Real Fat Studio (Italy)

[DJMauiMC]

I introduce myself, I am an Italian engineer, I'm finally realizing my dream. My recording studio!
I started work a few months after several months of searching for a suitable place in city center!

Sorry for my terrible English (I use google translate)!


this is the place (as I have been delivered):


I had to tear down some walls:


project implementation:

[DJMauiMC]

bricklaying:

[DJMauiMC]

I wired: the recreation area, storage room, the bathroom!


after several months of waiting, finally, the soundproofing material arrived:


for air circulation, I used the acoustic silencers, and a pipe insulated with mineral:

[mikahanau]

it is looking, like you are building a triple leaf wall between the 2 rooms.
That is not a good idea, when you need good isolation between the rooms.

Are you shure you need floating floors in the studio?

How do you want to setup the control room. What about the acoustic treatment ?

From your drawings i can`t see a complete working concept.

cheers
Mika

[DJMauiMC]

the walls are dividing!
I create a box-in-box system

floating floor

for walls and roof - a sandwich with: rock wool, lead, plasterboard


For acoustic treatment (diffusor and traps) wait to have completed work on soundproofing!

[mikahanau]

You will get some realy bad isolation problems with this design.
It does not matter if box in a box or not. A triple leaf is a no go in terms of isolation.
you can find some info about it here:

Understanding the Triple Leaf effect



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i wish you all the best for your project
cheers
mika

[DJMauiMC]

Thanks for the advice!
the drawing is not clear, but the wall is made of bricks (those hollow inside). so I should have, however, a quadruple air space!

a sandwich: plasterboard and lead, air, wall of brick with double air chamber, air, plasterboard and lead.between plasterboard + lead and the wall, put a double layer of rock wool (I bought pvc mats sandwiches filled with rock wool, rubber-lead, rock wool).

here are some photos of the materials:




sorry for the size of the previous photos, but are used in a forum like this (Italian) where is the automatic resize!

[fossaree]

la mia famiglia è venuta de la reggio calabria , io non parlo italiano benne ... sono nato al brasile . mi piacce tuo studio!

check out my studio construction thread :
recording studio @ a office building

Abracci !!!
tanti alguri amico
;-)

[amishsixstringe]

I hate to break it to you, but the holes in your bricks do not count as an airspace. They are coupled to each other. The brick wall is one membrane. You have essentially created a triple leaf. You will have MORE isolation if you do NOT build the brick wall dividing the spaces. It may be a hard concept to grasp, but you do need to research these things before building. You spent the time to create a sketchup before building, and you wanted to show it to the community, but you should have posted your idea first. You could have saved a lot of time and money.

Neil

[amishsixstringe]

I see that the brick dividing wall already exists. I think you only have a couple options right now if you plan to retain any sort of isolation:

Option 1: Tear down the brick wall that you put up. This will be obviously quite an expensive loss and take some time, BUT you WILL have greater isolation between your two rooms without the brick wall. You won't have to buy more bricks and alter the wall, so it won't cost you more money. Another benefit is that you will actually save space. Your space is quite small. Saving 15cm of floor space will help you a lot.

Option 2: Don't seal off the walls in the studio proper. You will lose isolation from the outside world, but you will gain isolation between your two rooms. You would not have to put an airspace between the brick wall and your gypsum if you do it this way. You could save a tiny bit of floor space with this idea as well.

I'm not sure without doing any sort of testing, but I think the brick wall will actually make your STC worse. Someone might be able to chime in here and say otherwise. I'm by no means an expert, so please talk to some other people and get a few more opinions first. The brick wall might not hurt you that badly, but I don't think is it functioning to help you in this case.

I do wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing your progress.

Neil

[CatInTheFurnace]

Hi

I agree with the posts above about tri-leaf system not helping your isolation here...

Rather than ripping down the brick wall, could the plaster board that would have been the third leaf be green glued or just plaster adhesive bound to it to increase the mass of the wall and mean than no materials have been wasted (since they have already been bought and built)?

I'm no expert which is why I'm here but I hate to see a good wall go to waste.

[CatInTheFurnace]

Reading again, maybe Neil just said this as option 2....hmmm actually, I think he;s talking about something different?

[amishsixstringe]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

Reading again, maybe Neil just said this as option 2....hmmm actually, I think he;s talking about something different?

