The birth of my studio ... so to speak

[Magickman]

Weird. I don't know how that double post happened. My apologies!

-MM

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by Magickman

Using a rectilinear lens will render all the strait lines strait.

You can also use the distortion filter in Photoshop.

[Magickman]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

You can also use the distortion filter in Photoshop.

With some minor artifacts. Probably a non-issue at the intended display size.

[vindawgy]

Originally Posted by chrisofer

OK, here are the first pics of the desk. I made a mistake in yesterday's post, the left to right length is 96". Starting on the legs tomorrow. We plan on putting the whole thing together and then taking it apart to paint, stain, etc. and then building it again IN the control room as it will not fit through the hallways ... It is looking better than I thought it would. Getting really excited!

More pics soon.

Hi Mate,

I was looking at this thread last night whilst i was doing some recording and i have to say that it looks alot better (and probably sound better) than where i was sitting..Good work.

Can i ask if you have the plans for the desk as pictured? and if so can i grab a copy so i can build something similar?

thanks again and i hope the clients love the studio as much as all us slutz here!!

Thumbs UP!

Vin

[chrisofer]

Hey All. Thanks for the suggestions on the pics for the studio. I'm learning more about Photoshop and will see what I can do with them. Also, the guy who took the pics is looking to see if he can find a few better lenses to rent.

The first "band" session for the studio is now in the bag. I really like how everything turned out. After I got over the initial panic attacks because I didn't know how to do something in protools, everything went fairly smooth. Fortunately, Ted Pennington was in town and he helped me by explaining things to me (in a way that I can understand ... Thanks Ted!), showing me some great shortcuts (that would have taken me forever to find in the "protools shortcut" PDF) and also an objective way to maximize work flow.

While doing the sessions, I quickly determined several things that I need to get (i.e. music stands, clip board, etc.). The kind of stuff that you really don't think about during the construction and integration phases of the project.

A problem that I discovered that I was not fully prepared for has been solved, thanks to Marc Meeker. Here was the problem. I had designed the studio for the ability of a guitar player to be in the control room with his/her pedal board and a amp/head while the cabinet was in the iso booth/live room/where ever. This situation applies to me. The guitar player that came this weekend, had a combo amp. Marc has suggested getting a Little Labs STD. I have not researched this yet but I'm sure it will work exactly like I need it too. I will report on this in this thread as well.

I've set up some templates in protools so that I can have some kind of standard starting points for future sessions. One of the things that I don't like is ... when I need to update a template, I have to create a new session make the change and then save as a template again. I looked in the reference guide and could not find anything that would make this process easier. Any tips would be great.

I am currently designing a back-up plan (for session data). I believe I will be using a RAID system from Glyph. I will put it in detail here in the thread once it is done.

Today, i did a basic shoot out between five of my mics. The Blue Bottle Rocket, Telefunken AK-47, 3 Zigma Chi w/67 capsule, 3 Zigma Chi w/47 capsule, and 3 Zigma Chi w/251 capsule. Of course, all of these mics are totally amazing, but I found that I liked the 3 Zigma Chi w/251 capsule going through the Vintech X73i for the track I did today. The next track that I will be doing will be a different style song so I will have to experiment with the mics again. Ted helped me with the shoot out and tracking so maybe I will be able to get him to provide his take on these mics as well.

As far as plans for the desk ... well ... there are none. I have a hand drawn picture that my wife and I used to build the desk. I will do my best to get some sort of electronic plan together and post it here on the thread. Thanks for asking about it!

Sorry I rambled on so much, but I just wanted to get everything in.

Talk to you soon!

[chrisofer]

I forgot to mention this ... I got a couch for the control room. I'm sure if I like it or not because it takes up a lot of room. At least it's comfortable. I will get pics tomorrow.

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by chrisofer

I believe I will be using a RAID system from Glyph.

That's nice gear, but overpriced in my opinion. I've been using a Seagate Black Armor 4TB NAS in RAID1 and it's been fine, although slower than I'd like. I have a friend that uses one of these:

HP MediaSmart Server EX495 | HP® Official Store

He's got a couple of 2TB HDs in his and has it remote from his studio, doing automated backups and it's pretty snazzy and affordable. I think that will be my next step. I would not recommend running a RAID5 after all the horror stories my IT friends have told me over the last few years. Drives are so cheap, it's RAID1 or 10 for me.

