The Furnace Studio Build

[CatInTheFurnace]

Hello gearslutz!

If you are reading this in early 2010 you are at the start of our studio build journey and hopefully you’ll stick with us along the way and we won’t have gone mad by the end of it. If you’re reading this in 2012 then you can skip to the last page and see if there are any newspaper clippings about the sound engineers in Bulgaria who went on killing spree after yet another delay in building work!

So here’s the background. We (Tom and Rysia) left our cosy lives and jobs in London behind about 7 months ago and moved to Bulgaria with a dream of building a medium sized, full residential studio to offer an alternative to bands who are just signed or unsigned that will fall under most peoples budgets. Some people work well under financial pressure (as in they are thinking about all the money they are blowing every time the drummer misses that fill) but we want to make somewhere that your “average” band can come to for 2-3 weeks and really get loose. We as engineers and music lovers didn’t want to get stuck recording the same genre or scene and thought that the best way to avoid this would be to get out of the scene completely and try and lure people somewhere different. Obviously we’re not the first people to come up with this idea but we have put our money where our mouth is at least! We’re hoping to get bands from across Europe and all sorts of different styles.

It’s a bit of a gamble to say the least and on top of the studio building we are also refurbishing our house, we have a 1yr old baby and 2 dogs Maybe we’ve bitten off more than we can chew here?

Well here’s where we are so far. After months of searching for the perfect building within our budget and in the right place we’ve FINALLY bought the place. We had set up a makeshift studio in our house for some remix work and it’s become a bit of a permanent fixture… We were hoping to have almost completed the build by now. On the plus side, our daughters studio training has really taken off.


The building is 2/3 stories and has a bit over a 110m2 footprint. At the moment the ground floor is split into 3 shops which we will knock doorways (and maybe windows) through. We will be closing off the fronts and this will become the studio. We are also planning on removing the ceiling on one half of the live room to make it double height which means we will lose a bit of space in the residential bit but there is still about 170m2 of residential space as we are going to convert the attic (The 3rd storey)

Building methods in Bulgaria are a bit different from what most of us are used to and luckily we have built up a lot of knowledge while working on our house. The first thing to note is that they don’t go for foundations here (or at least didn’t in the old days) and tend to build onto massive footings. The advantage of this from our point of view is that our walls are already about 40-50cm thick on the ground floor (that included internal walls!). There are also a lot of downsides to Bulgarian methods like the lack of damp proofing courses in favour of the “air it out” method. That’s not really ideal when your making airtight rooms (except for HVAC which we don’t want to leave running all the time) We are also limited by the current wall layout because we cant afford to change it at this point so we have opted for a building which was almost identical to our fantasy studio sketches.




The current floors in the shops are concrete laid over the old wooden beams and boards (welcome to Bulgaria) so we are looking at the possibility of taking the whole lot out, levelling the crawl space below the floor and putting in a concrete slab which would give us an extra 70-100 cm of ceiling height.

Anyway, here are some pictures of the building and rough sketch up plans. We are going to go into more depth but the sale was only confirmed today and we haven’t had a chance to really get stuck in with the tape measure, camera and double check our initial measurements. We didn’t want to get to excited and carried away designing until we had confirmation of the sale. Obviously, its not all going to be square and parallel in the live room!!

This is our first post as we haven’t ever had anything to say or ask thanks to this amazing community (and no reason to become a member since we’re the strong silent types). We’re looking forward to getting to “know” some of you who, lets face it, are legends in these parts. You know who you are, knightfly, rod, john, aaron and co! We were thinking of writing this offline and posting a complete start to finish in 1 go as it’s almost as frustrating following the builds and wanting them to be finished as actually doing it but we are going to need help!

We are not building The Bridge (oh if only) and we don’t have an endless bankroll so sometimes we will have to sacrifice certain things but hopefully at the end of it we’ll have a great and different place to record filled will weird eastern European instruments as well as accommodation in a nice setting. Maybe one day a pool in the garden ( I don’t think Greg has a pool at The Bridge but maybe there are plans for an Olympic or orchestra size one on the roof?…hmmmm)

More photos to follow, and we apologise to Jules in advance if any questions slip in between the pictures! We’ll try and be good, honest!