Yes, that's what I mean. However, be careful. If you use green glue, keep in mind that GG is NOT glue. You still need to use masonry screws to secure the gypsum to the wall if you go this way. The green glue would just be there to act as a dampening membrane. And thinking again, you wouldn't need to leave the wall unsealed from the remaining 3 walls, since you have an uncoupled air space between the brick and control room walls. You would still be coupling your room to the perimeter wall of your building which would decrease your TL to the outside world for that room.

Neil

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

You would still be coupling your room to the perimeter wall of your building which would decrease your TL to the outside world for that room.

Neil

Maybe remove the bricks that are joining the external walls? I didnt see any wall ties so this could be a quick fix/maximum mass/minimum waste option?

And maybe scrap the green glue idea and just add the mass to the wall conventionally as I know how expensive green glue is in Europe....

[amishsixstringe]

Very good idea. I think up to this point that is the best solution. You can rent a masonry saw for a day and just cut a line from ceiling to floor without actually removing any bricks. Much less mess.

Neil

[DJMauiMC]

For fossaree: siamo praticamente paesani! ma quant'è piccolo il mondo! di reggio calabria precisamente che zona? complimenti per il tuo studio!

For amishsixstringe and CatInTheFurnace: Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, now is late to break down the wall! I need to open as soon as possible for work!

Here in Italy I saw studies (like my small and large) designed like mine to exploit the existing rooms without masonry!

I was never even raised the issue by engineers who have followed me in the design! What is more, however, the plasterboard laminated to lead supports its metal grids which, in turn, are decoupled from the walls through the acoustic decouplers building! Like these:


For the floating floor, however, I will use a pad (subsonic) with mineral fillers, and decoupling with rods to the roof (with the same system of walls).
So anyway, I have a mechanical decoupling of the room .... I can not believe that given the quantity and diversity of sound-absorbing materials, the total decoupling of mechanical floors, walls and ceiling (total lack of mechanical vibrations in the walls of the palace) and isolation of audio cables and electrical passages (through ' use of polyurethane foams), fails to achieve a sound insulation of all respect!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by DJMauiMC

For fossaree: siamo praticamente paesani! ma quant'è piccolo il mondo! di reggio calabria precisamente che zona? complimenti per il tuo studio!

For amishsixstringe and CatInTheFurnace: Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, now is late to break down the wall! I need to open as soon as possible for work!

....total decoupling of mechanical floors, walls and ceiling (total lack of mechanical vibrations in the walls of the palace) and isolation of audio cables and electrical passages (through ' use of polyurethane foams), fails to achieve a sound insulation of all respect!

Hi dude,

It's your studio so do what you think is best. The only thing I dont understand is how your brick wall is de-coupled from the outside wall?

If you have a look at th attachment, what is to stop sound from outside passing through your brick wall? It is a waste of money spending all that time and effort on the floor if the sound is coming through the walls?

What we are suggesting is taking the last brick which joints the walls on the yellow line out and then adding your plasterboard to the wall (pink line) so you do not waste materials. It shouldn't take much time. Not demolishing the whole wall since it is built already.

Both amish and I are building studios at the moment as you can see so we have done a lot of research on this matter (I think A said 2 years on his thread and I'm the same)

Engineers and Acoustic engineers are different things...It seems like a number of people (3 so far?) have found 2 problems that you can EASILY fix for free at this stage so its worth really thinking about it!!!

Anyway, we're just trying to help you build the best studio possible and I honestly think that with 1 or 2 days extra work you will have a massive difference. The choice is yours, please, anyone feel free to step in if this advice sounds wrong.

cheers

tom

[DJMauiMC]

Dear friend, first I thank you very much for your interest and your advice!

The wall is connected to structure and is a classic brick wall divider! serves to divide the two environments.
Assuming that the idea is to create a box-in-box structure, completely detached from the original. so ... the original floor is covered, first with a carpet soundproofing and then with a second wooden floor, filled with rock wool and lead. Above this floor is applied a second PVC carpet, with over a linoleum floor.
The secondary walls (plasterboard laminated to lead) are spaced through decouplers mentioned earlier (and stuffed with rockwool).
The secondary roof (also in plasterboard laminated to lead) is distanced from the roof through the original decouplers similar to those cited above (and stuffed with rockwool).