I wish I lived closer. I could do awesome studio pics for you with my incredible photo gear and limitless talent...

[vismund624]

Forget about HD backups. You should backup to tape. Its more reliable and cheaper in the long run. LTO5 is coming out but LTO4 has been around and there's some cheaper stuff on the market now.

[tedpenn]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

That's nice gear, but overpriced in my opinion. I've been using a Seagate Black Armor 4TB NAS in RAID1 and it's been fine, although slower than I'd like.

I believe we're talking apples and oranges here. Chris is considering (and I am recommending) the Glyph GT062E as the primary audio drive that Pro Tools will be using. This is a completely different application than a RAID that is used for offline backup/archival purposes. The requirements for a drive that Pro Tools will read from/write to are much stricter than those for a backup system.

As published by Avid (here), Pro Tools requires drive speeds of 7200rpm or higher, eSATA or Firewire (for Macs), and certain Oxford 9xx chipsets. Although Avid does not currently support any type of RAID drive, Glyph guarantees compatibility and has done pretty extensive testing. Their test results can be seen here, and show track counts that are nearly identical to their non-RAID drives. After some confusion with another client (who was getting incorrect information from Full Compass), I personally spoke to a tech at Glyph who verified that these drives do indeed work very well in a PT environment, and that they have thousands of people successfully using them. Shortly thereafter, I remotely configured and tested a GT062E on a clients machine and have had no problems at all.

The only reason I can confidently recommend the Glyph RAID (against Avid's qualifications) is that a company like Glyph is has done the testing, stands behind them, and provides a fantastic warranty. Other companies (like OWC) may have similar guarantees/testing but not that I've seen.

In short, if you're using a RAID drive as your primary audio drive in a professional environment, at least one of the two manufacturers better support it (either Avid, or the drive manufacturer), or you may end up very frustrated if/when things do go wrong. For a hobbiest, those risks may be more acceptable, but at such a modest price difference, why not go with what's tested.

To zoom out a bit (and derail the thread temporarily- sorry), the biggest advantage, by far, of the Glyph RAID 1 setup is that you don't have to think about it! You have a continuous mirrored backup that simply takes care of itself. This cannot be overstated. I have had such a hard time convincing clients of the merits of regularly running backups as they dump countless amounts of time and money into a project. Data recovery can run into the thousands of dollars (call and price it sometime). This advice to run backups, of course, comes with the added surprise bonus to them that they need not one, but two drives.

For musicians that are recording themselves at home, or folks that are just getting started, they may already have plenty to think about just trying to use Pro Tools. And, I'm not just talking about amateurs. There are plenty of professional session players out there that may not be very tech savvy, and who may know only the very basics of how to get around in PT. Why should they they have to learn and remember to use backup software every time they sit down to record a single note, when this solution now exists?

I am excited about the development being done in this area and will be considering either the Glyph GT062E, or another RAID solution the next time I go to purchase a drive for myself.

[vismund624]

Yeah running an online mirrored backup raid like the one Ted Pennington is ideal. My suggestion for the tape was for achieving b/c buying more and more hds eventually becomes expensive. The only other manufacturer of hard drives that offers the same compatibility- or actually better than glyphs that I've seen is CalDigits, their specs can be seen here CalDigit - Fast, Reliable, and Secure Storage Solutions

I currently work in the movie buisness and many DITs I work with highly reccomend these.

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by tedpenn

Why should they they have to learn and remember to use backup software every time they sit down to record a single note, when this solution now exists?

I totally understand where you're coming from, and when I set up an imaging or video workstation, I usually set up and internal RAID1 on a PCIe card (as opposed to the RAID solutions that commonly come with PC mobos). I like that solution because I'm not recording video live to the PC.