Its hard to know where to start this post (the building is easy as there are broken windows and the roof leaks) so ask away any questions you might have about our crazy project/life!!

Anyway, wish us luck, we’ve got a lot to do, oh and another baby on the way!!!

[Syncamorea]

This will be fun to watch. Good luck!

[Brenton]

I'm up for it, lets do it.

Great looking building.

Good luck.

[CatInTheFurnace]

it's on!

[David-Morpheus]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

it's on!

good luck with it keep in mind you will overshoot your budget at least 30% ... plan for the worst hope for the best.

BTW I would dump the piano room and extend the CR ... I am finising my CR at the moment and the ammount of space that was eaten up by all the acoustic makes me wish It would be at least 1m wider and broader ...

I have one question - it's an old building - are the walls healthy (I mean not wet)? I don't think they are insulated agains moisture soaking up from the ground. Double check on thast because it's a pain in the ass to get that fixed and if you won't take care of that you will have a studio smelling like and old dog.

can't wait for the pics

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by morpheuzrecords

I have one question - it's an old building - are the walls healthy (I mean not wet)? I don't think they are insulated agains moisture soaking up from the ground. Double check on thast because it's a pain in the ass to get that fixed and if you won't take care of that you will have a studio smelling like and old dog.

can't wait for the pics

Hi Morpheuz. Thanks for chipping in. We would love to extent the ctrl room but due to the MASSIVE construction of the walls its going to be a real nightmare to move them/support the walls above. The internal walls are at least 40cm solid brick thick. Our dream is that if the studio works as a business we will, one day, remove everything from the inside and start fresh as we love the building and the location. But steel joists, huge labour costs etc mean that that isn't possible right now. We are going to work with the walls we have for now and if the second live room isnt getting used then maybe look at turning it into a studio lounge (even though there is plenty of lounging area in the garden and accomodation).

Mositure is going to be a problem we need to resolve. The back walls are actually underground up to the level of the 1st floor so on 2 of the 4 studio walls we have mother earth to help wth sound isolation. The down side is of course the damp. The underground bits are build of 50cmx50cm hand cut stone but its obviously the joins that are going to cause the problem. Might a chemical damp proof course be the solution here? What do people do in basements other than just running a dehumidifier? Below are some pictures of the basement stones (which a BIG!) and also the attic space which we havent quite planned out yet but will be 2 large bedrooms. We are planning on using the existing chimneys to run our HVAC through up to the attic and you can sort of see where the chimneys come out in the attic pic.




The building methods here may well scare some people half to death but we are desensitized due to months of exposure!

Ciao

[judah]

First of all good luck with your project, you always need a bit of luck with this kind of things.

Second, are your sketches the actual situation you got there? If not, first of all, put down a sketch with some thickness to those walls. You're gonna loose so much space because of (I suppose) double walls.

Third, while working with Sketchup, use the birdseye view as much as possible with no perspective. It's easy to get fooled by perspective. Every room you draw put a coda piano (from the Components windows) into it, you'll immediately "get" if the room is big enough or not (this sounds like a silly suggestion but it's not, a coda piano is quite a big object and it helps you out big time understading spaces).

Fourth, good luck.

[inlinenl]

the train to Transylvania just leaves in 1 day and three hours .........

great building ... good luck !!!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by judah

First of all good luck with your project, you always need a bit of luck with this kind of things.

Second, are your sketches the actual situation you got there? If not, first of all, put down a sketch with some thickness to those walls. You're gonna loose so much space because of (I suppose) double walls.

Third, while working with Sketchup, use the birdseye view as much as possible with no perspective. It's easy to get fooled by perspective. Every room you draw put a coda piano (from the Components windows) into it, you'll immediately "get" if the room is big enough or not (this sounds like a silly suggestion but it's not, a coda piano is quite a big object and it helps you out big time understading spaces).

Fourth, good luck.

Hi Judah!

