW Unfortunately there is no progress in our Düsseldorf studio build (Musikerforum), as the owner is on vacation. I let you know, when I take some pictures.

[PaulP]

Originally Posted by Sonic_X

There is barbershop, sadly sometimes i hear them walking. So, if 30cm of Rockwool not gonna isolate that. I will add one layer of the drywall as well.

Since you're willing to sacrifice 30cm in height I think there are better
isolation methods than just rockwool, though I'm not the one to give you
the details. You may even be able to get by with less thickness which
would allow you to stand up completely.

Paul P

[Sonic_X]

@Josh's Thanx man

Originally Posted by PaulP

Since you're willing to sacrifice 30cm in height I think there are better
isolation methods than just rockwool, though I'm not the one to give you
the details. You may even be able to get by with less thickness which
would allow you to stand up completely.

Paul P

I know that there is better ways to isolate the sealing, and thx for sharing anyways ...but 30cm Rockwool is actually for the absorbing purpose and i just hope that this will do isolation issues as well.

[Sonic_X]

West wall in process

[Sonic_X]

Some more progress...

By the way, i didn't know that even caulk tubes are bigger in US than in EU, so my normal pistol was emmmmm....a bit small ee, but never mind i used just a stick to push it with my hands....works just fine

[mikahanau]

You are realy fast

Where did you get the green glue in germany?


I work on my studio since 72 weeks, and there are still some weeks of work left

Where are you located in Germany?
Maybe i know you from german forums, like www.homerecording-forum.de or musiker-board.de ???

cheers
Mika

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by Sonic_X

so my normal pistol was emmmmm....a bit small ee,

We are so huge over here.

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by mikahanau

You are realy fast

Where did you get the green glue in germany?

I would also be interested to find a green glue supplier in the EU.

If there isnt a decent one I might start importing it myself!!!!

[judah]

GreenGlue in EU

Total Acustica

Never dealt with'em but put the link in my bookmarks for future reference.

Hope it helps.

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by mikahanau

You are realy fast

Where did you get the green glue in germany?


I work on my studio since 72 weeks, and there are still some weeks of work left

Where are you located in Germany?
Maybe i know you from german forums, like www.homerecording-forum.de or musiker-board.de ???

cheers
Mika

HI Mika,
yes i'll do it fast, coz i got free time now + some skills (former times i work as bauarbeiter). I live in Berlin and nope i never was at any German forums, coz my German is good anough only to talk, i still learning gramatics^^ Originaly me from Ukraine.

Green Glue, yes it was a bit a pain to find it...but, i search UK ebay and found one suplyer, his ebay nik is bjornfogelberg and he got tonnes of the Green Glue at his warehouse. Price for the box is 172€. Here the link Green Glue - Box of 12 - Revolutionary Sound Proofing bei eBay.de: Other Pro Audio Equipment (endet 31.05.10 12:05:09 MESZ)

Hope it's helps
Cheers
Jay

[Sonic_X]

The North wall progress..

[mikahanau]

Good idea too look for green glue at ebay

I never had this idea

Nice to see some progress in your room.

cheers
Mika

[Sonic_X]

Summer break is over, now i'm back with full power yeahhhh
Here is some ceiling pics.

[thetalkinghead]

looks awesome. will you be producing some German techno out of there or what?

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by thetalkinghead

looks awesome. will you be producing some German techno out of there or what?

Thanx
Well, your guess is about not so far from the music i do...it's Psychedelic Trance, Progressive Trance and House as well as the Mastering.

[mikahanau]

nice to see things mooving again

[zijon]

hey nice to see another german build, really looking forward to the progress!
I really hope you are not mixing up absorption with isolation. Those are two quite different things.
Sorry to have to break the news to you but you either add another leaf over the rockwool on your ceiling (and wow 30 cm is huge, could of used way less I think) then you have isolation, or you leave it open and you have absorption, and what a dead room it would be my friend.

Consider going with a Double leaf system with multiple layers of Knauff Piano for instance. If this is a standard German basement the ceiling should be made of quite a strong slab of cement so you would really get some good transmission loss out of for instance 14cm of rockwool, resilient channel (or the Knauff version of that) and 3 or 4 layers of drywall. I don't have the numbers here right now but i'm using double layer and it's something like stc 58.


keep up the good work!