But make no mistake, a RAID1 is slower than a single drive of the same specs. I like to record audio onto a 10K RPM internal drive, then back up onto an external drive. (Yes, I have also gone the SSD route) I have a friend that use a setup like you describe with a Glyph RAID1 array and he has not had flawless operation, but maybe he is set up wrong, although he's consulted with Gylph. I just want all of the write bandwidth I can get and I haven't seen an external drive setup that can compete. Good luck with the Glyph!

[Magickman]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

I totally understand where you're coming from, and when I set up an imaging or video workstation, I usually set up and internal RAID1 on a PCIe card (as opposed to the RAID solutions that commonly come with PC mobos). I like that solution because I'm not recording video live to the PC.

But make no mistake, a RAID1 is slower than a single drive of the same specs. I like to record audio onto a 10K RPM internal drive, then back up onto an external drive. (Yes, I have also gone the SSD route) I have a friend that use a setup like you describe with a Glyph RAID1 array and he has not had flawless operation, but maybe he is set up wrong, although he's consulted with Gylph. I just want all of the write bandwidth I can get and I haven't seen an external drive setup that can compete. Good luck with the Glyph!

It's weird. I record onto plain old 7200 RPM FW400 drives at 96KHz, and I routinely play back 60-80 tracks from a single drive and never have a hitch. Am I really that lucky?

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by Magickman

It's weird. I record onto plain old 7200 RPM FW400 drives at 96KHz, and I routinely play back 60-80 tracks from a single drive and never have a hitch. Am I really that lucky?

A single FW drive is faster than a RAID1 FW array if the drive specs are identical. I keep hearing Clint Eastwood answering your question. But I don't own a 44 Magnum.

[tedpenn]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

But make no mistake, a RAID1 is slower than a single drive of the same specs.

This is certainly consistent with what I've been told over the years, but I can find no published test data for transfer speeds for the GT062E running in RAID 1
(only RAID 0, which is obviously faster). The best I have seen is the testing that reports Pro Tools track counts at various edit densities. I'm attaching images of the results for Glyph's GT050Q (standard 7200rpm drive) and the GT062E running in RAID 1. While not identical, the track counts are pretty darn close. Additionally, the tech at Glyph ensured me that I would experience no noticeable slow down that would affect workflow in PT. Obviously, the proof's in the pudding, and real world feedback over the long run will tell the whole story. I just set up an LE system for someone with a GT062E in RAID 1, and so far so good, running 20-30 tracks with a few edits etc. We'll see how it goes as the track counts get higher.

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

I have a friend that use a setup like you describe with a Glyph RAID1 array and he has not had flawless operation, but maybe he is set up wrong, although he's consulted with Gylph.

I would love to hear more about his particular experience, and any other folks that have been using the drive for a while. Of note: There is an older version of the drive that Glyph made for a while (GT062, without the "E") that has different (worse) test results. Is it possible he was using that slightly older model?

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

I just want all of the write bandwidth I can get and I haven't seen an external drive setup that can compete. Good luck with the Glyph!

eSATA would get us a bit closer to matching the performance of an internal SATA setup (and is certainly faster than firewire/USB), and Avid now supports it, but of course, internal SATA remains the fastest option if speed is your only concern. Unfortunately, for most Pro Tools users this must be balanced with other criteria such as portability, reliability (and now the option for redundancy in the case of RAID 1), compatibility with other (sometimes older) machines, and the ability to daisy-chain multiple drives (which is not possible with eSATA). So with those in mind, FW800 seems to be the best option all around, and the ability to show up to just about any studio in town with a FW drive and know that it will work outweighs any concerns regarding speed.

As mentioned, we'll have to see what the user experiences tell us over the long run with the Glyph RAID. I haven't seen many user reviews, but the review in the Aug/2010 Recording Magazine is very positive. Take it with a grain of salt, and read what you will into whatever advertising relationships etc. may be in place there, but it makes a lot of sense to me. The last few lines of it mirror my current opinion/position well:

Originally Posted by Aug/2010 Recording Magazine

I didn’t come close to maxxing out the capabilities of the GT 062E at my place. It is good to know that it was built to handle many more tracks and realtime demands than I can throw at it. Glyph keeps testing its products with a variety of DAWs, so if you tell them exactly what your demands are, they will know what you are talking about.
Sure, we can all buy small and inexpensive 1-Terabyte drives for all kinds of non-critical purposes, but for real- time data exchange where the slightest hiccup would be a disaster, something as solid as the GT 062E is a must.