Yes the walls on the sketchup images are already there except the wall seperating the vocal booth from the entrance hall. At the moment there is a staircase here which we will remove so that the studio and accommodation are seperate. The entrance to the accomodation will be at the rear of the building. We will make a more accurate sketchup with thickness etc on it but as I said on an earlier post, we only got the sale confirmed yesterday so didn't want to get carried away designing until it was ours!! Anyone who has been outbid on a building at the last minute will know why...it's heart breaking!

Hopefully since the internal walls are already about 40cm thick, we should have pretty good seperation already (right?) but we will get in their with a Db meter once the front is closed off and see what its like in real terms. We don't know how much more mass we are going to need at this point but I am hoping that we will be pretty well isolated already as the place is built like a bomb shelter and we have earth helping to iso the long back wall and the left habd side wall. All speculation at the moment in a way though because we need to get the readings and play some instruments to really know!

Keep the posts coming. Its really nice to be able to talk to someone about this as there isnt a big gearslutz scene in rural Bulgaria!

ciao

Tom

[David-Morpheus]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

Hopefully since the internal walls are already about 40cm thick, we should have pretty good seperation already (right?)

Well not exactly. You need mass air and mass. As a 40cm brick wall provides substantial mass it will still transmit the vibrations to the next room. It all depends what STC are you shooting for. And remember that the rooms must be airtight.

Did you read Home Recording Studio Build it Like the Pros from Rod Gervais ? If not do not build an inch before you go through the book. Plan and doublecheck everything before you start otherwise you will run into trouble. It's not hard to build a studio, it's hard to design it properly.

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by morpheuzrecords

Well not exactly. You need mass air and mass. As a 40cm brick wall provides substantial mass it will still transmit the vibrations to the next room. It all depends what STC are you shooting for. And remember that the rooms must be airtight.

Did you read Home Recording Studio Build it Like the Pros from Rod Gervais ? If not do not build an inch before you go through the book. Plan and doublecheck everything before you start otherwise you will run into trouble. It's not hard to build a studio, it's hard to design it properly.

Hola!

Of course I have read Rod's book I wouldn't dare post otherwise as I have seen the consequences!! The problem I have with guessing STC of my walls is that they are a bit unique and aren't on the chart in the book or on John Sayers or SAE. There is a post about a barn conversion on one of the forums (sorry I have forgotten which one) where the guy has similar thickness of walls and the words bomb shelter are mentioned. Might have been in Ireland? I remember that chap and others suggesting that in a rural location this should be more than enough isolation. I should also correct myself and say this isnt a brick wall but solid stones/rocks (as you can see in the pic above in the basement) which having tried to chisel one in my house, I can say without doubt are a lot denser than your average red brick!! I feel sorry for the guy(s) who cut these things by hand 100 yrs ago!!

You have raised a very good point though, the purpose of the studio... This will be mainly recording rock and guitar based bands. I imagine that a lot of it will end up being tracked 1 part at a time as is often the case these days in peoples never ending quest for perfection but we also wanted to have more than 1 live room so that people can track "live" but take a bit of the pressure off with some seperation to enable easy re-takes.

The neighbours out here are a bit more chilled out and I don't think I will ever have to worry about translating the words "noise pollution". Its only sound coming in and between the rooms that needs to dissappear. Part of the reason that the vocal booth is between the live and ctrl is to add an extra sound buffer as I guess that these 2 will see the most action.To be honest, people are so much more chilled out here that I could probably set up a band playing 8am-8pm every day as it is right now and people would be chuffed to get to watch some free music through the window.

You are spot on about airtight as well of course. The room only being as good as its weakest part which is where our old friend plasterboard comes in to play!!

All this talk is making me want to do some building. I might go down and unscrew something to make myself feel busy.


Tom

P.s: I forgot to say, you're build looks awesome! I have been following it for a while!

[David-Morpheus]

Than it's all good. Just make sure to really plan everything to the smallest detail and always think of the big picture. I've been doing pre-build preparation, reading books and forums and so on for almost 2 years and now when I am nearing the end there are a couple of things I would do different.