[Ethan Winer]

I just wanted to clarify a point about the thickness of absorbers versus the total absorption in the room. What makes a room "too dead" is the total amount of absorbing surface in the room. More specifically, the ratio of absorbing to reflecting surfaces. This is separate from the thickness of the absorbers.

When absorption is made thicker, all that does is extend the absorption to lower frequencies. The general absorption goal in rooms where music is recorded and played is for the absorption to be broadband. So in order to be effective over a wide range of frequencies the absorption needs to be very thick (low end), and have a porous / fuzzy surface (high end).

My personal preference for rooms the size of this control room is to be "mostly dead," at least in the front of the room where you listen. This doesn't mean to cover all surfaces with thick absorbers! Simply adding a lot of bass traps, plus absorption at all of the reflection points including the rear wall, is enough to avoid the most damaging reflections in rooms this size. But having more absorption is unlikely to cause problems.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by mikahanau

nice to see things mooving again

hey Mika Danke^^
Did you found your Green Glue okay?

Originally Posted by zijon

hey nice to see another german build, really looking forward to the progress!
I really hope you are not mixing up absorption with isolation. Those are two quite different things.
Sorry to have to break the news to you but you either add another leaf over the rockwool on your ceiling (and wow 30 cm is huge, could of used way less I think) then you have isolation, or you leave it open and you have absorption, and what a dead room it would be my friend.

Consider going with a Double leaf system with multiple layers of Knauff Piano for instance. If this is a standard German basement the ceiling should be made of quite a strong slab of cement so you would really get some good transmission loss out of for instance 14cm of rockwool, resilient channel (or the Knauff version of that) and 3 or 4 layers of drywall. I don't have the numbers here right now but i'm using double layer and it's something like stc 58.


keep up the good work!

Thanx for the input zijon
The ceiling is done and thanx Mr. Rockwool for the quality product I hear nothing from the barber anymore --> silence, just as i like hihihi
so 30cm normally was for absorption reason, coz with low ceiling like that, this was the only solution. And by luck isolation problem is also gone .....so, now i can roll the fatty and relax a bit

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

I just wanted to clarify a point about the thickness of absorbers versus the total absorption in the room. What makes a room "too dead" is the total amount of absorbing surface in the room. More specifically, the ratio of absorbing to reflecting surfaces. This is separate from the thickness of the absorbers.

When absorption is made thicker, all that does is extend the absorption to lower frequencies. The general absorption goal in rooms where music is recorded and played is for the absorption to be broadband. So in order to be effective over a wide range of frequencies the absorption needs to be very thick (low end), and have a porous / fuzzy surface (high end).

My personal preference for rooms the size of this control room is to be "mostly dead," at least in the front of the room where you listen. This doesn't mean to cover all surfaces with thick absorbers! Simply adding a lot of bass traps, plus absorption at all of the reflection points including the rear wall, is enough to avoid the most damaging reflections in rooms this size. But having more absorption is unlikely to cause problems.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Thank you so much Ethan, you just make my day!

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Sonic_X

Thank you so much Ethan, you just make my day!

We aim to please.

Also, I don't think you need to make the entire room absorbent as shown in your plans. Here's what I suggest: Add all the absorption as shown, and have the rigid insulation on the side walls at least 4 inches thick. Then if you find it sounds too dead when you're done, you can add very thin wood or glossy-painted cardboard over some of the fiberglass. The advantage of thin reflective material on top of thick absorption is you have 100 percent coverage at lower frequencies, but it's not totally dead at mid and high frequencies.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[Sonic_X]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

We aim to please.

Also, I don't think you need to make the entire room absorbent as shown in your plans. Here's what I suggest: Add all the absorption as shown, and have the rigid insulation on the side walls at least 4 inches thick. Then if you find it sounds too dead when you're done, you can add very thin wood or glossy-painted cardboard over some of the fiberglass. The advantage of thin reflective material on top of thick absorption is you have 100 percent coverage at lower frequencies, but it's not totally dead at mid and high frequencies.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

That's soundz like plan --> Thanx a lot Sir

[Sonic_X]

Some more progress...

[PaulMac]

Looking good so far. I'll check back every so often to see how you're getting on.
Good luck

[Freya]

So then what happened?!!

love

Freya