[tedpenn]

Originally Posted by chrisofer

Today, i did a basic shoot out between five of my mics. The Blue Bottle Rocket, Telefunken AK-47, 3 Zigma Chi w/67 capsule, 3 Zigma Chi w/47 capsule, and 3 Zigma Chi w/251 capsule. Of course, all of these mics are totally amazing, but I found that I liked the 3 Zigma Chi w/251 capsule going through the Vintech X73i for the track I did today. The next track that I will be doing will be a different style song so I will have to experiment with the mics again. Ted helped me with the shoot out and tracking so maybe I will be able to get him to provide his take on these mics as well.

Sure thing- I can chime in on the experience w/ the mics. I think the biggest surprise for me was how impressed I was with all of the 3 Zigma Chi mics. Especially considering the two great-sounding tube LDCs we had them up against (Bottle Rocket Stg II, and AK47), I was really blown away. The 251 really shined on Chris' voice.

It'd be really interesting and informative to hear them up against their vintage tube counterparts. I have no presumption that they'd sound identical, but would wager they would certainly be in the same ballpark. All in all, my first impression of the 3 Zigma's is that they are totally pro and sound fantastic, especially at their price points. Our shootout has me wanting a pair!

[Magickman]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

A single FW drive is faster than a RAID1 FW array if the drive specs are identical. I keep hearing Clint Eastwood answering your question. But I don't own a 44 Magnum.

I wasn't referring to RAID. I was referring to the assumed need to record to 10K RPM drives.

RAID is about redundancy, which I entirely understand the need for.

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by Magickman

I wasn't referring to RAID. I was referring to the assumed need to record to 10K RPM drives.

RAID is about redundancy, which I entirely understand the need for.

In some instances, yes. RAID0 is not redundant, but it is fast. Personally, I like RAID1 for highly reliable redundancy and RAID10 for a great balance of speed and redundancy.

Christopher: sorry for the side track. I'll stop now.

[chrisofer]

No worries on the side track. I find the information provided during some of the side tracks is valuable to all.

After much research, I have decided to go with the Glyph GT062E setup. The RAID capabilities were the deciding factor. I found a GREAT deal on eBay. NIB 319 + 17 dollars and change for shipping. Cheapest out there (unless you have a family member in the business). I should receive this is a few days.

I also needed a solution for the the guys who like to record in the control room and have combo amps. After talking to Marc Meeker and reading a few posts here on GS, I have just purchased 2 of the Little Labs STD's.

Session work continues to come in but my Pro Tools learning curve is still a vertical line!! I would like to thank Ted Pennington for answering every question I have had.

I don't like the couch I have ... so much so that I have not taken a picture of it ... it will probably go back.

Have a GREAT day!

[Jeffrey Hedback]

Well Chris...

As you know, I was notified yesterday that we've made the print edition and are to be included in the forthcoming Mix Magazines Class of 2011. I thought that the people who've watched your build along the way would like to know as well.

Thank you!

Stonewall Studio to be honored in Mix Class of 2011

[chrisofer]

Hey Everybody!! I just wanted to post a quick update on the studio. As previously noted, My studio made the Class of 2011 in Mix Magazine. This is VERY VERY cool to me. Certainly more than anything I could have possibly imagined. Special Thanks to Jeff Hedback for a great job.

I just ordered a pair of Vintech 573's. I'm really looking forward to giving them a whirl. The thread here has some really good information. Check it out here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...s-pre-d-i.html

I also just purchased the V-Control app for the iPad. It seems to work well with my system, although I have only had it for about 15 minutes. I'm going to play around with it and will post some results. Right off the bat I had to disable one of my MC Mix controllers. This is a small hassle, however, I will only be using the iPad when I am recording my stuff in the booth. It is an inconvenience, however the convenience is great.

Overall, my learning curve is starting to look more like a curve with protools, mac, compressors, eq's, etc. Still have plenty to learn.

Talk to you soon!