So, ignoring the project in 3D (I'm not good with drawing), think of the classic situation: the original ceilings and walls (mechanically decoupled) flottuante floor, roof original + second roof (mechanically decoupled)

I hope to be able to explain!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by DJMauiMC

Dear friend, first I thank you very much for your interest and your advice!

The wall is connected to structure and is a classic brick wall divider! serves to divide the two environments.
Assuming that the idea is to create a box-in-box structure, completely detached from the original. so ... the original floor is covered, first with a carpet soundproofing and then with a second wooden floor, filled with rock wool and lead. Above this floor is applied a second PVC carpet, with over a linoleum floor.
The secondary walls (plasterboard laminated to lead) are spaced through decouplers mentioned earlier (and stuffed with rockwool).
The secondary roof (also in plasterboard laminated to lead) is distanced from the roof through the original decouplers similar to those cited above (and stuffed with rockwool).

So, ignoring the project in 3D (I'm not good with drawing), think of the classic situation: the original ceilings and walls (mechanically decoupled) flottuante floor, roof original + second roof (mechanically decoupled)

I hope to be able to explain!

I understand what you are saying but I think you have misunderstood the room within a room idea slightly in that you don't need a "brick wall divider". The first box is your existing building, then you make a box within it (the control room). You don't need to split your first box (the existing building) in 2...

PLEASE read this againUnderstanding the Triple Leaf effect Once you have read it, look at your plan and see how many leafs are in your wall. I see 3.

I can't explain it any other way than I have already. Please can someone else jump in if they can/for my sanity.

And have a look at what Amish has done so far on his building... That guy has skills and is building to a high quality so his opinion is worth listening to.
Amish Electric Chair Studios - Athens, Ohio

You'll probably end up with an ok studio either way but the laws of physics would suggest it could be a little better at no extra cost.

ciao

[DJMauiMC]

Ah ok!
thanks again for your patience! but unfortunately I almost started work on soundproofing, following the initial projects that some engineers have considered valid!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by DJMauiMC

Ah ok!
thanks again for your patience! but unfortunately I almost started work on soundproofing, following the initial projects that some engineers have considered valid!

Enjoy your new studio!!! I'm sure it will be a fun place once its finished which at this rate will be about 2 days.

To quote Andre:

Originally Posted by avare

Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction.

[DJMauiMC]

ahahahahahah...ok thanks!

[amishsixstringe]

That's why I haven't started accepting work into my new studio yet. I'm going to wait until it's done and tested before accepting money from clients. I'm sure they would be glad. I have been doing little side jobs in my home studio still, but taking on work into a studio that isn't even framed yet is kinda risky. I plan to do much testing when my rooms are complete and do everything in my power to tune my rooms before selling my service. How can you say your rooms will be perfect 3 weeks from now when it's not even gotten to the first stage of testing?

I admire your motivation to get this thing complete.

Good luck!

Neil

[fossaree]

La mia famiglia viene da una città chiamata Polistena. Non sono mai stato in Italia. Ma quando incontro i miei parenti, spero di visitare il vostro studio pronto!

I'm just telling my italian friend that my family emigrate to Brazil from his area , but I've never been there before !

[DJMauiMC]

For amishsixstringe: In fact, I never said "perfect" but "valid" ... it is different! Consider also that we are talking about the insulation to the outside .... the acoustic treatment will be later and will work closely to that effect!

For fossaree: Polistena è un bel posto...non è proprio dietro l'angolo però @;-) Spero, però di conoscerti di persona e di farti vedere il mio studio!

[DJMauiMC]

Today I completed the first floating floor! For reasons of space, I soundproof a room at a time!

Photos:

[Akoppenheffer]

Congratulations. Progress like that feels great.

[fossaree]

Bravo !
Is there any estimated date to finish it up ?
abracci

[DJMauiMC]

TNX! I hope 20 days to the end of soundproo!

[Tonio Ruiz]

it'll come up great, congrats and best of luck

your studio is pretty much like mine size and space wise, I did what I could on the mass of the wall dividing live room from control room, it wasn't made like it should but it turned out great, It is not absolutely isolated but I can work just fine with no problems what so ever

so, you'll be a very happy man!!!