Hope you will turn that place into a wonderfull studio were you can focus on the most important aspect of it - making MUSIC

Good luck and don't forget to post the construction pics

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

P.s: I forgot to say, you're build looks awesome! I have been following it for a while!

Thanks for the kind words

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by morpheuzrecords

I've been doing pre-build preparation, reading books and forums and so on for almost 2 years...

Preparation is king, hard work is queen and ROCK is the offspring!

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

The building methods here may well scare some people half to death but we are desensitized due to months of exposure!

Classic, but true. Familiarity breeds a lax attitude. What plans do you have with the electrical system? Modify, overhaul or hope for the best? With respect to crawl space moisture, do you know if there is a drainage tile system exterior to the foundation? I've had good success with exterior sump systems to dry up old basements and crawl spaces in wet areas. They are a pain in the ass to install, but are good for the building.

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

Classic, but true. Familiarity breeds a lax attitude. What plans do you have with the electrical system? Modify, overhaul or hope for the best? With respect to crawl space moisture, do you know if there is a drainage tile system exterior to the foundation? I've had good success with exterior sump systems to dry up old basements and crawl spaces in wet areas. They are a pain in the ass to install, but are good for the building.

Electrics... everything will be new. Not a single wire, socket or light fixing shall remain. We did this in our house as well to get it up to normal spec. When we bought our house, one of the light fixtures was being earthed to a curtain rail. Honestly, I'm not kidding!! I can't find the picture right now.

We're going to run a seperate system to the accomodation as to the studio so we will have 2 lines coming into the house. The studio lights will probably run off the accomodation board to keep the energy for control room etc "clean"

What do you mean by drainage tile system here? Forgive my ignorance! Any suggestions on keeping the damp at bay are welcome!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

, do you know if there is a drainage tile system exterior to the foundation? I've had good success with exterior sump systems to dry up old basements and crawl spaces in wet areas. They are a pain in the ass to install, but are good for the building.

Ok, I have been researching this. My guess is that is doesn't have this at the moment (always best to assume the worst). We would like to install the drainage tile system as it seems like a sensible and long term fix. I have a few quick questions though:

- The rear of the building is submerged completely to the top of the "ground" floor. How deep do we need to dig in the d tile? If it has to be to the base of the ground floor then we are looking at diging 3 meters down at the back of the building

- If we can move the majority of the surface water from the back garden (which slopes towards the building) around the building with clever landscaping and gravel beds, might this do the job?

I have to say that I didn't know about drainage tiles before today as basements are pretty uncommon in England, especially in newer buildings.

God I love this forum!

[Torea]

No build info from me, but I couldn't help but say this...

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

Maybe one day a pool in the garden ( I don’t think Greg has a pool at The Bridge but maybe there are plans for an Olympic or orchestra size one on the roof?…hmmmm)

You kiddin? It'll be underneath! That's why it's called "The Bridge" haha. Badum psh.


... Sorry couldn't resist but say a corny joke

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by galens5

... Sorry couldn't resist but say a corny joke

We'll let you off..... this time....

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

- The rear of the building is submerged completely to the top of the "ground" floor. How deep do we need to dig in the d tile? If it has to be to the base of the ground floor then we are looking at diging 3 meters down at the back of the building

- If we can move the majority of the surface water from the back garden (which slopes towards the building) around the building with clever landscaping and gravel beds, might this do the job?

I've built a sump system that was over 3m deep and due to the location, it had to be done manually (hand, meet shovel and pick...). It was gruesome work, but it was successful. This sump system was ~1m outside the foundaiton wall, and it went ~0.5m deeper than the bottom of the foundation footing. We ran multiple tiles into the sump and the sump tile was at a corner of the building. The feeder tiles ran along the two wet walls of the house. I checked in a few months ago and after 18 years, the system is still working great and has had only one pump change.

I've also built a couple of passive drain tile systems that fed into the local sanitary sewer. One of them was in a situation similar to what you describe - I take it the back of the building has soil almost 1 floor higher than the front? In this case, you might not have to go as deep, although the deeper you can go the better. Having feeder tiles near the surface and below are a good idea. In addition, you can install another tile in your crawl space. I've also helped do one of those and it was a major hassle because the crawl space was short and difficult to work in until we had a hole large enough to crawl down into. My back hurts just thinking about it. Here in the US, you an go to Home Depot and rent a gas powered trenching tool. Even if it doesn't reach down as low as you need, you can use it to cut a couple of parallel trenches, then move the loosened soil manually. But really, this kind of work is best hired out to a pro with a side hoe and a ton of experience. Be sure you know where all of your existing plumbing, gas and electrical enter and exit before you dig.

Glad to hear that you're starting fresh with the electrical. Dedicated studio circuits rule. Balanced power rules even more! Good luck! This project will be a blast to watch.

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

I've built a sump system that was over 3m deep and due to the location, it had to be done manually (hand, meet shovel and pick...). It was gruesome work, but it was successful. This sump system was ~1m outside the foundaiton wall, and it went ~0.5m deeper than the bottom of the foundation footing. We ran multiple tiles into the sump and the sump tile was at a corner of the building. The feeder tiles ran along the two wet walls of the house. I checked in a few months ago and after 18 years, the system is still working great and has had only one pump change.

I've also built a couple of passive drain tile systems that fed into the local sanitary sewer. One of them was in a situation similar to what you describe - I take it the back of the building has soil almost 1 floor higher than the front? In this case, you might not have to go as deep, although the deeper you can go the better. Having feeder tiles near the surface and below are a good idea. In addition, you can install another tile in your crawl space. I've also helped do one of those and it was a major hassle because the crawl space was short and difficult to work in until we had a hole large enough to crawl down into. My back hurts just thinking about it. Here in the US, you an go to Home Depot and rent a gas powered trenching tool. Even if it doesn't reach down as low as you need, you can use it to cut a couple of parallel trenches, then move the loosened soil manually. But really, this kind of work is best hired out to a pro with a side hoe and a ton of experience. Be sure you know where all of your existing plumbing, gas and electrical enter and exit before you dig.

Glad to hear that you're starting fresh with the electrical. Dedicated studio circuits rule. Balanced power rules even more! Good luck! This project will be a blast to watch.

Syncamorea.... Thank you SOOOOOO much! we're going to try a passive system and improve on it later if required. We wouldn't have known about it without you so I can't say thanks enough! We'll post some pictures of the trench as we dig it and let you know how it goes.

I'm hopefull about the outcome of this and its much better than any other advice we've been given!!!

You are a LEGEND!

Tom and Rysia

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

Syncamorea.... Thank you SOOOOOO much!

You're welcome!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Hello all.

Things went a bit quiet there due to some paperwork blah blah boring stuff that we were sorting out. Anyway, everything is fine and we’ve re-measured and re-planned the building.

First of all, thanks to Jeff and Rod for their PM’s of wisdom and encouragement as well as everyone else who has hoped on board the thread already.

So… here is what it looks like without snow and a bin in the way

And here is looking up from the front door at the balcony. We’re going to put a coffee table and chairs inside the double doors and possibly make an extra access point to the kitchen so that this balcony gets plenty of use.

Although its not technically studio stuff here are some of the accommodation rooms:

This will be the lounge. We are going to try and repair/restore the original plasterwork as we think its awesome.

The lounge (with will also have a sofa bed in it) is entered via the kitchen so here is the view from the lounge to the kitchen.



Here is the bedroom at the front of the house


Here it the back bedroom. We were originally going to knock up from the live room into this bedroom however we have reconsidered. Once we drop the floor in the live room (by about 1.2m) we will have a big live room by most peoples standards and more importantly, it will be over 5,000 cubic feet so counts as a big room by Rod’s standards. We can always look at going up later but it’s not a big priority at the moment. Having spent a lot more time in the room I’ve realised that it’s a lot bigger in real life than it looks on the computer…


So here is the live room just before I stared making a little hole in the wall.
Luckily for us, the building was all used as one before it was split into 3 shops so there are bricked up doorways between all the rooms. Because we aren’t to sure about making huge holes in the existing walls at the moment we are going to use glass doors to give line of site between the 3 bigger rooms and the vocal booth will be enclosed.


From the 38% listening position this should give us a pretty good view and mean that we can make eye contact with the drummer in the live (although this will mean looking down on him or her) and most of the second recording room which we are now calling the wood room as that’s what it will be.

Here is the space below the live and the floor that will be removed

[CatInTheFurnace]

Here is an exploratory hold in the wall into the live where one of the doors will be. I bought a sledge hammer and HAD to use it.


So here is the bare bones plan of the current walls and the planned walls.
We will have to put steps into the live room and to make it less severe we are removing the existing floor and steps in the entrance hall so it will be dropped by 60 cm.


So our first job is going to be getting the lounge cleared and clean so that it can become a make-shift site office/playroom. I still have a job so cant be building all the time and Rysia speaks better Bulgarian than me so really we both need to be on site with the internet available for my work.
We’re going to try and get the accommodation electricity supply in asap so that we can avoid generator hire and run temp power to the downstairs for lights and powertools. We need to have power so that we can brick off the front and really find out what’s going on dB wise.
Another thing top of the list is installing our drainage tile and guttering. The weather from here until about October should be hot hot hot so you can look forward to some sunburnt fatigued looking studio builder pics in the coming months.
Work should start in a week or so. We don’t currently have a proper kitchen in our house and we are replacing our whole plumbing system (including new bath, toilet etc) so we want to get that installed first and we can do the tiling and painting bits in the evenings.

Suggestions, questions, comments, always welcome! It feels a bit strange that its actually happening after so long looking for a building, missing out on buildings etc. It will probably feel even stranger when we have builders on site expecting us to know what we want them to do! Oh and speaking a different language.

[CatInTheFurnace]

p.s: We will be making wheelchair access ramps for the studio both inside and to get to the rear entrance of the accomodation however they will not be fixed, they will be removable. They will also come in hand with any heavy equipment.

[Nolan Walker]

Good luck with the build!

I really like the design of older buildings, and yours is very cool. It will be a lot of work, but I have a feeling that this will turn out to be one very nice studio!

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by Nolan Walker

I have a feeling that this will turn out to be one very nice studio!

THANKS Nolan!! I hope so!

In the last 3 hours we have been tweaking the plan. Mainly the stairs to the live room where we have moved the door from being on the live room side of the wall to the hall side in our heads (sorry not on the plan yet). This means that we can get 2 steps down in the wall so there will only be 50cm or so sticking out into the live room!! The door will open into the entrance hall and will be hinged on the control room side if that makes sense.

Here's a question for you.. Has anyone built any acoustic treatment into a staircase before? Are we creating a trihedral corner that needs treating here or are we just getting anal? (can I say anal?)

The new model:

[amishsixstringe]

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't get too excited about it. If you're overly concerned I guess you could make the steps hollow. Use 'stair stringers' like you would for an outdoor deck. That way there is no solid protrusion coming from the wall.

It looks like you have a great place to build, and I wish you the best of luck!

Neil

[CatInTheFurnace]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't get too excited about it. If you're overly concerned I guess you could make the steps hollow. Use 'stair stringers' like you would for an outdoor deck. That way there is no solid protrusion coming from the wall.

It looks like you have a great place to build, and I wish you the best of luck!

Neil

Hi Neil!

I've been watching you! Loving your work!

Yeah, we are over thinking everything at the moment. Its fun... I think.

We've already started looking at the geekslutz bit and planning what we're going to make and mod. When is it "done", will we ever stop?

Good luck amigo!

[amishsixstringe]

Over thinking is ok. Much better than having to tear things up when you're done. I've spent a ton of time thinking and rethinking things and still have things come up that I couldn't have imagined. Just know where to draw the line. Good job so far. I'm really looking forward to your build.

Neil

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by CatInTheFurnace

This place has such a cool vibe. It kinda reminds me of the French Quarter in N'awleans. Looks like you have plenty of things to keep you busy for the near term.